CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #10

[zwiebel]

I am quite certain it would be.

My children found these amazing and totally cool key rings. One even sings . I am easily pleased

Ah, if you're still here and talking about keyrings, what do you think Bob's looked like? Gifts from grandkids on it? Why no description from family?

 

[zwiebel]

Wow, it was nice to see you pop up there gitana1!

 

[gitana1]

Bumping as I am too lazy to retype all of this. Should of instead made it into a macro.

I'm a tiny bit confused? Fontelle would have benefited more from Mr. Harrod remaining alive, especially as he announced his intention to revise his will and trust to leave his estate to her.

The hairdresser benefited from Mr. Harrod being alive and not at all from his death as any money payments would necessarily cease the moment he died.

As to her alibi, LE cleared her quickly. That's something they rarely do in a case. I have seen zero to suggest they were incorrect.

 

[believe09]

Speaking of keys and alarm systems.

Since the home is part of the trust, by law I believe the owner is to have keys to all doors which have locks.

I know on both rental and business properties I must so I am sure something must be the law in California.

I wonder if the conservators have made sure to request these?

Bob is the owner, Allusonz. I think considering the co conservators the owners is jumping the gun.

Your point regarding HRD dogs-we are privileged to have Oriah and sarx posting with us on the thread-in fact Oriah gave us the benefit of not only her HRD wisdom a few pages back, but she shared a very similar case from her files and she has been sharing with us the location of the phone jacks among other things. I am with you-we are blessed.

I am just as puzzled as you must be, Allusonz, to realize that JeM didnt fufill the work requested of him on that day, and he never returned to finish it either. I agree that Bob was probably exacting-what do you suppose Jeff was thinking in not completing it and then leaving it undone? Do you think he believed his FIL would give him hell and perhaps with hold payment? And would Jeff expect payment for various small projects? That seems mean spirited to me given the generosity Bob showed to not only his whole family, but to AH in particular.

Hmm.

 

[believe09]

I'm a tiny bit confused? Fontelle would have benefited more from Mr. Harrod remaining alive, especially as he announced his intention to revise his will and trust to leave his estate to her.

The hairdresser benefited from Mr. Harrod being alive and not at all from his death as any money payments would necessarily cease the moment he died.

As to her alibi, LE cleared her quickly. That's something they rarely do in a case. I have seen zero to suggest they were incorrect.

I agree gitana. It is perhaps possible that Bob intended to add her to his accounts the very day following his announcement to his family.

 

[believe09]

Searched only 1 time? Do you have a cite for this? Of course though it must be at least a couple of times as I am sure LE would of searched it in the beginning as well as the 2011 time.

The blonde in me. My Straight Jacket (TM Spelling sooner or later) is in need of repairs.

I know it was searched in 2011 as well as LE decided a trip to Fontelle's home state was necessary.

May I have a link to this please?

That was a funny comment on the straight jacket and the blonde thing-:floorlaugh:

 

[believe09]

Yes which begs the question of what exactly her real intentions were.

She has stated that she knew Bob, depending on which MSM article you believe 1 - 2 years prior to their engagement in January of 1950.

This would mean that she was 12 or 13 when they met and 14 years old when they supposedly became engaged. This as well puts Bob into his 20's.

All this information can be found in the MSM links which have been previously provided.

What is your point exactly Allusonz? I am not sure I am following...TIA.

 

[gitana1]

Wow, it was nice to see you pop up there gitana1!

Thank you. I don't get on here enough at all. I have tried to lend my legal expertise a bit but I should do much more because Mr. Harrod has a special place in my heart. I lost my father to cancer and it hurts so much not to have him here. So I don't understand how children could hurt their own father (or cover up what happened). Which is exactly what I think happened.

And I don't care if he was crabby or "selfish" as one of his darling daughters has said. My dad was a difficult man. Yet, what I wouldn't do for one more day.

This story is doubly tragic knowing that Mr. Harrod had just found someone so special - Fontelle. Someone who could help heal his heart from the grief of losing his wife Georgia and his adored dog. At his age, what a blessing! It's almost a miracle! And some evil jerk took that away.

