CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #12

[cloudajo]

I think this is an excellent question too; a completely new angle and all sorts of possibilities.

I am not certain of who exactly was present at the heated meeting, except the three daughters. I remember in RB's attorney letter she mentioned SIL and PB getting 'blamed' by Bob for all the harassment (RB didn't call it that, of course). I can't recall the date of that now, but do wonder how things stood between PB, JeM and Bob at the time he disappeared.

RB's attorney letter certainly implied there had been bad feelings, at the very least.

I can't link but it was the 3 daughters and Bob's SIL JeM at the heated meeting at Bob's the day before he disappeared.

 

[cloudajo]

So maybe Bob's car was parked off to the side not to make room for JeM arriving in the morning, but because a vehicle had been parked there during the night? This is where we really need a neighbour who knew Bob well, and where vehicles usually parked at the property.

I don't know if street parking is permitted in Bob's Street - I'll try and find out.

"watchfulneighbor" would probably know what vehicles were there and when. I wonder if "watchfulneighbor" saw JeM or his vehicle the day Bob disappeared.

 

[zwiebel]

And watchfulneighbour also took photographs of things being discarded from the home. So there is an outside chance watchfulneighour took photographs of trash day Wednesday 29 July.

PPD should probably try and have a chat with them.

 

[zwiebel]

That's started me thinking of daughters for some reason. Has JuM ever mentioned what time JeM arrived home that day, after he left Bob's? It was JuM who called FH to tell her Bob had disappeared, I believe. So I presume JuM had been told by JeM when he arrived home. Does anyone know when JuM called FH?

 

[Angelo]

That's started me thinking of daughters for some reason. Has JuM ever mentioned what time JeM arrived home that day, after he left Bob's? It was JuM who called FH to tell her Bob had disappeared, I believe. So I presume JuM had been told by JeM when he arrived home. Does anyone know when JuM called FH?

I believe the police report said Fontelle was contacted by JuM at about 9pm PT.

 

[Oriah]

I wish Oriah was here now. I'd love to hear the input on this.

I'm here.
Yeah, that's one of those triangles. I sure hope it's not Mr. Harrod- but it's someone.

 

[believe09]

And going by JuM's post, where she says she had only been home a few hours on Friday 31st July, it looks like she was in Placentia on Wednesday 29th July to put the trash out.

I dont believe that for a hot minute-I think she is alluding to something else quite frankly.

 

[believe09]

That person has been there a while then. Maybe years?
DNA before Christmas, do you think?

Fortunately, since there is primary DNA on file for Bob, the ME could do a sample to sample comparison if there is any reason to believe that the the UID might be Bob.

This might short cut the process depending on what shape the bones are in.

 

[believe09]

That's started me thinking of daughters for some reason. Has JuM ever mentioned what time JeM arrived home that day, after he left Bob's? It was JuM who called FH to tell her Bob had disappeared, I believe. So I presume JuM had been told by JeM when he arrived home. Does anyone know when JuM called FH?

Or where she was when she made that call? Was she on her cell phone rushing to PPD to change the sheets?

 

[believe09]

And watchfulneighbour also took photographs of things being discarded from the home. So there is an outside chance watchfulneighour took photographs of trash day Wednesday 29 July.

PPD should probably try and have a chat with them.

They were undoubtedly comforted to discover that any trash discarded was done by Bob's immediate family then.

 

[zwiebel]

I know we have thoroughly dissected the timeline for the day of July 27, but the evening and night, not so much. Now I've noticed we have two firm times for that evening as well. Maybe we should try and work out what JeM did after he left the house, and what time he may have arrived home?

3/4 pm?? JeM leaves Carnation Drive (anyone recall if the Disappeared clip says what time he left?)

9pm - JuM calls FH (according to PP report)

9.32- PP welfare check at Bob's, with AH.

If JeM left Carnation at 4pm, that's 5 hours for him to drive home, tell JuM Bob's disappeared, and for JuM to call FH.

Looks like an awfully big gap to me. Does anyone have any online activity for JuM in that period, or statements from other family members saying she or JeM called them?

