CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #17

[zwiebel]

That's a good point about the photographer. They seem to have been standing just off center and with the camera pointing down.

When I look at the pic as a thumbnail, the toilet and the tank just look totally out of w
wack to me; different shades of white and the tank seems to be off center too.

I'm wondering if that bathroom has a separate shower at all. It's hard to tell, but it looks like a tub behind the door and as though there wouldn't be room anywhere else for one. Just a shower in the tub maybe?

It is amazing what people put out there - there's some people charged with horrible crimes at the moment, who had an animated online discussion about trying to hack/delete phone messages.

I do think it's possible Bob's toilet or tank are brand new, because they are mismatched.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

Yes, the use of the word damage is telling. She didn't say something had been replaced or there was something new, she said there was something damaged.

It really has lots of implications. It obviously occured in the period when Mrs Harrod was away. That would provide a reason for son in law to have been working there; Bob damaged something and wanted it fixed before Mrs Harrod returned. Except....a daughter said she heard he was only going to fix a leaky shower seal. And despite working there for at least one day but probably two ( an early media report quotes LE saying JuM and JeM had been helping out for a 'couple' of days), son in law did not fix the damage.

Which leaves two options; either Bob caused the damage and didn't bother to ask son in law to fix it when he was fixing whatever else he was fixing (and not finishing) that day - or the damage occured so close to the time Bob disappeared, Bob never got the chance to ask for it to be fixed.

When I think it through, it had to be some sort of damage that didn't really stand out to the PPD, was obvious to Fontelle and that could not be fixed in 1-2 days.

Some types of damage are catastrophic but relatively easy to fix, such as replacing a toilet that was fractured in some way. Has to be replaced but is not that difficult to do.

Other types of damage are not catastrophic but are quite difficult to fix. And what pops into my head of this type of damage is cracked or broken ceramic floor tiles. It is an incredibly fiddly job getting one or two tiles out of the floor and replacing them with leftover tiles. Can't be done in just 24 hours because the glue under the tile and the grout have to set. However, just leaving cracked or broken tiles in place is a workable solution most of the time because it doesn't substantially change the way the tiles function.

Considering when the house was built, my guess would be that the bathroom countertops were probably either Formica or Corian but given the geographic location of the house, there's an outside chance that they were ceramic tile as well. And if so... well replacing cracked counter tiles is no easier than cracked floor tiles with the additional difficulty that the grouting has to be done just right since it is so much closer to eye level.

 

[zwiebel]

There's always the problem of getting a match with old tiles too - styles and colors are continuously changing.

Having said that, it seems possible Bob was sensible enough to save any leftover tiles from years back, in case of need. But I can imagine they'd have been stored away in a place which only Bob knew the location of.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

Grainne, do you know of any cases where a water scent-dog has located someone who has been in the water for a long period, rather than just days?

I know one case personally where the body had been underwater in a pond in southern Louisiana for over three months. The sheriff's department was reluctant to send divers in because there were signs of great big alligators all around the pond. So they called a friend of mine to bring her HRD dog, without telling her about the alligators.

Her dog hit strongly from the bank of the pond and then jumped into the water and swam in circles to show the source of the scent. The sheriff's deputies became very agitated and begged my friend to call her dog out of there before an alligator took notice!!!

Oh, my friend was angry... and well connected. That sheriff's department had great difficulty in finding any HRD dog handlers who were willing to deploy for them after that. It wasn't so much the risk of alligators, which is an ongoing hazard in the area. It was that the sheriff's department had seen fresh gator sign and kept it a secret.

You can't deal in bad faith and then be surprised when people thereafter assume you're dealing in bad faith.

Anyway... what had happened was the man had gotten so drunk at a tavern that his friends had confiscated his car keys and the bartender threw him out. He had a big argument with his friends and stomped off in fury rather than accept a ride home from them. It was only about 3 miles to his home, so none of the friends thought it was a big deal.

But he never made it home. The road route to his home was checked repeatedly, no sign of him. There was a shortcut that involved crossing some private land and that route was also checked repeatedly. It took a few months before someone realised that maybe in his inebriated state he had turned the wrong way leaving the parking lot of the tavern and they should try checking the road beyond the tavern.