I wish I knew more about wills and trusts though. It seems we really need some legal expertise on that. Although I have done a couple probate cases in the past, I hated them and they were fairly straight forward so I didn't have to know too much. And in my family law cases, I have not had to deal with complex trust issues.

I should really take a course though. We have to amass continued education credits every three years. Maybe I will learn more about trusts to make up some of the credits I need to complete.

But, from what I have seen thus far, what I know about trusts and what my law partner explained to me in relation to this case, (I consulted with him), the people who stand to benefit from his death are the beneficiaries of the trust. Right now they control it and there has been at least one decision thus far that points to one of them (the grandson) being made a pretty significant gift from the trust, a gift it is unlikely would have been made if Mr. Harrod was alive.

And in a couple of years, they can have him legally declared deceased and then, the floodgates will open when it comes to what they will be able to receive.

If anyone has specific questions, though, about the trust, just message me and I will ask some of my wills and trusts friends. In fact, one of my good friends does almost nothing but.

So, let me know!!!

 

[believe09]

From her own lawyers letter to the PPD.

All trespassers are to be charge and he is the person to be notified in her absence as per his clients instruction.

Is there a time specified? So, perhaps, once in 2010 she went somewhere?

I think I need a little more than this.

 

[zwiebel]

BBM

It is necessary when much misinformation has been repeatedly posted.

As for what Fontelle has done with her time it is very important to my way of thinking. If you are going to hold one side to one set of standards but not the other party, something begins to smell rotten.

Then when I see it stated that she is patiently waiting in "their" home for "his" return, when she is not even there I must beg to ask what are the true motives behind many posts.

When I see such a campaign, all it does it simply make me question the motives behind the campaign I have seen occur in this thread.

The documents are from one side. I will hope they are not originating from Fontelle's legal advisor, as various bar associations take the confidentiality of these very seriously.

Well, I think, given I now know FH is partially sighted, cannot drive and cannot use a computer, that she is very, very, very brave. I do think it's a bit unfair to ask what her motives were - get married to Bob? Is that a bad thing?

She married him, moved in with him, he'd gone missing and now she's maintaining her right to live in her husband's home until he's brought home. And she's receiving a few thousand dollars from his multi-million dollar estate to help her? Is that wrong? Wouldn't Bob have wanted that? FH sounds like a nice, sweet lady to me. Best wishes to her and those who care for her.

 

[Cubby]

The court docs as you bumped do NOT say a Declaration of Trust is there.

As well, to repeat <mod snip>:

Wills can be public; Trusts are not.

But please, prove me wrong and setup a paypal acct (as suggested upthreadS) or ask the member who posted she has seen the docs to upload them.

Fair enough?

<mod snip>

~jmo~

It's a public document, shana. You are local to this case as a resident of So Cal. Why not take a drive to the court house yourself rather than demand someone else provide it?

 

[believe09]

thanks gitana1-you have done so so so very much for us. Sorting out the who can do what with the money has been a huge headache. At the end of the day, it doesnt change the motive for me one iota.

Bob's money, whether you consider it to be a lot or a little, is the motive imo. Clearly it was a large enough estate to take this kind of a gamble on. Mrs Harrod is the one with her finger in the dike, God Bless her.

Mr Harrod has a very special place in my heart as well. It is clear he was truly loved by some.

I am still horrendously confused by this timeline, fwiw. I feel, imvho, that I can rule out the 130PM siting, the phantom SUV and I am on the fence regarding the 1130am phone call.

so we have some bookends, or at least I do. Somewhere between 830AM and 1030AM JeM probably arrived. Somewhere between 12PM and 1PM, he returned.

I dont see how the phantom SUV siting fits in here at all.

 

[believe09]

When I see such a campaign, all it does it simply make me question the motives behind the campaign I have seen occur in this thread.

I am going to agree, Allusonz. I see a campaign too. However, I wouldnt tell you how to post or how to think. And I think it is curious to find a repeated charge like the above directed towards people who have done their homework and have chosen to clearly state their opinions. Well sourced opinions.