It would be good to be able to narrow down a time when JuM found out Bob was missing - it might indicate when JeM got home. I certainly like this timeline better than the morning one; it has more solid foundations, I think.

 

[zwiebel]

Reading that police report again, I really can't believe my eyes:

BBM

(FH) was contacted by her daughter-in-law, who told her.......Robert Harrod had not been seen since approximately 11am on 07/27/09. FH said JuM told her that JuM's husband, JeM, had been at Robert and FH's home on 07/27/09 at approximately 11am.

So JuM's first story was that her husband was present when Bob disappeared.

 

[suzyq211]

Reading that police report again, I really can't believe my eyes:

BBM

(FH) was contacted by her daughter-in-law, who told her.......Robert Harrod had not been seen since approximately 11am on 07/27/09. FH said JuM told her that JuM's husband, JeM, had been at Robert and FH's home on 07/27/09 at approximately 11am.

So JuM's first story was that her husband was present when Bob disappeared.

Freudian slip, perhaps? ;-)

 

[believe09]

Reading that police report again, I really can't believe my eyes:

BBM

(FH) was contacted by her daughter-in-law, who told her.......Robert Harrod had not been seen since approximately 11am on 07/27/09. FH said JuM told her that JuM's husband, JeM, had been at Robert and FH's home on 07/27/09 at approximately 11am.

So JuM's first story was that her husband was present when Bob disappeared.

AND that means there was no PB phone call.

 

[zwiebel]

I can't remember what time PB said she made the call, was it 11. 45? If so, isn't little sis wonderful?

First she puts hubby in the house when Bob disappears, then she has Bob taking a phone call from PB after he's disappeared, then she has Bob disappearing at maybe 1, noon? When both the CL and her husband are present. I wonder if it was JuM who asked AH to go and do the welfare check with PPD? And if it was JuM who called RB and PB and told them the story of Bob's disappearance?

All this confusion. Very upsetting for all the people dragged into it. Never mind though, JuM managed not to drag herself into that day's events at all, and that's what counts.

By the way, if Jem's so good at plumbing repairs, why did he have to pay someone to fit his own dishwasher?

 

[believe09]

I can't remember what time PB said she made the call, was it 11. 45? If so, isn't little sis wonderful?

First she puts hubby in the house when Bob disappears, then she has Bob taking a phone call from PB after he's disappeared, then she has Bob disappearing at maybe 1, noon? When both the CL and her husband are present. I wonder if it was JuM who asked AH to go and do the welfare check with PPD? And if it was JuM who called RB and PB and told them the story of Bob's disappearance?

All this confusion. Very upsetting for all the people dragged into it. Never mind though, JuM managed not to drag herself into that day's events at all, and that's what counts.

By the way, if Jem's so good at plumbing repairs, why did he have to pay someone to fit his own dishwasher?

Isnt that something. I agree Zwiebel-JuM seems to be pushing every one under the bus, but I am sure it is just general confusion. I dont know why she would be confused about the timeline and information that her husband gave her, but there you go.

Her son put them all in the spotlight however when he pointed out the heated family meeting to the responding officer.

If this were a TV show it would be fascinating-the fact that these are real live people is chilling. imo.

 

[Angelo]

I can't remember what time PB said she made the call, was it 11. 45? If so, isn't little sis wonderful?

First she puts hubby in the house when Bob disappears, then she has Bob taking a phone call from PB after he's disappeared, then she has Bob disappearing at maybe 1, noon? When both the CL and her husband are present. I wonder if it was JuM who asked AH to go and do the welfare check with PPD? And if it was JuM who called RB and PB and told them the story of Bob's disappearance?

All this confusion. Very upsetting for all the people dragged into it. Never mind though, JuM managed not to drag herself into that day's events at all, and that's what counts.

By the way, if Jem's so good at plumbing repairs, why did he have to pay someone to fit his own dishwasher?

BBM~~~

Interesting question.

 

[Cubby]

I like zwiebel's idea of rebuilding the timeline. Not only for the evening hours zwiebel mentioned, but also additional date information which has become available by way of the disappeared teaser and court documents.