The pond was fairly deep and set back a bit from the road with a little pullout next to it. There was a somewhat similar pond near the shortcut to his home and the thought is that he was just too drunk to realise he was nowhere near home. They think he started down the little pullout and then fell into the pond when he realised that what looked like a road in the dark didn't really go anywhere.

Part of what probably kept the scent concentrated was that it was a deep pond with relatively little water movement in and out of it. A body in moving water, particularly a fast flowing current... I honestly don't know how long it would release scent. The answer is probably: it depends. That's usually the answer.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

Here is the photo of the damaged bathroom again. I still think there is something stuck under one end of the tissue box, maybe to conceal a crack or chip.

I'm betting on a Corian counter based on that photograph... but look at those pretty ceramic floor tiles. And set on point, too, which makes them even more difficult to repair.

 

[zwiebel]

It's pretty hard to break floor tiles accidentally. I have dropped hammers on mine several times, from ladder-height, and they've not broken. Heavy ceramics falling on them might do it.

The best way to break a tile, in my experience, is to try and get it up, intact because you haven't got a replacement. It's sure to break then.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

The tile must have been taken up a some point, I believe. The grout's a different color and the tile edge seems jagged, as though it has been damaged as it was pulled up.

The only other thing I can think of is the tile gives access to pipework and so has deliberately been grouted with silicon, as it's easier to remove and replace. Does anyone familiar with this type of home know if plumbing is likely to be accessed through the floor?

My childhood home was built within 10 years of Bob's Placenta house.

Going through the floor would be the last resort. It's actually easier to cut a hole in the ceiling below and then make a cute little hatch complete with wood trim. Looks good and gives easy access in case of further problems. Going through a ceramic tile floor pretty much guarantees you'll run a high risk of having to replace the entire floor.

It's possible that the white reflection is from minerals that were left behind when water dripped on the floor.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

There is also a lighter strip by the side of the toilet base. As though at one time, the toilet might have been in a different place.

I wish we had the door hinges in the picture - it might be possible to tell from marks on the frame, if the door and hinges had recently been replaced. It looks to me as though the door buts up right against the tub, and might get damaged if someone fell against it, or opened it violently.

ETA. I don't know if it's 'buts' or 'butts'.

Butts. As in a butted joint.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

That's a good point about the photographer. They seem to have been standing just off center and with the camera pointing down.

When I look at the pic as a thumbnail, the toilet and the tank just look totally out of w
wack to me; different shades of white and the tank seems to be off center too.

I'm wondering if that bathroom has a separate shower at all. It's hard to tell, but it looks like a tub behind the door and as though there wouldn't be room anywhere else for one. Just a shower in the tub maybe?

It is amazing what people put out there - there's some people charged with horrible crimes at the moment, who had an animated online discussion about trying to hack/delete phone messages.

I do think it's possible Bob's toilet or tank are brand new, because they are mismatched.

Given the age of the house and size of the bathroom, I'd go with a shower head in the bath. It wasn't until the late 80s that coccooning became so fashionable and bathrooms started to outgrow the typical 6x10 foot floor print.

 

[zwiebel]

Re butts as in butting up to.

Thank you. I should have looked it up but I was googled out at that time, and I suddenly became completely paranoid about being misunderstood, Lol! It was all the trying to stop myself writing cistern instead of tank that did it. English water tanks are only in the garden or in the attic, not on top of a toilet.

 

[zwiebel]

BBM

Given the age of the house and size of the bathroom, I'd go with a shower head in the bath. It wasn't until the late 80s that coccooning[/] became so fashionable and bathrooms started to outgrow the typical 6x10 foot floor print.

Oh no, I'm lost again. Coccooning?

 

[Grainne Dhu]

BBM



Oh no, I'm lost again. Coccooning?

Coccooning was a trend that got started in the late 80s where people poured huge amounts of money into their homes with the idea that home was the favoured place to be. Specifically, the trend was most visible in huge bedrooms and bathrooms. Included things like mini-kitchens in the bedroom, three or four bathing options in the bathroom (for instance, a shower stall, an ordinary tub, a jacuzzi style tub and a steam bath).

Looking back, it seems both way over the top and a horrid harbinger for the even more conspicuous consumption of the early 2000s.

I'm both appalled and feel this horrified fascination with housing trends in post-Vietnam War US.

My plain little farmhouse is just that: plain and little. But my English cousin gave me a wonderful compliment, said that it has the same atmosphere as her home (the oldest parts of which can be found in the Domesday book).

