CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - # 1

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  • #441
I thought about Bob when I laid down last night for bed. That seems to be when I do my best pondering.

There was questions about why Fontelle would have changed the locks. FWIW, I asked myself now why would she do that? Here is a few "whys" I came up with---colored by the filter of having watched a lot of upset and bickering over a will and property in my extended family---

1. How many people had keys to Bob's home?
2. How many of those people that had keys were used to letting themselves in when they needed to or wanted to?
3. Did someone enter with a key without regard to Fontelle's privacy? KWIM?

That can make someone change a lock pronto. JMHO.

But then again, who really knows why she chose to change the locks when she did. JMHO.

I wonder if LE knew that the daughters were posting on the internet and I wonder if they got copies of the posts before they were removed from that forum? I wonder if they are deleted forever or could be accessed to be given to the LE, just in case they haven't seen them. No laws broken, just wonder if LE would find anything interesting in them?

We have the late morning and early afternoon of the day Bob went missing. He has SIL with him at the house. There is a time gap, but we don't know how long of one between the last time someone spoke to Bob by phone (LE should have a record of that call once they know who claimed to have made that call IIRC it was Fontelle?) and when the SIL says he returned from running errands to find the housekeeper on the front porch and Bob gone.

Theoretically, that puts the onus of the disappearance on SIL's shoulders. However, we at WS aren't always ready to look at the obvious before we exclude the unobvious first.

My question is (since on AMW the LE has stated the only theory they have ruled out is that Bob met foul play by a stranger) did someone else that Bob knows come to the house in that short period of time. OR did someone come to the house while SIL was there and they both did something to Bob?

It would appear that family members have been given the LDT but we don't know which ones and we don't know the results. FWIW, people fail LDT's all the time but it doesn't result in an arrest.

I read elsewhere yesterday that none of Bob's accounts have had any movement since he has been missing. Did he have unknown accounts (going with Cubby's thoughts here).

I agree that Money could very well have been the motive Susie. It might have been the secondary motive though as well. I'm not discounting anyone's thoughts about this because together I think we can help bring Bob's case back into the forefront. :)

If we go by the assumption that SIL (and possibly another person who was either with him, or joined him at the home, or came while SIL was gone-which the latter leaves a very tiny window of opportunity) was responsible what kind of window of time are we talking about and how far could he have traveled within that time frame? Might give us a picture as to where Bob might be or was if he wasn't moved afterwards. JMHO.
 
  • #442
Dreamweaver I swear I was composing that post when you posted yours! I got a phone call from my Husband and it delayed me hitting the post button. :)

Looks like we were thinking the same thing about the timeline the day Bob went missing....pinch poke I owe you a coke :D
 
  • #443
<snipped>
Your timeline post got me to thinking. Seems to me if the daughters had left Bob the night before on truly bad terms the SIL would not have shown up the next day to help Bob with the repairs and whatever else, don't you think?

What if the previous night's arguement CREATED the SIL's visit the next day...?
 
  • #444
<snipped>
Your timeline post got me to thinking. Seems to me if the daughters had left Bob the night before on truly bad terms the SIL would not have shown up the next day to help Bob with the repairs and whatever else, don't you think?

What if the previous night's arguement CREATED the SIL's visit the next day...?

Could be. So what, the daughters enlisted him to murder their dad? IDK. I know my hubby wouldn't do it!
 
  • #445
Could be. So what, the daughters enlisted him to murder their dad? IDK. I know my hubby wouldn't do it!

Which daughter is he married to I wonder?

ETA: Nevermind I found SIL's name in an article. Thanks anyway :)
 
  • #446
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009

Can someone that has knowledge have a look at all the information listed for Harrod on that site that cloudajo listed?

There is a LOT of filings and such. I can't figure out what's going on. TIA!

There are hearings scheduled into the fall.

Here is one entry:

OBJECTION (TO PETITION TO APPOINT SUCCESSOR TRUSTEES OF THE HARROD FAMILY TRUST) FILED BY HARROD, FONTELLE ON 03/01/2010

There seems to be a lot of activity going on and I don't know enough to know what is going on. (NOTE: the above quoted portion can be found at the second link in the single post I linked to above)
 
  • #447
I think if the daughters had a complete break with their father, the sil would not show up on Monday to help his father in law out.