Let's update the timeline Angelo was so kind to post in the media/timeline forum.
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bob Harrod, Time Line and Media Links only


My additions/updates in red.


Timeline

Jun, 2002
• Bob and his first wife GH move from Monrovia to Placentia

Mar, 2008
• Bob’s first wife of 59 years, GH, passed away after a prolonged illness

Apr 1, 2008
• GH – “Harrod - Safekeeping Will” filed in Orange County, CA Probate Court (Case No. 30-2008-00068771-PR-OP-LJC)

Early 2009?
• Bob decided he needed some time away from his daughters and he asked them to leave him alone for six months

Date?
• Orange County Social Services conducted an investigation of suspected elder financial abuse. Family was told that Bob did not want to pursue the issue (ref hearsay from daughter on IS forum)

End of May, 2009
• FH’s daughter, who grew up listening to stories about her mother's first love (Bob), found Bob's number and dialed it so FH could speak to Bob

Tues, June 23, 2009
• FH came to visit Bob in Placentia for the first time, after having spoken by phone for several weeks prior

Sat, June 27, 2009
• Bob called daughter RB to tell her for the first time about Fontelle and that they wanted to get married and hoped the family would be there once they figured out the date, etc. (ref hearsay from daughter on IS forum)

Mon, June 29, 2009
• Bob and FH got married at the Fullerton courthouse without telling either family

Thurs, July 2, 2009
• Bob and FH told their families about the marriage (ref hearsay from daughter on IS forum)

Date?
• Per Bob’s daughter RB, the hairdresser called Bob and said she had no money and no place to live (ref hearsay from daughter on IS forum)

Fri, July 3, 2009
• Daughter RB met FH for the first time (ref hearsay from daughter on IS forum)
• Per Bob’s daughter RB, Bob wrote a check to the hairdresser (ref hearsay from daughter on IS forum)

Tues, July 7, 2009
• FH returned to her Missouri home to pack up her belongings before making the move to Placentia
• KTLA crew interviewed Bob about the reunion with FH
Video: http://www.ktla.com/videobeta/787b96...ambers-reports

Date?
• Bob's daughter JM contacted Orange County Social Services for the 2nd time regarding suspected elder financial abuse (ref hearsay from daughter on IS forum)

Friday, July 17, 2009
-Letter from daughter RB to Bob's attorney

Thurs, July 23, 2009
-PB visit with Bob. (ref PB statement trial transcript hairdresser)

Sat, July 25, 2009
• Bob was last seen by a neighbor or neighbors

Sun, July 26, 2009
• Afternoon – Bob’s 3 daughters went to his house in Placentia
• Police: They argued over finances / money
• FH: Bob said his daughters became upset when he told them he planned to include his new wife in the estate
• Daughter PB: “There was a family meeting on Sunday, it was heated at times, there were NO threats and we all left on good terms.” (ref hearsay from daughter on IS forum)
• Daughter RB: She said her father lost his temper. She said he had failed to provide copies of their mother's will, which he was obligated to do because of the financial mechanisms set up by the estate. "It wasn't a heated meeting," she said in a phone interview. "Dad got heated. He's very selfish, very conditional. The day before he went missing in the afternoon, he was going to provide us copies of the will, and we went over to get the copies. He didn't have them."
• Evening - FH last spoke to Bob by phone while she was in MO
• ~8:00PM – Sunset in CA

