CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #17

[sreshowtime]

hmmm am thinking more a grassroots effort to start, in a local area, you know local databases and develop and work the kinks out...and let the idea spread from there...I am sure if such an idea can be imagined, it can be implemented with quite a lot of creativity

but I am supposed to be packing boxes to move and not further jumbling my head with more projects to contemplate LOL

I am thinking there is a way to tie in excel with google earth, and file and folders etc...

files and folders and maps , oh my!

 

[zwiebel]

Lol, I dared another peek and it says it can be accessed through google etc, without special software installed on the users' computer, so that's actually a good thing. That list just took me by surprise - I was expecting a colourful, simple, interactive thing!

 

[sreshowtime]

whoa cool Zwie! , another love of mine, Archaeology

 

[zwiebel]

i,ho am thinking more a grassroots effort to start, in a local area, you know local databases and develop and work the kinks out...and let the idea spread from there...I am sure if such an idea can be imagined, it can be implemented with quite a lot of creativity

but I am supposed to be packing boxes to move and not further jumbling my head with more projects to contemplate LOL

I am thinking there is a way to tie in excel with google earth, and file and folders etc...

files and folders and maps , oh my!

Organic growth?

 

[sreshowtime]

well yeah, can't market a product unless it is viable and has been shown to have inherent value to the audience it is designed for, so to speak
You can't expect mergers without a fairly firm foundation to build upon

 

[Grainne Dhu]

hmmm am thinking more a grassroots effort to start, in a local area, you know local databases and develop and work the kinks out...and let the idea spread from there...I am sure if such an idea can be imagined, it can be implemented with quite a lot of creativity

but I am supposed to be packing boxes to move and not further jumbling my head with more projects to contemplate LOL

I am thinking there is a way to tie in excel with google earth, and file and folders etc...

files and folders and maps , oh my!

I think it needs to be both grassroots and top down.

Grassroots because that's where the data are and that's where it is needed.

Top down because to be effective, it needs to be one standard database/tool rather than 30,000 different ones.

So... maybe develop the tool, then start a website and start getting input? A little like wikipedia.

 

[zwiebel]

This software would do exactly what we want - you can have a background of google maps then overlays of visualization data such as cross hatched colours, letters representing types of searches/dates etc, and the ability to only see data applying after a certain date.

It's free too. But that does mean anyone can download the entire spreadsheet. If you wanted to have some control on who could access it, you would have to have another version which means every user would have to pay.

The biggest drawback I can see is that someone has to take all the data that comes in and create a spreadsheet before it can be inputted. That is not a job for one person. You would need an entire team.

Here's an example of it in action. There are plenty more.

http://www.tableausoftware.com/public/gallery/forest-fire-hot-spots

 

[sreshowtime]

hhmm, a definitive database format that can be utilized by others in different locales...get the manner and method ironed out and others will follow? and then ultimately tie it into one mega database?
Would you separate it into geographical regions? By State? By counties?
What would it include? Known Missing persons... located deceased? hikers, children, UID's? Homicides?
Or just a basic data base of coordinates where any body/remains have been recovered, regardless of the why?

You would have to have a server for the networking

 

[zwiebel]

You wouldn't need a server, the software company takes care of that. Users just update from their computers.

It seems daunting, but you could 'just' cover the whole of the US, because a user could always zoom in on states/specific areas. What would it include?......ah.

Not the missing, I think. The located only, and where searches for the missing not found have been carried out, if possible. I fear searches for the missing not found could be the stumbling block though. I have no idea where or if that information is retained at all, on any sort of statewide or official basis.

But then, that's historical. If there was somewhere the information could be put and stored, maybe it would be in the future.

 

[sreshowtime]

okay wait- what would be specific purpose of such a database
for historical or statistical ?
I got myself lost here
ah yikes

oh- we were wondering where people have been found somewhat prior to and since Mr. H has been missing?

groan

 

[Grainne Dhu]

This software would do exactly what we want - you can have a background of google maps then overlays of visualization data such as cross hatched colours, letters representing types of searches/dates etc, and the ability to only see data applying after a certain date.

It's free too. But that does mean anyone can download the entire spreadsheet. If you wanted to have some control on who could access it, you would have to have another version which means every user would have to pay.

The biggest drawback I can see is that someone has to take all the data that comes in and create a spreadsheet before it can be inputted. That is not a job for one person. You would need an entire team.

