GUILTY Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 *Arrest* #20

[Warshawski]

I can't quite make out what Ian was saying in his final comments where he said she had become a victim of his kindness?

This was how I interpreted it - and I will preface this by saying that I believe Erin’s motive for these murders was / is her need for Control and the Power she believes she holds over others. ( she was over having to pretend, she was over ‘that family’ - them having access to her kids /having a say / expectations / going to church etc. ……. So she exercised her power, she took control and she got rid of them.)

I think Ian not only recognised her need for control but he also saw her unrepentant satisfaction in having exercised that power over him & his family. She set them up and then they were at her mercy. Yet even then she refused to help them; she looked down on them as if they were ‘nothing’ as she watched them, helpless and dying.

All 4 of those lunch guests became victims of Erin’s power & control. As did their extended family members who are left grieve, to ponder and to try to find balance and a semblance of recovery.

Ian fought with everything he had ( and lost) to be here as a representative of his 3 much loved family members who didn’t survive Erin’s lunch.

I’m sure Ian sees it as God’s will that he’s here as their representative.

I believe he understands that there is a power from genuine forgiveness in that it will bring him a sense of peace. No longer is he a Victim of Erin as she holds no power over him.

Instead, she is now wondering & flailing, in a place where she has no control & no power … with a long & hopeless stretch ahead.

Ian generously offered her advice & Hope - be honest, repent, be remorseful, have a shot at gaining inner peace, and perhaps a lighter sentence.

As a very good christian being, his prayers I think are powerful and Ian is moving on .. the tables are turned & Erin is now the victim - hoping for her salvation.

IMO.

 

[Warshawski]

RSBM BBM

I'm not sure what she meant by this.

I suggest she’s not advocating for sentences to be served concurrently.

In Qld there are additional set minimums for multiple murders, but not in Vic as far as I’m aware.

However attempted murder would be a separate sentence.

So possibly prosecution is prepared to accept 30 years non-parole of the murders + 15 non-parole for the attempted murder of Ian. .. just as an example and my opinion.

 

[FPoulet]

I don't think barristers have ever been accused of having scruples. They are essentially hired guns and (unless subject to a no-win, no-fee agreement) they get paid regardless of the outcome.


A criminal lawyer can defend someone they believe is guilty since there is a distinction between “legal guilt” and “factual guilt.”

How Can A Criminal Defence Lawyer Represent Someone Who Is Guilty?

How Can A Criminal Defence Lawyer Represent Someone Who Is Guilty? A common question people tend to ask about criminal lawyers is if they can still ethically defend someone even […]

kpwlawyers.com.au

/

It is the backbone of a strong criminal justice system to have defense counsel even for the most loathsome criminals. It is important that the system, including prosecutors and police, are held to the highest standards. If they breach rights or do things improperly, and they are not called out about it, then they will continue to do that and it will affect others… potentially including you or someone you love. In my view, criminal defense lawyers are not amoral, but rather doing necessary and important work, even in the face of public criticism, and sometimes even threats and danger. They are among the bravest of counsel and generally have a very strong belief in the importance of the rule of law — which filters to other legal matters too. If you do not have a robust reliable criminal justice system, you do not have a robust and reliable legal system. And if you do not have a robust and reliable legal system, you are not going to have a robust and reliable democracy.

 

[Warshawski]

That trust with food is going to be completely shattered, too, and even to repair that is going to take some serious counselling

It seems this food concern is far wider than just her / their children.

A friend was telling me the other day that they were offered leftovers to take home from somewhere, and the kids were ‘we’re all good thanks’ ….. when quizzed later it’s because they don’t trust the food from others ! (lucky they trust it at home I guess ) Talk about rippling effects !

Simon’s statement re the impact on the children is unquantifiable…. and inexcusable for anyone, let alone their mother, to be the instigator of.

People talk about them moving, name changing etc. - but on reflection I don’t advocate for that. The best chance for them to lead healthy lives long term I think is to be mentally & emotionally supported / mentored by extremely qualified practitioners in this field, along with the love of Dad ( who can now freely be a Dad ) and other family members.

 

[Warshawski]

Since the Menendez brothers haven't killed anyone for 36 years, and are still deemed too dangerous to society to be released, I fail to see how EP can be considered any less dangerous.

I put this argument to someone on the weekend. At least the Menendez brothers owned up & provided a reason. There’s been none of that from EP.

 

[Warshawski]

I don't see the self-loathing. She is entitled, arrogant, grandiose, superiority complex, and nasty and punitive. She seems to be the opposite of self-loathing.

The only reason she hid herself from her 'friends' (photos, etc) was because she revelled in the asymmetry of power it provided, IMO. She liked to control every narrative and everyones perceptions of her, for controls sake, not self loathing IMO.

If there was any doubt for me about her guilt, originally, when I was still thinking it all through - When she released that media statement she denies she leaked, I absolutely knew she was guilty because she was trying to manipulate the publics perceptions of her through doing so. It was her way of controlling the police and public, IMO. This is exactly how she functions day to day.

IMO

Even though I’ve not had a personal experience or involvement with her, I understand your comments & have a similar opinion.

However I also get where Monstradamus is coming from.

It’s possibly that in dealing with her self-loathing, she developed a fake persona where she saw herself as, and became, all powerful & in control of everything and everyone.

IMO her sense of that was clearly displayed by her actions & demeanour when she took the stand in her trial. She was rude, arrogant, unconcerned & unrepentant - even of the outcome, with no need to admit deliberate guilt!

For that reason, I doubt Erin’s ability to ever be rehabilitated, and it’s why I think she must spend the rest of her life ‘away’. She’s a threat to society, certainly to me because I know I’d p*$$ her off !

