CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #12

[mikkismom]

I think it is a good idea to question that early morning call that places Bob in the house. why not open it up? If we throw out all of the receipts, then we have a heated family meeting when people report that they last saw him alive. That is the last place everyone seems to agree on. They last saw Bob alive at the family meeting.

I will say this-I am prejudiced towards the timeline created by JuM that starts 28 hours after her post.

Because that puts her husband in the house and therefore he must have seen or heard something.

I am on Team Oriah though-what if we throw it all out?

Believe, I think a KEY thing here is 'when was CL called to change the day?' That appears to be last non-family contact. IIRC, a neighbor saw him the evening before and he had called Fontelle that evening. SIL seemed to have no knowledge of the CL change in routine.

jmo

 

[Angelo]

Assuming there hasn't been a lot of journalistic mistakes with the timeline ( and I doubt that, simply because I think certain people or persons would have been straight on the phone, demanding corrections if that had been the case), then it really does appear breathtakingly stupid.

Who in their right mind would give a time of 3pm, knowing there was someone out there who might argue that time was actually Noon? I really find this hard to figure out. I am terrible with times and dates myself so I understand some confusion - but my answers to questions about them would always be, 'I've no idea, I'll have to try and check.' I wouldn't say the first time that came into my head, regardless of its accuracy.

Does anyone have a theory about what actually went on with this timeline? Was it just one person giving different times, or a few people, all providing their own version of the timeline? What on earth does PPD make of it all?

Perhaps JeM changed the times to fit the 3:04pm receipt from Home Depot.

Let's not forget daughter PB's phone call where she stated she was on the phone with her father and heard JeM state he was on his way to Home Depot. She put that phone call around 11:30am.


Daughter PB 8/11/2009:

I called my dad that morning by telephone, he had obviously been getting quite a few phone calls that morning. Then I realized that my BIL was there and I DID hear him say he was going to the "hardware store". My dad responded to him in a favorable way. I told my dad that I would let him go and talk to him later. That was the last time that I spoke to him. Times vary as I could not tell you the exact time that I called Dad, I gave an approximate of sometime between 11 and 12 and found later it was probably after 11:30 a.m.



Then we have JeM's wife JuM. She stated three different times of Mr. Harrod's disappearance the day after he disappeared. On 7/28/2009 JuM gave the times of Mr. Harrod's disappearance as 10am, 12 noon and 1pm.


Daughter JuM 7/28/2009 at 1:50pm:

I need to request positive thoughts and prayers. My father has been missing approx. 28 hours ago. We suspect foul play, but want 1o remain as positive; his new wife will be arriving with her belongings tomorrow.





Daughter JuM 7/28/2009:

During an interview with a reporter at Mr, Harrod's house JeM said her husband was with her dad at his home the day before, he went to the hardware store alone, and when he came back, her dad was gone. Asked what time, she replied “We’re thinking maybe 1, noon?”

 

[Cubby]

I think it is a good idea to question that early morning call that places Bob in the house. why not open it up? If we throw out all of the receipts, then we have a heated family meeting when people report that they last saw him alive. That is the last place everyone seems to agree on. They last saw Bob alive at the family meeting.

I will say this-I am prejudiced towards the timeline created by JuM that starts 28 hours after her post.

Because that puts her husband in the house and therefore he must have seen or heard something.

I am on Team Oriah though-what if we throw it all out?

Still catching up and thinking outloud......

If we throw it all out, then we dismiss the 10am call, no? If we dismiss the 10:00 am call, Bob is possibly in the home deceased long enough for decomp to be detected by cadaver dogs, no?

Mrs Harrod spoke to Bob Sunday evening, iirc. So we know Bob was alive after the heated family meeting. At least until the time Mrs. Harrod called.

Have cadaver dogs been brought into the home, and if not - why?

 

[Cubby]

Believe, I think a KEY thing here is 'when was CL called to change the day?' That appears to be last non-family contact. IIRC, a neighbor saw him the evening before and he had called Fontelle that evening. SIL seemed to have no knowledge of the CL change in routine.

jmo

AFAIK neigbors last saw Bob on Saturday, the day prior to the heated family meeting. I agree knowing when the CL changed the day would be extremely beneficial. Perhaps we'll learn that during the Disappered show?

 

[zwiebel]

I agree that the time of the CL's call is key. I see her as the most reliable 'witness' for the timeline by far, as she had nothing to gain by lying, and also in Disappeared, she says that Bob told her JeM was coming. So whatever time that was, it was before JeM arrived at the house.