 

[zwiebel]

Thank you. I don't get on here enough at all. I have tried to lend my legal expertise a bit but I should do much more because Mr. Harrod has a special place in my heart. I lost my father to cancer and it hurts so much not to have him here. So I don't understand how children could hurt their own father (or cover up what happened). Which is exactly what I think happened.

And I don't care if he was crabby or "selfish" as one of his darling daughters has said. My dad was a difficult man. Yet, what I wouldn't do for one more day.

This story is doubly tragic knowing that Mr. Harrod had just found someone so special - Fontelle. Someone who could help heal his heart from the grief of losing his wife Georgia and his adored dog. At his age, what a blessing! It's almost a miracle! And some evil jerk took that away.

I wish I knew more about wills and trusts though. It seems we really need some legal expertise on that. Although I have done a couple probate cases in the past, I hated them and they were fairly straight forward so I didn't have to know too much. And in my family law cases, I have not had to deal with complex trust issues.

I should really take a course though. We have to amass continued education credits every three years. Maybe I will learn more about trusts to make up some of the credits I need to complete.

But, from what I have seen thus far, what I know about trusts and what my law partner explained to me in relation to this case, (I consulted with him), the people who stand to benefit from his death are the beneficiaries of the trust. Right now they control it and there has been at least one decision thus far that points to one of them (the grandson) being made a pretty significant gift from the trust, a gift it is unlikely would have been made if Mr. Harrod was alive.

And in a couple of years, they can have him legally declared deceased and then, the floodgates will open when it comes to what they will be able to receive.

If anyone has specific questions, though, about the trust, just message me and I will ask some of my wills and trusts friends. In fact, one of my good friends does almost nothing but.

So, let me know!!!

Lovely, but bit sad post gitana1. Hugs.

While you're here, I know you're in OC. Any such thing there as companies that will go to the courtroom and print off/collect and mail legal documents to a person?

 

[gitana1]

It is necessary when much misinformation has been repeatedly posted.

As for what Fontelle has done with her time it is very important to my way of thinking. If you are going to hold one side to one set of standards but not the other party, something begins to smell rotten.

Then when I see it stated that she is patiently waiting in "their" home for "his" return, when she is not even there I must beg to ask what are the true motives behind many posts.

When I see such a campaign, all it does it simply make me question the motives behind the campaign I have seen occur in this thread.

The documents are from one side. I will hope they are not originating from Fontelle's legal advisor, as various bar associations take the confidentiality of these very seriously.

I went down to the courthouse and had both entire files copied. They are public records and we are entitled to do so.

Fontelle has NOTHING to do with the attitude on this thread, as far as giving us information or trying to sway things to one side. She is a lady who has said almost nothing and just wants answers as to where her husband went. She has accused no one.

On the other hand, you have three daughters who were given everything, property, money - they were essentially living off their father. But when their mom died, he started changing that a bit. And then, once he met Fontelle and married her, he announced he was adding her to his accounts and that the gravy train was ending. According to his own daughters, that led to a heated exchange.

It was the very next day that Mr. Harrod, an elderly man with bad knees, went missing, on the day his SIL was there, supposedly doing repairs.

Since then, his daughter have publicly criticized their father, have badmouthed him and have done nothing to find him. Nothing really at all. The few attempts like a facebook page, which they were given, they essentially left to rot. When people ask questions about what happened to Mr. Harrod, these same daughters hurl horrible insults and try to shut the conversation down. They called one neighbor (despite the fact that he who said they were nice people and that he did not think they had a thing to do with the disappearance), a pedophile. Why? Because he dared to discuss the case and try to help find answers.

They are the only ones who truly benefit from Mr. Harrod's death.

So, with utmost respect, there is no "campaign" here stemming from anything to do with Fontelle. That is a bit of an insult to the intelligence of the posters on here, especially those like Believe09 who have been tireless in the quest for answers and justice, giving up their own time and resources.

 

[Cubby]

Very, very different from the US!

In the US, the press is extremely vigilant about being used as an arm of law enforcement. For example, when Ted Kaczynski sent the New York Times and the Washington Post his manifesto, both papers had serious reservations to overcome about being used in that manner. In both cases, the papers decided that the greater good had to overcome the drawbacks of being seen to be manipulable in that way, in the hope that someone out there would recognise either the manifesto or the general writing style. Which is what happened; Kaczynski's brother had no inkling that Ted was the Unabomber until the manifesto was published.