 

[Warshawski]

View attachment 610987
Patterson (pictured leaving court on August 25)

Grim details emerge about Erin Patterson's isolated prison life

Patterson, 50, was found guilty of poisoning three of her in-laws - and attempting to kill another - with a lunch laced with death cap mushrooms in July 2023.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Ahh - thank you Marg.

I was searching the pics yesterday as she arrived & got out of the van, but just couldn’t get the right angle.

What a fall

 

[Susjay]

She won't have

@Marg944 when I saw that picture this morning it made me smile. Made my day

Thanks. I didn’t see the handcuffs when she arrived at court. They were covered by her sleeves. The handcuffs are visible when she steps out of the van. Perhaps she thought the photo wouldn’t reveal them. Not great for her children to see their mother handcuffed, but she chose this path.

 

[Susjay]

I guess via prerecorded/offline material.

Contributing to group forums and discussion pages for courses. Too much a risk.

 

[Susjay]

I agree. I can't see any evidence of self-loathing either.

I would say she loathes her image but not herself. She would prefer to distance herself from her actual image. I don’t think she associates herself with her own photo.

 

[Moll]

Contributing to group forums and discussion pages for courses. Too much a risk.

I've mentioned earlier being a tutor for two prisoners with the Open University in the UK. They had all the course material but they could not contribute to any forums or discussions. I would imagine this sort of arrangement may still be possible.

 

[IBR]

„The defence has drawn attention to the harmful conditions of prison isolation, which Patterson has endured for approximately 400 days.

Supreme Court Judge Beale has said he would give “weighty consideration” to her prison conditions in determining the sentence, noting Patterson’s prison conditions do not “sound very humane”.“

I agree that EP should get LWOP for her crime and I agree that she forfeited any right to special or better care than what is considered humane conditions . I wish they would would have fixed conditions in Dame Frost much sooner, so her prolonged solitary confinement couldn’t be used as an argument for leniency, but I fear it’s too late and she’ll get discounts on her sentence due to it. Judge Beale won’t discard the fact that the conditions she’s held under aren’t lawful and that he didn’t get a guarantee that they will get better in the near future. Mandy did a good job pointing things out, once again.

Erin Patterson is a triple murderer. That’s no excuse for inhumane prison conditions

Prison conditions should comply with human rights obligations and avoid cruel, inhumane, degrading treatment of prisoners.

theconversation.com

 

[packetgravy]

I find it interesting that NOW we hear from Mr Mandy of his agreement to the suggestions that Erin poisoned her lunch guests in what was a deliberate & planned occurrence.
And he agrees that the lied about her post-lunch behaviour, including lying about being unwell herself.

None of this is or was News to him, as he had every bit of evidence that the prosecution was bringing to trial - yet at that stage he was prepared to get up and argue her innocence.

I said I found it interesting, but to be honest I find it amoral. … each to their own I guess, in choices of how to earn a buck.

If Erin were to sniff out even the smallest inkling of prejudice or moral discourse from Mandy during his representation, there would be grounds for appeal.

Defence are there to uphold the law and are vital to the integrity of the trial system.

 

[packetgravy]

Even though I’ve not had a personal experience or involvement with her, I understand your comments & have a similar opinion.

However I also get where Monstradamus is coming from.

It’s possibly that in dealing with her self-loathing, she developed a fake persona where she saw herself as, and became, all powerful & in control of everything and everyone.

IMO her sense of that was clearly displayed by her actions & demeanour when she took the stand in her trial. She was rude, arrogant, unconcerned & unrepentant - even of the outcome, with no need to admit deliberate guilt!

For that reason, I doubt Erin’s ability to ever be rehabilitated, and it’s why I think she must spend the rest of her life ‘away’. She’s a threat to society, certainly to me because I know I’d p*$$ her off !

I work in this area, rehabilitation does require a (genuinely) willing and accountable participant.

imo

 

[Detechtive]

I wonder then how they would do those university courses in jail then, as I imagined they would be online courses?

The old school way, with textbooks and computers without internet.

 

[Kemug]

„The defence has drawn attention to the harmful conditions of prison isolation, which Patterson has endured for approximately 400 days.

Supreme Court Judge Beale has said he would give “weighty consideration” to her prison conditions in determining the sentence, noting Patterson’s prison conditions do not “sound very humane”.“

Well, guess what? Being fed deathcap mushrooms is even more harmful than prison isolation, and is also "not very humane".

 

[iamshadow21]

DBM

 

[IBR]

Well, guess what? Being fed deathcap mushrooms is even more harmful than prison isolation, and is also "not very humane".

No it’s not, but that’s not the question. I still think that Mandy will get parole for her, due to the current situation in Dame Phyllis, which I’m pretty sure hadn’t been achievable as easily, were the conditions there better or could a clearer timeline of when conditions will improve and in what way have been given.

 

[SouthAussie]

No it’s not, but that’s not the question. I still think that Mandy will get parole for her, due to the current situation in Dame Phyllis, which I’m pretty sure hadn’t been achievable as easily, were the conditions there better or could a clearer timeline of when conditions will improve and in what way have been given.

The thing that bugs me about any kind of parole is that we are not looking at the murder of one person, or two, but the murder of 3 people.

To me, she should get 3 individual (and not concurrent) murder sentences.
And then tag on extra years for the attempted murder of Ian.

So if there was to be a possibility of parole it would be in 90 years (minimum).

imo

 

[Charlot123]

Think I missed this one

The ‘elaborate’ cover-up after the beef Wellington lunch and the single word that might have changed everything

September 8 is the date Erin Patterson will learn her fate – whether that be life in prison without the possibility of parole, as the prosecution has requested, or life with the possibility of the poisoner one day walking outside of jail once again.

www.smh.com.au

RSBM

An interesting article you provided, thank you.

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