If the CL's call has been reported incorrectly, then I suppose it is possible Bob disappeared in the early hours, even the night before. But then when did Bob arrange for the CL to come? am trying to be open to all possibilities, but JeM's behaviour on the day of 27 July 2009, it's just like a red flag to me, shouting, look here, this time, this place. He wasn't behaving like someone doing pre-arranged repairs at the last minute, imo. He was behaving like a panicking amateur faced with an unexpected job without the right tools, equipment and parts, who spends the entire day shopping for them and still misses something vital on the job.

And that's usually when someone more capable, with fresher eyes, has to come in the next day and finish up properly, anything the amateur has missed.

 

[zwiebel]

Still catching up and thinking outloud......

If we throw it all out, then we dismiss the 10am call, no? If we dismiss the 10:00 am call, Bob is possibly in the home deceased long enough for decomp to be detected by cadaver dogs, no?

Mrs Harrod spoke to Bob Sunday evening, iirc. So we know Bob was alive after the heated family meeting. At least until the time Mrs. Harrod called.

Have cadaver dogs been brought into the home, and if not - why?

A forensic search of the home has definitely been reported. Maybe Oriah would know if that would include dogs or not?

 

[GrainneDhu]

I think it is a good idea to question that early morning call that places Bob in the house. why not open it up? If we throw out all of the receipts, then we have a heated family meeting when people report that they last saw him alive. That is the last place everyone seems to agree on. They last saw Bob alive at the family meeting.

I will say this-I am prejudiced towards the timeline created by JuM that starts 28 hours after her post.

Because that puts her husband in the house and therefore he must have seen or heard something.

I am on Team Oriah though-what if we throw it all out?

I have no proof for the following other than that allegation that a call that Bob answered was made by a non-family member at 10 am.

Here's my speculation: I don't think we are dealing with a family with the competence to hire a hit man, who would have done the job properly and not left the family open to suspicion like this (when you need a job done with expertise, call in the professionals... it's what the Mafia does).

I think whoever did this was motivated by money and perhaps overtly or covertly egged on by one or more other family members. This person was not an expert but someone who had been thinking for a while "geeze, the old man just won't give up and die... maybe I could just help him disappear and our troubles would disappear with him."

Then the family meeting where Bob probably reminded his descendants that the money was his to do with as he pleased and his pleasure consisted in marrying a new wife and adding her to his accounts. If it had been me, I would have added "and I fully intend to spend it all and die with a dine left for the lot of you to fight over." Bob may have been more diplomatic than I would be.

Killing Bob would be unthinkable at the family meeting, too many witnesses. Too obvious.

Besides, the one who did this is not a professional. I think this person needed some time to think it over and wind themselves up to the point where they could actually do the deed they had been daydreaming on for a while.

And that is why I think Bob really was still alive at 10 am. And why the killer chose to make Bob disappear rather than try to set it up as a home invasion robbery gone wrong.

Besides, the person who did it probably realised the daughters wanted their mother's jewellery and would not willingly sacrifice it to make a robbery look realistic.

 

[believe09]

The tactic to widen the timeline sounds like something I could see LE doing if they were stuck like we all are. They arent stuck, but we certainly are! It has to be a great method of starting to sift the things we know from the things we dont know. If we take a position, for example, that the last time everyone says they saw Bob alive was the heated family meeting, we can look again at where points might diverge and why. IMO.

We can see now where some of the last known contact information is weak-for example the favorable reply phone call.

If we consider scenarios that begin at the end of the meeting, we can start filling in from those scenarios what we know.

I agree with Oriah-we are missing something and it has to be something that is recoverable because I dont think the person who disappeared Bob was a professional hitman either. So there is information floating around out there...it is the ah ha information. The thing that makes it all fit.

 

[suzyq211]

I guess something must be holding them all together. I just wonder what it is, and how long it will last.

<snipped>

$$$$

 

[cloudajo]

I think it's safe to say the housekeeper spoke to Bob the morning he disappeared, before JeM arrived at Bob’s house. We just don’t know what specific time she spoke to Bob as it’s never been reported publically. If JeM arrived at 9:30AM, then the housekeeper spoke to Bob before 9:30AM. Maybe she called him at 9AM? We also speculated her call was the 10AM call to Bob, but then that puts the call after JeM’s arrival at 9:30AM, if the 9:30AM arrival time for JeM is accurate. It’s possible the 10AM call was not the housekeeper. If JeM did arrive at 9:30AM and it's about 1 hr and 15 min drive from RS to Placentia, that means JeM left his house about 8:15AM, if he drove straight there.