Mon, July 27, 2009
• Weather: Low temp: 68.5 F, high temp: 91.4 F, avg: 78.2 F; precipitation: 0.0
• ~6:00AM – Sunrise in CA
• 9:30AM – JM, Bob’s son-in-law, arrived at Bob’s house
• AM/Time? – SIL went to CVS in Placentia in the AM, and he purchased soda and paper plates (rumor/hearsay)
-9:50'sh am time Bob went missing (ref daughter JuM post on her community forum, see 1:50pm July 28 info below)
• 10:00AM – Per officials, there was a phone call to Bob, which is the last time anyone other than SIL JM verified he was at the house. (Ref: This was a comment posted by the reporter/writer of article Adam Townsend, under the actual article) (Note: Was this the call with the housekeeper?)
• Morning - Bob talked to the housekeeper on the phone and told her to come
• 11:00AM-12:00 – Per daughter PB, she called and spoke to Bob during this time. She said she heard SIL (her BIL) say he was going to the hardware store and her father “responded in a favorable way.” She also posted that her number “came up as private.” (ref: NAMUS report published Aug 18, 2009 and August 11, 2009 post on IS forum)
-Noonish - House Keeper arrives to find no answer and no key in mail box. (ref: housekeeper Disappeared teaser/clip)
-12:15-12:30 House keeper states SIL JeM pulled into the driveway to find her waiting and no answer at Bob's (ref: Disappeared teaser/clip)
-Noon - One - time Bob went missing (ref daughter JuM statement KTLV video)
• ~2:30PM-2:40PM – SIL JM left Bob’s house and went to Home Depot (ref OC Register and LA Times articles)
• Time? – SIL JM arrived at Home Depot. (Note: Unknown which Home Depot JM went to. There is a Home Depot at 601 S Placentia Ave, Fullerton, CA 92831-5199. Distance is only 2.7 miles from Bob’s address in Placentia, about a 6-minute drive. There is another Home Depot located at 2455 E Imperial Hwy, Brea, CA 92821-6114. Distance from Bob’s address in Placentia is 2.8 miles, about a 7-minute drive.)
• Time? – The housekeeper arrived at Bob’s house. The door was locked and nobody answered (rumor/hearsay she arrived at ~3PM) (see above with housekeepers statement via Disappeared).
• 3:04PM – SIL JM paid for purchases at Home Depot (time stamp of purchase receipt). It has not been made public what the purchase was
• 3:30PM – SIL JM arrived back at Bob’s house from Home Depot, and the housekeeper was sitting on the porch, waiting to be let in. She told SIL JM the door was locked and nobody was answering, and that Bob might be taking a nap. SIL JM then went into the house to check, and Bob was not there. SIL JM told the housekeeper his father-in-law might have gone to visit a neighbor
• Time? – The housekeeper cleaned and left the house
• 6:00PM – SIL JM left the house and headed home to Running Springs
• Time? – SIL JM arrived home in Running Springs
• ~8:00PM – FH called Bob’s house but he didn’t answer. She called him every 20 minutes until daughter JM later called to say her father was missing
• Evening/Night – Bob’s daughter JM called the house, and there was no answer. She called her sisters, RB and PB
• Evening/Night – Daughter RB posted later that she called Placentia Police to do a wellness/welfare check at Bob’s residence (not confirmed; possible discrepancy). Officers found the house/car secure and no signs of foul play. (dispatched for well being check at 9:32 pm per police report.)
• Evening/Night – Bob’s daughter JM called FH in Missouri and told her Bob was missing

Date? Time?
• Daughter JM went to Bob’s house to “change the linens” (per daughter’s Aug 4th post on ROTW stating that before she went dth to get the house ready, linens changed for he and his wife; she started to call all the local hospitals, coroner’s office, etc.) http://rimoftheworld.net/discuss/166/53721?page=4)

Tues, July 28, 2009
• Time? - FH called the PPD from Missouri and filed a missing persons report (rumor/hearsay time was 12:22PM Pacific Daylight Time - CA and 2:22AM Central Daylight Time – MO) 12:22am Pacific Daylight Time per police report.
• Time? - Daughter JM gave an interview to a reporter in Bob’s house. She said her husband was with her dad at his home the day before, he went to the hardware store alone, and when he came back, her dad was gone. Asked what time, she replied “We’re thinking maybe 1, noon?” The reporter also quotes JM as saying her father is showing signs of dementia.
• 1:50PM – Daughter JM posts on ROTW that her father had been missing for approximately 28 hours (which would have been ~10:00AM on Mon) http://rimoftheworld.net/discuss/166/53721?page=0
• After Bob disappeared, someone -- police won't say who -- told officers he might have regretted the decision to marry. For three days police thought they were dealing with a case of cold feet