 

[zwiebel]

Ah yes, the eighties. Swags and chintz or red, white and gray geometrics in England. And a Japanese phase too, I believe.

I was going to say that it doesn't look as though there is room in the bathroom for a tub, either, and that maybe it's one of those short, step-in tubs/showers with a door on the side.

I measured up in my own house though. Going with a door maximum width 30 inches, and a toilet maximum 25 inches out from the wall (mine are less), then adding on 10 inches for the space between them, (doesn't look as though there's more) makes 65 inches. The tub behind the door stretches from wall to wall, so that's the length it would be.

Pretty short. And a bathroom five feet five inches long would also be very small. It may just be the perspective of the photo that makes the room appear foreshortened.

 

[zwiebel]

Wow! Loads of tubs at Home Depot are only 60 inches! Where do you guys put your legs?

http://t.homedepot.com/webapp/catalog/servlet/Navigation?N=5yc1vZbzc0Z1z0wuja

 

[Grainne Dhu]

Ah yes, the eighties. Swags and chintz or red, white and gray geometrics in England. And a Japanese phase too, I believe.

I was going to say that it doesn't look as though there is room in the bathroom for a tub, either, and that maybe it's one of those short, step-in tubs/showers with a door on the side.

I measured up in my own house though. Going with a door maximum width 30 inches, and a toilet maximum 25 inches out from the wall (mine are less), then adding on 10 inches for the space between them, (doesn't look as though there's more) makes 65 inches. The tub behind the door stretches from wall to wall, so that's the length it would be.

Pretty short. And a bathroom five feet five inches long would also be very small. It may just be the perspective of the photo that makes the room appear foreshortened.

I'm not so much on the decorating trends as I am the architectural trends. Which is odd since I have bought exactly 1 house in my lifetime and if all goes well, I will only leave it feet first.

The toilets back then mostly had larger tanks before the US made it federal law that all toilets have to be water conserving. So the overall footprint of a toilet was larger even though the parts the human interacts with directly are about the same size.

Your calculation of the size of the bathroom sounds about right for a house built in the 1970s. I've seen houses built since then where that was the size of the shower stall. My little farmhouse has a slightly larger bathroom but it has hookups for washer and dryer in there as well.

 

[Steelslady]

Wow! Loads of tubs at Home Depot are only 60 inches! Where do you guys put your legs?

http://t.homedepot.com/webapp/catalog/servlet/Navigation?N=5yc1vZbzc0Z1z0wuja

The last time I took a bath was back in 2004 at a resort in Mexico! :floorlaugh: I am a tall lady, and these little bath tubs are too hard to get in and out of thanks to my long legs. I wish we had an old fashioned claw tub or a jacuzzi type bath tub- hubby keeps saying we'll get a new one soon, i don't believe him, lol. :floorlaugh:

 

[sreshowtime]

the tub is at 30"wide , the space for toilet assuming code was 2 and a half feet min. opening and I bet that vanity is 36" at most, putting that back wall at 8 ft.
So the room is at least 5 ft by 8 ft. It is probably a 32" door, which would allow it to open and miss the toilet.
And I bet the vanity top is a one piece cultured marble, as the thickness in the pic is consistant with those types of countertops.

 

[zwiebel]

Oh, I see what you did - measured in the opposite direction from me. I never thought of trying to work out both wall measurements. Duh.

 

[zwiebel]

BBM



Oh no, I'm lost again. Coccooning?

The last time I took a bath was back in 2004 at a resort in Mexico! :floorlaugh: I am a tall lady, and these little bath tubs are too hard to get in and out of thanks to my long legs. I wish we had an old fashioned claw tub or a jacuzzi type bath tub- hubby keeps saying we'll get a new one soon, i don't believe him, lol. :floorlaugh:

I always longed for one of those claw foot tubs too. I finally got one after years and years (my longed-legged spouse was sure it wouldn't be comfortable for him). We both loved it. And then almost straightaway, we had to move. To a house without a tub at all.

 

[zwiebel]

"It gave us back the ones we love"

Very moving article here about the International Commission on Missing Persons, who have identified 17,000 missing people from the 90s Balkans conflicts alone. They were told it could never be done.

http://www.theguardian.com/law/2013/nov/10/bosnia-syria-victims-of-genocide-dna