I think of major importance is the morning Bob disappeared, Bob told the housekeeper JeM was coming that day, but JeM did not know the housekeeper was coming that day. Either Bob did not tell JeM after he arrived, which doesn’t make sense to me, or Bob did not have the opportunity to tell him, which to me is more likely.

• Bob Harrod talked to the housekeeper on the phone earlier that morning and told her to come. (OC Register article)

• Narrator: But Jeff was not the only person at Bob’s house that day. Agnes, Bob’s housekeeper of more than 10 years, arrived around Noon. Normally, she cleans Bob’s house on Tuesday, but this week she’d arranged to come on Monday.

• Agnes: And he said that will be fine, I will be here, and Jeff is coming and he’s gonna to take care of a couple of things in the house before Fontelle comes. So I went to the house, knocked on the door, nobody answered, I looked in the mailbox because that’s where he normally leaves me the key, the key wasn’t there, so I sat on the bench in front of the house. (Disappeared clip)

• About 9:30 a.m., Bob's son-in-law Jeff Michaels arrived to help get the house ready. (LA Times article)

• Officials have said that at 10 a.m. July 27 there was a phone call to Bob Harrod, which is the last time anyone other than Jeff Michaels verified he was at the house. Police are not releasing the content of those phone records. (OC Register Reporter)

 

[believe09]

OK-then maybe we focus on other folks at the meeting. Did they reconvene somewhere else?

So JeM was driving the Honda Ridgeline, at least on Monday. Did he head back uth on Sunday? Did he stay at Bob's house to do his odd jobs? That night, I mean? Did anyone travel together?

 

[zwiebel]

I have been working on a timeline which started at 8.15am. I was going to post it then I thought I'd finish the one I'd started where the family meeting reconvened somewhere else.

Then I come here and find a post from cloudajo with an 8.15 timeline and one from believe09 suggesting a reconvened family meeting. If you two are sending me messages, stop it. You've kept me up half the night.

 

[zwiebel]

Okay, I'm still posting my imaginery, re-thought timeline., even though I've been pipped to the post again. I know it's strange, but no stranger than the ones family have provided, I think.

8.15 am. JeM calls Bob. Tells him he'll be arriving in about an hour. Bob asks him to pick up a couple of things along the way. Bob's not expecting a call so early and dresses in a hurry. Forgets to make his bed.

8.45. Jem takes a detour off City Creek Road into the hills, to admire a beautiful, secluded view.

9.am. Bob gets a call from the CL to confirm she's coming at noon.

9.35. JeM is heading down highway 91/ Riverside Freeway.

9.40. JeM drives past Carnation Drive to CVS Pharmacy at 1875 N. Kraemer Blvd, Placentia, to pick up the stuff from the pharmacy.

9.55. Bob gets a call from the BL. She is still having problems but Bob's thoughts are all on Fontelle now. And when his SIL is going to turn up.

10 am. JeM arrives at Bob's house. His journey has taken 30-40 minutes longer than it usually does, because of the detour and pharmacy stop.

10.15. After a cup of tea with Bob, JeM starts the repairs in the bathroom. He has his toolkit there but he doesn't have silicone and knows he won't be able to complete the job without it. Opened silicone doesn't keep well and the one in his toolkit has dried. It's the only thing he's missing.

10.30am. Bob, downstairs, suddenly remembers with all the phone calls, he hasn't made his bed. He always makes his bed. He goes upstairs to make it and meets JeM on the landing. JeM asks him to come into the bathroom a minute, he has something to show him.

11.45 PB calls the house. She speaks for a few minutes, then hangs up.

NOON. JeM heads out of the house. He has some waste from his work to dispose of.

12.05 The CL arrives at Bob's house.

12.10 JeM realizes he has forgotten to pick up the building waste from the bathroom. He turns the car around in a hurry.

12.15. JeM arrives back at Bob's, to find the CL sitting on the stoop.

12.15 - 2.15pm. The CL cleans all rooms except the bathroom JeM is working in. The door is almost shut and she can see he is very busy.

2.15pm. JeM leaves the house. The CL notices he has taken two heavy items from the bathroom with him.

2.25pm. JeM enters Home Depot.

3pm. CL leaves the house.

3.04pm. JeM leaves Home Depot after purchasing two heavy, replacement bathroom items and a tube of silicone. He heads away from Placentia, to a admire the view again in that beautiful place off City Creek Road.

5.30pm. JeM arrives back at Bob's house. He fits the two new bathroom items. He does not finish the silicone and - possibly - a fiddly woodwork job that takes a long time.