We, the public, do not know what time sil arrived, what he did when.
If I remember correctly, it was stated that Fontelle knew sil was there when she and Robert talked that morning.
Time unknown.

SNIPPED~~~~~~~

Fontelle and Mr. Harrod did not speak the morning of his disappearance. The last time they spoke was the night before!

Only the daughters have backed up the SIL's story that he was at the house to do repairs.

My goodness....With all of the SIL's "errands" I wonder when he found time to do the repairs.

As Suzyq211 wrote......" What if the previous night's arguement CREATED the SIL's visit the next day"
 
  • #448
[snipped]

1. How many people had keys to Bob's home?
2. How many of those people that had keys were used to letting themselves in when they needed to or wanted to?
3. Did someone enter with a key without regard to Fontelle's privacy? KWIM?

That can make someone change a lock pronto. JMHO.

But then again, who really knows why she chose to change the locks when she did. JMHO.

I wonder if LE knew that the daughters were posting on the internet and I wonder if they got copies of the posts before they were removed from that forum? I wonder if they are deleted forever or could be accessed to be given to the LE, just in case they haven't seen them. No laws broken, just wonder if LE would find anything interesting in them?

We have the late morning and early afternoon of the day Bob went missing. He has SIL with him at the house. There is a time gap, but we don't know how long of one between the last time someone spoke to Bob by phone (LE should have a record of that call once they know who claimed to have made that call IIRC it was Fontelle?) and when the SIL says he returned from running errands to find the housekeeper on the front porch and Bob gone. [snipped]



This is not verified as I can’t link, but hearsay. Seems the daughters and a neighbor had keys before Bob went missing.
  • One daughter posted Aug 11 on another forum that they let Fontelle into the house when she arrived back from Missouri on Wed, Jul 29.
  • Two daughters posted on Aug 11 on two other forums that the locks had been changed.
  • One daughter posted on Aug 13 that Fontelle “has not given us a key yet. She won’t even give a key to the neighbor that has always had a key.”
  • One daughter posted that she went to Bob’s house to change the linens after he disappeared.
According to an article, when the SIL arrived back from Home Depot on Mon, Jul 27, he “let himself in the back door…” so not sure if he had a key with him or the door was unlocked.
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-disappeared3-2010feb03,0,7717364,full.story

IMO, I'd speculate that LE did see the posts before forum was deleted. One daughter posted on Aug 20 that she was guarded with her information as the PPD were reading.

Regarding phone calls, Fontelle last spoke to Bob Sunday evening. Per officials, there was a phone call to Bob at 10:00AM on Monday, July 27, 2009, which is the last time anyone other than SIL verified he was at the house. Bob spoke to the housekeeper that AM - not sure if that was the 10:00AM call though.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-disappeared3-2010feb03,0,7717364,full.story
 
  • #449
  • After Bob disappeared, someone -- police won't say who -- told officers he might have regretted the decision to marry. For three days police thought they were dealing with a case of cold feet.
    [*]A family member told the media that Bob was showing early signs of dementia. Detectives who interviewed his doctor say Bob was of sound mind, Loomis said.
    [*]Bob’s wallet and keys were gone but his car, glasses and credit cards were left behind. He made no large withdrawals from his bank accounts before he disappeared -- and no withdrawals since, said Det. Corinne Loomis, who has worked on the case.
    [*]Police have looked at flight and phone records, bank statements, address books and more to figure out what happened -- to no avail. They're now treating the case as a possible homicide.
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-disappeared3-2010feb03,0,7717364,full.story
 
  • #450
I updated the timeline with the new info from the LA Times article. For focus, I'm just including a few days before he went missing and after.