Wed, July 29, 2009
• Daytime - FH returned to Bob’s house in Placentia from MO with her daughter (as previously scheduled). Bob’s daughters RB and JM were at the house when she arrived. Daughter PB had been there but left to go to her nephew’s house because of the news frenzy (ref hearsay from daughter on IS forum)
Video: http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Weekend/st...8227798&page=1
Video: http://cbs2.com/local/newlywed.groom...2.1120666.html
• Daytime - In response to being contacted by family before Bob went missing, an investigator from OC Social Services showed up at Bob’s house to conduct the second investigation into suspected elder financial abuse. Daughter RB posted that it was then the investigator found out that their investigation might have been "a day late and a dollar short". (ref hearsay from daughter on IS forum)
• Nighttime - Detective Corinne Loomis spoke to FH at length

Thu, Jul 30, 2009

• LA Time article publishes story – includes reference to what Detective Loomis said about checking surveillance tape at the Home Depot:

"We're going to look into bank activity, identify bank accounts and get phone records," the detective said.

Police will also determine whether any of his movements, as outlined by witnesses in the days before he disappeared, can be confirmed by surveillance tape.

For instance, she said, Harrod's son-in-law told police that he went to a Home Depot on Monday, and when he returned, Harrod was gone.

Surveillance tape at the Home Depot might corroborate that account, or show something different, such as that Harrod was at the business with the son- in-law, she said.
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/lo...-52086697.html

Fri, July 31, 2009
• Detective Loomis stated: "My personal sense was that if he did not return home by dark Wednesday night, we have a big problem," Loomis said. "We didn't ramp up a serious investigation in hopes he would come home yesterday. That was the break point."
• Sergeant Millsap stated they don’t suspect foul play, but they haven’t ruled anything out. "We're looking at it with an open mind," Millsap said. "We're chasing every lead, looking under every rock for him."

Sun, Aug 2, 2009
• Daughter RB posted that Bob was very excited about and looking forward to FH’s arrival. He arranged to have carpet shampooed, patio cleaned, housekeeper in, and a few repairs done, for her homecoming (ref hearsay from daughter on IS forum)

Fri, August 7, 2009
• Petition filed in Orange County Court by PB and RB for Appointment of Conservatorship of Estate Only of Robert Merle Harrod (Case No. 30-2009-00291267-PR-CE-LJC)
• Daughter RB posted on Aug 14 that they filed to obtain trust moneys for reimbursement of F's travel and shipping that Dad was going to pay, and to avail funds to be able to offer a reward. (ref hearsay from daughter on IS forum)

Mon, August 10, 2009
• Daughter RB posted that the cleaning lady, SIL, and all family members had been questioned, and that she was due to be questioned on Tuesday (which would be Aug 11) (ref hearsay from daughter on IS forum)

Tues, August 11, 2009
• Daughter PB posted that “There was a family meeting on Sunday, it was heated at times, there were NO threats and we all left on good terms” (ref hearsay from daughter on IS forum)
• Daughter PB posted ‘I called my dad that morning by telephone, he had obviously been getting quite a few phone calls that morning. Then I realized that my BIL was there and I DID hear him say he was going to the "hardware store". My dad responded to him in a favorable way. I told my dad that I would let him go and talk to him later. That was the last time that I spoke to him. Times vary as I could not tell you the exact time that I called Dad, I gave an approximate of sometime between 11 and 12 and found later it was probably after 11:30 a.m.’ (ref hearsay from daughter on IS forum)

Tues, August 18, 2009
• Bob’s report entered into NAMUS with this commentary in Circumstances section: “He was at home and seemed in good spirits when I last spoke to him somewhere between 11 a.m. - 12pm. His son-in-law was there doing odd jobs as Dads new wife was returning from Missouri on Wed. 7/29/09. Heard son-in-law say he was going to the hardware store. When he returned the housekeeper was waiting outside and Dad was gone. He did NOT take his car, but did have his keys and wallet. No contact or word has been heard from since.”