6.10pm. JeM writes a note to say he will be back to finish the silicone and woodwork job the next day, and heads for home.

 

[believe09]

OK-what if we look at a scenario where JeM stays at Bob's house? Or Andrew's? He could have been out buying donuts when CL called. Or he was, maybe, at his son's house to save himself the arduous drive dth in traffic during rush hour to get to Bob's house at 930am the next day.

 

[Oriah]

Ok here I go again.. trying to make sense of this, left scratching my head, and probably barking up the wrong tree.

The confluence of events here- from the heated family meeting, to having no knowledge of where everyone who attended ended up that night- or when it began or ended for that matter- or the call from the CL, to hearing JeM in the background, to the timeline, to the receipts just...it doesn't work.

I'm trying to figure out a way that only one person is responsible for Mr. Harrod's disappearance, but having a hard time. Everything seems to point toward some sort of collusion to me.


Does anyone else suspect the receipt from Home Depot was provided to JeM after the fact?

 

[zwiebel]

OK-what if we look at a scenario where JeM stays at Bob's house? Or Andrew's? He could have been out buying donuts when CL called. Or he was, maybe, at his son's house to save himself the arduous drive dth in traffic during rush hour to get to Bob's house at 930am the next day.

I haven't done that because I had another idea which is in my reconvened family meeting post, and JeM staying with AH would mess it up. I was going to post it in a minute.

I did think of a change to the previous timeline, where JeM leaves the house at 11.45 to visit a local storage facility rented by himself or another family member. And visits it again on his way home.

And another change where AH walks to Bob's at 10 am to help his Dad. When Dad has to go out, AH remains to tidy up. When the CL arrives, AH thinks she's a burglar and hides in the closet. It is not until his returning Dad has to let the CL in, that AH realizes his mistake. He's so embarrassed at not letting her in though, he sneaks out without saying hello. She never even knew he was there, apart from some instinctual sense, deep inside.

All jmo and imagination, of course.

 

[zwiebel]

Ok here I go again.. trying to make sense of this, left scratching my head, and probably barking up the wrong tree.

The confluence of events here- from the heated family meeting, to having no knowledge of where everyone who attended ended up that night- or when it began or ended for that matter- or the call from the CL, to hearing JeM in the background, to the timeline, to the receipts just...it doesn't work.

I'm trying to figure out a way that only one person is responsible for Mr. Harrod's disappearance, but having a hard time. Everything seems to point toward some sort of collusion to me.


Does anyone else suspect the receipt from Home Depot was provided to JeM after the fact?

I did, but now I don't because I read the Abraham Shakespeare thread and it seems like they have very good surveillance. As a chain of stores, they're likely to have the same standard of surveillance anywhere, I think? PPD said his receipt checked out.

 

[Oriah]

I did, but now I don't because I read the Abraham Shakespeare thread and it seems like they have very good surveillance. As a chain of stores, they're likely to have the same standard of surveillance anywhere, I think? PPD said his receipt checked out.[/quote]

They do, and PPD did say that.
But did they match them up? I mean, the time lapse alone on that CCTV system would kind of make it impossible. Kwim?

ETA: I suppose its possible that PPD checked a backup drive to match? With a remote server that was set up possibly? I would actually be impressed by that. Idk if the Home Depots here have that, or if it's a chain standard or whatever? Will have to look..

 

[Cubby]

I did, but now I don't because I read the Abraham Shakespeare thread and it seems like they have very good surveillance. As a chain of stores, they're likely to have the same standard of surveillance anywhere, I think? PPD said his receipt checked out.

JeM's receipt may check out but that doesn't mean all his time is accounted for. It's quite possible there is a window of time JeM can not account for. The morning, imo, and where he arrived from around noon when he found the cleaning lady waiting outside Bob's door.

Let's not forget, it is only about 14 hours after Bob is reported missing that JuM posts on her community forum that foul play is expected. How did JuM know so much sooner than LE?

 

[zwiebel]

I did, but now I don't because I read the Abraham Shakespeare thread and it seems like they have very good surveillance. As a chain of stores, they're likely to have the same standard of surveillance anywhere, I think? PPD said his receipt checked out.[/quote]

They do, and PPD did say that.
But did they match them up? I mean, the time lapse alone on that CCTV system would kind of make it impossible. Kwim?

ETA: I suppose its possible that PPD checked a backup drive to match? With a remote server that was set up possibly? I would actually be impressed by that. Idk if the Home Depots here have that, or if it's a chain standard or whatever? Will have to look..

Oh dear, I don't know what the time lapse is.