Sat, July 25, 2009

  • Bob Harrod last seen by a neighbor or neighbors.
Sun, July 26, 2009

  • Afternoon &#8211; Bob&#8217;s 3 daughters went to his house. They argued over finances.
  • According to Fontelle, Bob said his daughters became upset when he told them he planned to include his new wife in the estate. (Note that Bob must have told Fontelle this when they spoke later that evening.)
  • Per daughter PB, &#8220;There was a family meeting on Sunday, it was heated at times, there were NO threats and we all left on good terms.&#8221; (ref IS and since removed)
  • His daughter RB said her father lost his temper. She said he had failed to provide copies of their mother's will, which he was obligated to do because of the financial mechanisms set up by the estate. "It wasn't a heated meeting," she said in a phone interview. "Dad got heated. He's very selfish, very conditional. The day before he went missing in the afternoon, he was going to provide us copies of the will, and we went over to get the copies. He didn't have them."
  • Evening - Fontelle last spoke to Bob by phone while she was in MO. (Note: MO time zone is 2 hours ahead of California.)
  • ~8:00PM &#8211; Sunset in CA
Mon, July 27, 2009

  • Weather: Low temp: 68.5 F, high temp: 91.4 F, avg: 78.2 F; precipitation: 0.0
  • ~6:00AM &#8211; Sunrise in CA
  • 9:30AM &#8211; Bob&#8217;s son-in-law JM arrives at Bob&#8217;s house.
  • 10:00AM &#8211; Per officials, there was a phone call to Bob, which is the last time anyone other than SIL JM verified he was at the house. (Note: was this the housekeeper?)
  • Morning/Time? - Bob talked to the housekeeper on the phone and told her to come.
  • Morning/Time? &#8211; Hearsay: SIL JM went to CVS Pharmacy in Placentia. He purchased soda and paper plates. We don&#8217;t know whether he stopped at CVS on the way to Bob&#8217;s before 9:30AM, or whether he left Bob&#8217;s house in the AM, went to CVS, then returned to Bob&#8217;s house. (Note: There is a CVS Pharmacy on East Yorba Linda Boulevard, which is a 5 min drive from Bob&#8217;s house.)
  • ~11:00AM-12:00? &#8211; Daughter PB says she called her father and heard her BIL say he was going to the hardware store, and her father &#8220;responded in a favorable way.&#8221; (ref IS and since removed)
  • ~2:40PM &#8211; SIL JM left Bob&#8217;s house and went to Home Depot.
  • ~2:55PM? &#8211; SIL JM arrived at Home Depot. (Note: Unknown which Home Depot JM went to. There is a Home Depot at 601 S Placentia Ave, Fullerton, CA 92831-5199. Distance is only 2.7 miles from Bob&#8217;s address in Placentia, about a 6-minute drive. There is another Home Depot located at 2455 E Imperial Hwy, Brea, CA 92821-6114. Distance from Bob&#8217;s address in Placentia is 2.8 miles, about a 7-minute drive.)
  • ~3:00PM? &#8211; The housekeeper arrived at Bob&#8217;s house. The door was locked and nobody answered.
  • 3:04PM &#8211; SIL JM paid for purchases at Home Depot (per time stamp of purchase receipt).
  • 3:30PM &#8211; SIL JM arrived back at Bob&#8217;s house from Home Depot, and the housekeeper was sitting on the porch, waiting to be let in. She told JM the door was locked and nobody was answering, and that Harrod might be taking a nap. JM then went into the house to check, and Harrod was not there. JM told the housekeeper his father-in-law might have gone to visit a neighbor, police say
  • Time? &#8211; Housekeeper cleaned and left the house.
  • 6:00PM &#8211; SIL JM left the house and headed home to Running Springs.
  • 8:00PM? &#8211; Fontelle called Bob&#8217;s house but he didn&#8217;t answer. She called him every 20 minutes until after midnight, when daughter JM called to say her father was missing.
  • Evening/Night - Harrod's daughter JM, SIL&#8217;s wife, called the house, and there was no answer. She called her sisters RB and PB.
  • Evening/Night &#8211; Daughter RB called Placentia Police to do a welfare check at the residence. Officers found the house empty.
Tues, July 28, 2009

