CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #17

[Grainne Dhu]

Probably thanks to Mrs Harrod allowing searches, we can be certain he is not in his home. For me, that is actually a really, really good thing. It is something that always plays on my mind.

I cannot fathom why, but this keeps cropping up in England -people found in their homes and gardens after they have been missing for years. I know this often happens in the US too, but it confounds me it can happen so often in England, in tiny row houses, with tiny, overlooked yards and gardens. A senior couple ( he would have been 100) have just been found in theirs. After 15 years. Daughter and son in law were just arrested. At St Pancras (International) train station in London, which has the trains heading for mainland Europe. Someone's timing was just a little out there, and LE's was just right...

We can be certain Bob did not collapse and fall on a Placentia street somewhere, and has lain there undiscovered for all these years.

I don't know we can say Bob is no longer anywhere in Placentia though - Oriah seems to have a very open mind about that.

I hope OC Cold Case have some info that can help exclude that possibility, maybe.

It leaves almost everywhere else he could be of course, but many are much less likely than others. And a map that begins to document searches and discoveries in a very clear, visual form could also have an unexpected bonus in highlighting any clusters or patterns - where people are finding it easy to dispose of other people, or where a repeat killer is returning to leave victims. All sorts of useful information could be drawn from it in time, if it became comprehensive enough.

I think that people the world over who live in crowded environments learn to ignore what other people are doing as a mental health protective measure. There isn't physical privacy so they do the next best thing by not consciously looking to see what people are doing.

I think Bob could be in Placentia but if he is, he didn't get there alone. If he had, say, gone for a walk as usual, tripped and hit his head, he would have been found by now. Unfortunately, the storm sewer system cannot be ruled out. Or the possibility he was interred inside a private residence by someone who was willing to break a hole into the basement floor (if there was a basement) and then fill it up again. It would be physically taxing but it's been done before so it is possible to do again.

My guess is that the private residence possibility is in the least likely category. I don't think we are dealing with a perp or perps with the high level of DIY skills that would be necessary.

The maps project would be of great use in so many ways. One reason I would want it to be freely accessible is that sometimes it's amateurs who have the time and passion to pore over available data and make connections. The shining example here is the Doe Network, where many unidentified bodies have been matched up with missing persons.

 

[sreshowtime]

hmmm I dunno if we can rule out ALL private residences & their immediate surroundings
cough cough achoo

hmm... where I am moving, the university has this little ole thing called Geospatial Research Center
"We are always looking for partners and collaborative research and educational opportunities. "
hmmm

 

[zwiebel]

That would be nice, having some academic standing behind it.

It's a little strange - if it were up and running, full of maps and numbers and co-ordinates, I'm sure I'd be running around here asking everyone what it means and making massive mistakes in reading the maps!

 

[zwiebel]

About private residences; I would hope that police have requested searches of any they think necessary, and that those requests have been honored. If not.....well that would speak for itself, to me.

 

[sreshowtime]

one nice thing about google earth I have learned, is when you add a place mark, polygon, line, etc, there is a place to put a name for it- and then under properties you can write description, add links, images, all sorts of stuff can be contained there.... keeps the map 'clean' in that sense aside from the marker (unless you get carried away with the name Like I have been doing lol )
It's like I can see how I might put something together.... albeit more simplistic in nature... but the gathering of the 'founds' just sounds exhausting.
I am loving my google earth...learning new stuff everyday, or trying...it is freaking awesome...you can teach an ole dog new tricks

 

[zwiebel]

I had to look up polygon. 50p shape. Which probably isn't a helpful description unless you're English....

 

[sreshowtime]

polygon is rather a misnomer- imagine yourself with a box of colored pencils

 

[zwiebel]

Er...I only have felt tips. Is that why it's not helping?

ETA - Mr Z's just translated for me. I still don't understand. How does he get to know?