Here's an example of it in action. There are plenty more.

http://www.tableausoftware.com/public/gallery/forest-fire-hot-spots

My ideal would be that it would be unfettered access but controlled input. That way, it could be of use to a wide variety of people while maintaining a minimum standard of accuracy.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

hhmm, a definitive database format that can be utilized by others in different locales...get the manner and method ironed out and others will follow? and then ultimately tie it into one mega database?
Would you separate it into geographical regions? By State? By counties?
What would it include? Known Missing persons... located deceased? hikers, children, UID's? Homicides?
Or just a basic data base of coordinates where any body/remains have been recovered, regardless of the why?

You would have to have a server for the networking

I'd organise it via jurisdictions (which means city or county sized geographical areas). Of course, how much area constitutes a county varies hugely by state.

I was thinking that it would be a map showing the location, area and type of all searches regardless of outcome, sorted by type of search, location and date. Knowing what geographical area has had what level of human gaze travel over it would be absolutely invaluable in planning future searches even for a different victim.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

You wouldn't need a server, the software company takes care of that. Users just update from their computers.

It seems daunting, but you could 'just' cover the whole of the US, because a user could always zoom in on states/specific areas. What would it include?......ah.

Not the missing, I think. The located only, and where searches for the missing not found have been carried out, if possible. I fear searches for the missing not found could be the stumbling block though. I have no idea where or if that information is retained at all, on any sort of statewide or official basis.

But then, that's historical. If there was somewhere the information could be put and stored, maybe it would be in the future.

Information on searches is kept (if at all) by any of the following: the LE agency with jurisdiction, SAR organisation(s) that participated in the search or family of the missing.

The last category is potentially the most problematical but can be amazingly accurate. For instance, I know one person who kept track of the searches for his missing daughter on US Geological Survey 1:24,000 maps using coloured pencils to code what type of search had been conducted where. This was before GPS but you could look at his maps and figure out to an accuracy of a couple feet exactly where the boundaries of each search had taken place.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

okay wait- what would be specific purpose of such a database
for historical or statistical ?
I got myself lost here
ah yikes

oh- we were wondering where people have been found somewhat prior to and since Mr. H has been missing?

groan

I may be guilty of mission creep... but I thought we were discussing ways to try to eliminate places where Bob is definitely not located and the degree of certainty attached to each area listed.

 

[zwiebel]

Yes, that is what we started off with, where Bob was NOT.

 

[zwiebel]

okay wait- what would be specific purpose of such a database
for historical or statistical ?
I got myself lost here
ah yikes

oh- we were wondering where people have been found somewhat prior to and since Mr. H has been missing?

groan

Yes, sort of. It is mostly about the importance of establishing where someone is not though, which is a very, very good point you brought up earlier and which inspired this whole conversation.

 

[zwiebel]

Wish I could help with your packing sres. I'm quite good at that. Don't forget the separate little box with some cups and tea and coffee making equipment, and keep it with you at all times. Then you'll be able to survive, even if all the rest of your stuff gets lost like mine did once. You can sit on the box to drink your tea, then rip it open, lay it flat and it doubles up as a bed. If you are not tall, that is.

 

[sreshowtime]

thanks zwie- I think this is move 14 since 94...I was thinking of keeping something a wee stronger than tea close by LOL sleeping on a flat box, I love it
I digress, yes...where Bob is NOT
sigh

 

[zwiebel]

Probably thanks to Mrs Harrod allowing searches, we can be certain he is not in his home. For me, that is actually a really, really good thing. It is something that always plays on my mind.

I cannot fathom why, but this keeps cropping up in England -people found in their homes and gardens after they have been missing for years. I know this often happens in the US too, but it confounds me it can happen so often in England, in tiny row houses, with tiny, overlooked yards and gardens. A senior couple ( he would have been 100) have just been found in theirs. After 15 years. Daughter and son in law were just arrested. At St Pancras (International) train station in London, which has the trains heading for mainland Europe. Someone's timing was just a little out there, and LE's was just right...

We can be certain Bob did not collapse and fall on a Placentia street somewhere, and has lain there undiscovered for all these years.

I don't know we can say Bob is no longer anywhere in Placentia though - Oriah seems to have a very open mind about that.

I hope OC Cold Case have some info that can help exclude that possibility, maybe.

It leaves almost everywhere else he could be of course, but many are much less likely than others. And a map that begins to document searches and discoveries in a very clear, visual form could also have an unexpected bonus in highlighting any clusters or patterns - where people are finding it easy to dispose of other people, or where a repeat killer is returning to leave victims. All sorts of useful information could be drawn from it in time, if it became comprehensive enough.

 

[sreshowtime]

well one can hope the house and yard areas.... Like new mulch or plantings...ohh HD sells plants...oh....well...surely not that might be too obvious...er...or not?.......... were carefully inspected...I have a recurring nightmare involving attics myself....