  • After Midnight &#8211; Bob&#8217;s daughter JM called Fontelle Harrod in Missouri and told her Bob was missing
  • ~12:22AM PDST - Fontelle filed a missing persons report from Missouri with PPD.
  • Daughter JM gave interview to reporter. Said her husband was with her dad at his home the day before, he went to the hardware store alone, and when he came back, her dad was gone. Asked what time, she replied, &#8220;We&#8217;re thinking maybe 1, noon?&#8221;
  • After Bob disappeared, someone -- police won't say who -- told officers he might have regretted the decision to marry. For three days police thought they were dealing with a case of cold feet.
Wed, July 29, 2009

  • Fontelle returned to Placentia from MO (as previously scheduled).
  • In response to being contacted by family before Bob went missing, an investigator from OC Social Services showed up at Bob&#8217;s house to conduct the second investigation into suspected elder financial abuse. (ref IS and since removed)
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-disappeared3-2010feb03,0,3066456.story
http://www.ocregister.com/news/-214111--.html
http://www.ktla.com/videobeta/watch/?watch=ac85bbd7-919c-45df-8bff-de9407f59354&src=front

Cloudajo posted a good timeline.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009
 
  • #451
Okay, so no neighbor-sighting on Monday...it was SATURDAY.

There is the phonecall to Fontelle Sunday evening, and the unknown call Monday morning. Maybe the housekeeper? Thank you Cloudajo for the timeline!
 
  • #452
It is almost a year since Robert Harrod disappeared.
I will also email the local PPD/Orange Cty media outlets and PPD,
hoping they will do an update on anniversary of his disappearance.
 
  • #453
It is almost a year since Robert Harrod disappeared.
I will also email the local PPD/Orange Cty media outlets and PPD,
hoping they will do an update on anniversary of his disappearance.

Thank you, dreamweaver. I hope they will also.

HOWEVER, this time, I hope they don't focus on the "sweet" story of two people who found one another after 60 years and re-fell in love...blah, blah, blah.

BOB needs to be the focus. He is missing and it would seem someone harmed him. He needs to be found and his killer(s) need to be brought to justice.

I don't care about his wife or his daughters or the money or anything else. BOB needs to be found.
 
  • #454
Thank you, dreamweaver. I hope they will also.

HOWEVER, this time, I hope they don't focus on the "sweet" story of two people who found one another after 60 years and re-fell in love...blah, blah, blah.

BOB needs to be the focus. He is missing and it would seem someone harmed him. He needs to be found and his killer(s) need to be brought to justice.

I don't care about his wife or his daughters or the money or anything else. BOB needs to be found.

I absolutely agree with you.
 
  • #455
Ok - I need to throw something out there:

My DH's Mum passed away 13 years ago. It was not long before his Dad (whom we adore!) was with another woman. In fact, it was so fast, there was a LOT of speculation that they had been together for a while. In any case, she moved into the family home in short order and resides there now.

Now then, Hubby is the oldest of the kids and is the executor of his Dad's will. We don't need or want anything financially. But there are things that belonged to his Mum that he wants. They are not, necessarily, of any value. But they are valuable to him (and sister and brother) and still in that house.

I can pretty much guarantee that, when DH's Dad passes, his children willl NOT get their mother's things from that house. The "new" wife is mean and hateful and has NOTHING of her own. But Dad cannot see that. We shall see.

My Hubby is afraid to tell his own father what is important to him. He doesn't want to seem greedy and he doesn't really want to speak - out loud - about losing his Dad.

That being said, I understand where Bob's daughters are coming from. Has anyone ever considered that the "things" they want have sentimental value? Or are they, because they are women, assumed to be greedy?

The house in which their brand new "stepmother" is living, is the home in which they grew up and where their Mother lived. WHY would they not do everything in their power to protect what their own family had built?

Not everything is black or white.
 
  • #456
Ok - I need to throw something out there:

My DH's Mum passed away 13 years ago. It was not long before his Dad (whom we adore!) was with another woman. In fact, it was so fast, there was a LOT of speculation that they had been together for a while. In any case, she moved into the family home in short order and resides there now.