In the US, reporters generally destroy any tapes and notes fairly soon after the story is published, within a matter of days, so as to give anyone cited or quoted a chance to challenge any possible mistakes. Television stations routinely destroy their raw footage as soon as the story is aired.

Reporters and their employers generally fight tooth and nail being dragged into a criminal court to support either side. Not because they are innately immoral but because one of the most important principles in the US is the freedom of the press from undue interference by the government, which includes law enforcement.

I rather like the British non-written constitution constitution, which develops in a very organic manner. Like many offspring, the US saw clearly all the drawbacks of the parental system and set out to be different without considering the new set of drawbacks that would arise.

Ted Kaczynski's brother did the right thing by reporting his concerns to LE.
So did the mother of Austin Siggs.
A mother and a brother, we know it could not have been easy for either of them.
Who will do the right thing by Bob in this case?

 

[zwiebel]

Someone should - must - Cubby, before it's too late. This will damage lives for generations unless it is stopped now. Ruins families forever. Look at my signature any interested parties.....I know, wish I didn't!

 

[gitana1]

Let's also address the issue of a Proposed form of order:

A proposed order is a preliminary form of a written order that one lawyer prepares to put in writing an oral decision by a judge.

One-sided docs and those without an official stamp of the court as Filed mean nothing more than 2 sides arguing.

Some docs uploaded here are not official court docs, nor do they tell the whole story from both sides.

Why is that?

~jmo~

Because it is very time-consuming to upload two whole case files.

And, because it may be more important not to tip off certain people as to certain things that may be relevant to the investigation (by uploading and discussing documents here), than to have that discussion on websleuths.

Lovely, but bit sad post gitana1. Hugs.

While you're here, I know you're in OC. Any such thing there as companies that will go to the courtroom and print off/collect and mail legal documents to a person?

There are attorney services who do so. But any person can go in and get public documents for themselves. It's easier to have someone go get them though!!!

Ted Kaczynski did the right thing by reporting his concerns to LE.
So did the mother of Austin Siggs.
A mother and a brother, we know it could not have been easy for either of them.
Who will do the right thing by Bob in this case?

Great question. IMO, there are several people who have answers as to what happened to Mr. Harrod. They should be profoundly affected by that question. If they're not, guess we know where they're going when they die.

 

[zwiebel]

It would certainly be easier for me to have someone go get them gitana1 - I live in Germany!

 

[noZme]

I went down to the courthouse and had both entire files copied. They are public records and we are entitled to do so.

Fontelle has NOTHING to do with the attitude on this thread, as far as giving us information or trying to sway things to one side. She is a lady who has said almost nothing and just wants answers as to where her husband went. She has accused no one.

On the other hand, you have three daughters who were given everything, property, money - they were essentially living off their father. But when their mom died, he started changing that a bit. And then, once he met Fontelle and married her, he announced he was adding her to his accounts and that the gravy train was ending. According to his own daughters, that led to a heated exchange.

It was the very next day that Mr. Harrod, an elderly man with bad knees, went missing, on the day his SIL was there, supposedly doing repairs.

Since then, his daughter have publicly criticized their father, have badmouthed him and have done nothing to find him. Nothing really at all. The few attempts like a facebook page, which they were given, they essentially left to rot. When people ask questions about what happened to Mr. Harrod, these same daughters hurl horrible insults and try to shut the conversation down. They called one neighbor (despite the fact that he who said they were nice people and that he did not think they had a thing to do with the disappearance), a pedophile. Why? Because he dared to discuss the case and try to help find answers.

They are the only ones who truly benefit from Mr. Harrod's death.

So, with utmost respect, there is no "campaign" here stemming from anything to do with Fontelle. That is a bit of an insult to the intelligence of the posters on here, especially those like Believe09 who have been tireless in the quest for answers and justice, giving up their own time and resources.

Well stated git! Thanks for all you bring to the forum. I and many other readers here, appreciate you.