Wed, August 26, 2009
• Detective Corinne Loomis mentions a search warrant to check phone records: "We're just now winding down the full-court press part of this investigation," said department spokeswoman Detective Corinne Loomis Tuesday. "We're going back and doing some follow-up stuff and documentation. We have a search warrant for phone records to see who he might have talked to that we don't know about."

August 28, 2009
• Petition filed in Orange County Court by PB and RB for Trust Proceedings - Harrod – Trust (Case No. 30-2009-00297798-PR-TR-LJC)

September 2, 2009
• Daughter JM posted on ROTW that she was giving away for free a “Beautiful Oak Display Case 11 ft. L x 3 ft W x 4 1/2 ft tall.” She posts “If you want it delivered please donate $2,000. to ROTW!”
http://www.rimoftheworld.net/discuss/194/55175

September 3, 2009
• Daughter JM posted that the last time they gave away stuff in bulk, her husband had to drive across to the far side of Big Bear with no thanks – hence the reason to offer as pickup only. She posted again that cabinet was worth $2,000 so if delivered she would like ROTW to receive $2,000 as a donation for delivery. She posted the display case was still up for grabs.

September 4, 2009
• Daughter JM bumped her post.

September 4, 2009
• A poster on ROTW posted that they would like the display case and to email them.

September 6, 2009
• Daughter JM posted on ROTW “The display case is gone!”

Wed, September 16, 2009
• Detective Corinne Loomis references result of checking phone records: Loomis said they are close to exhausting all their leads in the case, but continue to do follow-up work. "There is no movement on any bank account or credit cards," Loomis said, adding that Harrod did not have a cell phone and calls made to and from his home before he vanished don't point to anything suspicious.

Thu, October 8, 2009
• Per an article in the OC Register, police cleared the barber and her husband of any connection with the case (Note: Verified on Aug 15, 2010 by an anonymous source to WS mod that the barber and her husband are cleared of any involvement in Bob’s case. LE reviewed receipts and video surveillance which confirmed their story and whereabouts the day Bob went missing.)

Mon, October 19, 2009
• FH filed for conservatorship of Harrod Estate

Late November 2009
• IS thread for Bob Harrod deleted by Moderator. (IS Moderator posted on Feb 2, 2010 that the thread was "deleted at family's request, too much personal info & family fights on public forum.")

Late 2009?
• FH said to reporter included in Feb 2010 article that late last year police were giving polygraph tests to family members and those close to Bob Harrod
• Detective Loomis confirmed that police were using a lie-detector test, but would not disclose publicly the results or to whom the tests were being administered
• Per PE on WS, not all of the daughters took a lie detector test (hearsay/rumor)
CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - Page 22 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - Page 22 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Mon, March 1, 2010
• FH filed objection to petition filed by PB and RB as co-successor trustees of Harrod Family Trust

March 16, 2010
• Partial skeletal remains found in Lucerne Valley. Identity can only be established through DNA.

Wed, May 5, 2010
• Daughters PB and RB named as Co-conservators of the Harrod Estate and Co-trustees of the Harrod Trust

June-August, 2010
• Daughters RB and PB start posting on IS forum again (see In Sessions Posts – 2010)

August 2010
• Facebook and Myspace pages setup for Bob and turned over to the daughters in Aug 2009 are activated after posters on WS discuss that pages were not active

 

[Cubby]

Was JeM really already at Bob's at 9:30 am? Or could that be the time the CVS receipt is stamped?

According to the statement made by the housekeeper, when she spoke with Bob, Bob told her "Jeff is coming....." If JeM was already at Bob's house when the housekeeper called, presumably at 10:00am, why would he not say: 'Jeff is here', as opposed to 'Jeff is coming'.... ?

That leads me to believe JeM arrived after, not prior, to the 10:00 am phone call. Keep in mind, the housekeeper also stated the bed was not made and that was very unusual -never happening in the years she had worked for Bob.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bob Harrod-Court Documents No discussion

 

[Cubby]

Does anyone remember JuM and JeM's anniversary? She posted on her community forum she was DTH helping her father go through her mothers things the morning of her wedding anniversary. does anyone have a copy of the post? I'd like to add it to the timeline. (list of events leading up to Mr. Harrod's disappearance.)