Now then, Hubby is the oldest of the kids and is the executor of his Dad's will. We don't need or want anything financially. But there are things that belonged to his Mum that he wants. They are not, necessarily, of any value. But they are valuable to him (and sister and brother) and still in that house.

I can pretty much guarantee that, when DH's Dad passes, his children willl NOT get their mother's things from that house. The "new" wife is mean and hateful and has NOTHING of her own. But Dad cannot see that. We shall see.

My Hubby is afraid to tell his own father what is important to him. He doesn't want to seem greedy and he doesn't really want to speak - out loud - about losing his Dad.

That being said, I understand where Bob's daughters are coming from. Has anyone ever considered that the "things" they want have sentimental value? Or are they, because they are women, assumed to be greedy?

The house in which their brand new "stepmother" is living, is the home in which they grew up and where their Mother lived. WHY would they not do everything in their power to protect what their own family had built?

Not everything is black or white.


When you are reading all these horrific accounts of what is happening in this world amongst family members (even on this site ALONE!), how can anyone be surprised or deny that it is possible? IMO ANYTHING is possible!
 
  • #457
I was just re-reading the daughter's posts that were written on another forum shortly after Mr. Harrod went missing.

The distain and contempt for their father shines through many of the posts.

Their lack of concern for his well-being and their lack of motivation to find him also shines through.

They trash his character time and time again. To write what they wrote.........they knew he was never coming home.

Fontelle has always been the person trying to keep this story alive. She is the one that contacts media and asks for help finding Mr. Harrod. The daughters have done the opposite.
 
  • #458
<snipped>
Your timeline post got me to thinking. Seems to me if the daughters had left Bob the night before on truly bad terms the SIL would not have shown up the next day to help Bob with the repairs and whatever else, don't you think?

What if the previous night's arguement CREATED the SIL's visit the next day...?

IMO, this is what I think happened.

I don't believe the SIL went over to help with repairs.

I don't believe anyone in the family was aware that the housekeeper would be going to the house that afternoon.

I wish we knew what her observations were of the SIL that day.
 
  • #459
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009

Can someone that has knowledge have a look at all the information listed for Harrod on that site that cloudajo listed?

There is a LOT of filings and such. I can't figure out what's going on. TIA!

There are hearings scheduled into the fall.

Here is one entry:

There seems to be a lot of activity going on and I don't know enough to know what is going on. (NOTE: the above quoted portion can be found at the second link in the single post I linked to above)

This is my understanding of it - does this help? Search cases on the last name to see these (plus GH Safekeeping Will filing in 2008).

The two daughters filed for conservatorship of the estate on Aug 7, 2009, and then filed to be appointed successor trustees of the Harrod Family Trust on Aug 28, 2009. Fontelle filed for conservatorship of estate on Oct 19, 2009, and filed an objection to their trust petition on March 1, 2010. Various filings and hearings following, then a trial date was set. It appears that on May 5, 2010, the two daughters were appointed as co-conservator of Estate only of RH, and they were also appointed as successor co-trustee of RH.

====
From an Oct 8, 2009 article:
According to records from Orange County Probate Court, Brady and Borcher filed a petition for conservatorship to gain control of their father's assets Aug. 7.

Fontelle Harrod is contesting the action and is still living in Bob Harrod's house, with the locks changed.

Brady said they brought the matter to court because they wanted to free up some of the money to offer a reward for information leading to Bob Harrod's whereabouts, as well as money to pay for bills and maintenance at the house.

The judge ruled against them.

Records pertaining to the case in probate are sealed, and the next hearing is Nov. 10.
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/-214111--.html
 
  • #460
[snipped]
We, the public, do not know what time sil arrived, what he did when.
If I remember correctly, it was stated that Fontelle knew sil was there when she and Robert talked that morning.
Time unknown.

Just to confirm, Fontelle did not speak to Bob on Mon AM, according to articles. It was the oldest daughter who posted on other forum (allegedly/hearsay) that she called and spoke to Bob sometime between 11:00-12:00 on Mon. She said she realized her BIL was there and heard him say he was going to the hardware store, and that her dad "responded to him in a favorable way."
 
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