 

[zwiebel]

Here's one on a map, apparently. Still can't make it out.

http://www.alteryx.com/community/bl...e-way-highlight-certain-polygons-alteryx-maps

 

[zwiebel]

A mapping system is already underway in OC. But it's for dangerous dogs. How that will be done, I cannot imagine. Can't see the entire article either, to see if there's more info.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/...nstrack=sid:9617407|met:0000300|cat:0|order:2

 

[sreshowtime]

oh all they will do is probably track rabies tags w/ vet info or if you have to register your dog with the local municipality, and get the owner's addy, then pop a placemark on a map...same thing like the RSO registry stuff

smh though not too sure that is a good idea...it's those loose, roaming, non owner, untrained, uncared for dogs you have to worry about , in spite of breed....I have seen the damage a little weenie dog did to someones ankle

 

[Oriah]

About private residences; I would hope that police have requested searches of any they think necessary, and that those requests have been honored. If not.....well that would speak for itself, to me.

Funny, that.

One would think that a search request of private property would be happily granted by owners of property when search is for a missing person, or any evidence of a missing persons' possible location. But here in the US it seems many more people are concerned with their right to refusal.

It's a bit 'big brother'-esk for my taste, but sometimes I sure do wish we had a federal statute akin to California's search and seizure vehicle code http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/vc/vc.htm for private land and structures. If you're paying taxes on a vehicle, and you refuse a breathalizer, your vehicle is Cali's.

Sure would save a lot of time and trouble for SAR.

(Excuse my bitter, folks! Just got turned down for a search of private property where a MP is most likely located. We obey the law, but we don't always do it happily.)

 

[sreshowtime]

Here's one on a map, apparently. Still can't make it out.

http://www.alteryx.com/community/bl...e-way-highlight-certain-polygons-alteryx-maps

that one looks confusing! or the way to do it , to me

 

[sreshowtime]

yah laws suck when you want access huh...too much cya carp

 

[Oriah]

one nice thing about google earth I have learned, is when you add a place mark, polygon, line, etc, there is a place to put a name for it- and then under properties you can write description, add links, images, all sorts of stuff can be contained there.... keeps the map 'clean' in that sense aside from the marker (unless you get carried away with the name Like I have been doing lol )
It's like I can see how I might put something together.... albeit more simplistic in nature... but the gathering of the 'founds' just sounds exhausting.
I am loving my google earth...learning new stuff everyday, or trying...it is freaking awesome...you can teach an ole dog new tricks

sre, did you know there's this super-duper-most-excellent version of google earth??! Update via satellite.

It's like teaching a REALLY old dog REALLY new tricks! Lots of fumbling and tripping and sitting and staying and confused looks- and then a cookie as a reward.

 

[Oriah]

yah laws suck when you want access huh...too much cya carp

Yeah.
It'd be nice to institute a Robert Harrod Law, eh?
Probable cause to include refusal of SAR.

Just think how many cold cases we could solve that way.

 

[sreshowtime]

^yep I am aware of the STK, et al

 

[sreshowtime]

I'd call it the " we are gonna come on your property and we don't care what you lazy azz is smoking or cooking or growing, what we got here is a situation and need to find this missing person, so suck it up & we will give ya a pass" law

 

[Oriah]

that one looks confusing! or the way to do it , to me

The zipcode premise is a good one, imvho. Right up there with GPS coordinates, that would work for the laypersons computer?

I'm liking it, Z. Maybe we can break it up into a more user-friendly interface? A much more specific interface? That way- like Grainne said- it would be accessible to all- but the input of info only from sources that were standardized.

Areas cleared, areas not cleared. A database for uncleared grids.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

That would be nice, having some academic standing behind it.

It's a little strange - if it were up and running, full of maps and numbers and co-ordinates, I'm sure I'd be running around here asking everyone what it means and making massive mistakes in reading the maps!

I would want it to be way more intuitive than that.

Locate the general area, zoom in until you're at the resolution you want and then click on anything of interest and it would pop up a little information window giving co-ordinates, etc.

I would also want it to be capable of being run through an interactive whiteboard system, so that the screen could be way huge and the users could draw lines and manipulate the maps on the whiteboard.

Or to be able to do what they are doing with wildfires now: project a topo map onto a sand table and then the user moves the sand around to match the map, which gives a 3D representation of the area being looked at. That would be so useful in planning searches in areas of difficult geography.