CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #17

[zwiebel]

I think there's still some things of great interest around, if you google Bob Harrod, or Robert M Harrod. I wouldn't be surprised if even deleted stuff is around too - you know what they say about things on the internet never quite disappearing!

I think it is really interesting to hear what you've said about cold, old cases minusfour; even if there was only one person involved in an actual homicide, I think it may be quite rare when there are not any peripheral people at all - someone who provided an alibi, or heard a row or threat, for example. It all sounds very tenuous, but sometimes those kind of witnesses can give devastating testimony in a trial ( devastating for the defence, that is).

 

[zwiebel]

I just wanted to share that the case of little Fiona Chafoualis in France, age five, whose Mom called Facebook and support sites for her 'abuse/cyber bullying' etc, and asked them to close down (which they did), has seen some progress.

Mom and boyfriend have been arrested. They had fled to Perpignan. I could have told them they were making a tactical mistake there - I lived there.

I didn't.

In little Fiona's case, and Bob's case, the obvious disencouragement of support for the search for them struck a jarring note with me. In Bob's case, it still does.

 

[sreshowtime]

Great news about little Fiona, I hope they can find her now.
yes Zwie the disengagement socks me in the gut whenever my head goes there

 

[zwiebel]

I so hope that little petite chou is found soon too. Her face haunts me because it speaks so much of what she would have been.

With Bob, I think the opposite may be happening. That some people may get the impression that at 81, everything 'about' him lay in the past. That his life was drawing to an end anyway, and everything about him is too long ago to feel much connection.

I've been delving into the past to try and remedy that, but have come across a problem. There is a reference to 'mittens' (from the 1920s) in Missouri. Googling it, I've had no luck. It must be an archaic description. They are not the knitted kind. They are described as 'varmints' that boys would shoot, but not in front of the girls, who would often keep them as pets.

Washbares? Ferrets? Weasels? Were they called mittens because they had a coat that was usually made into mittens? I know it may seem very removed, but I'm trying to present a picture of what Bob was made of. It has been suggested he 'took off', as though that wouldn't be surprising, but from the little I have seen from people of his background, that would have been most unlikely.

Anyway, I don't like to write about anything I'm not clear about, so if anyone has any idea what a 'mitten' critter might have been, I'd be grateful if you'd let me know.

 

[sreshowtime]

i think maybe rabbits

or rats
"For some reason, having rats as pets went out of fashion in the 1920's (which is odd, because - when it comes to style and novelty - it's not often the Jazz Age misses a trick). " from obscure site

 

[zwiebel]

MMmmm, rat mittens. I can't imagine it, but who knows. Maybe something'll turn up. It might even be a corruption of a German word for something.

I remember seeing a suggestion somewhere that Bob had once cut off Georgia's internet connection. It suggests to me that Bob may have had access to the internet, but via her. I wonder if, before she died, Georgia used her accounts to communicate with financial advisors etc, on Bob's behalf? I wonder also, if she had her own computer, or used the one in Bob's house that belonged to 'computer genius' grandson. And if her accounts were securely password protected and closed down upon her death?

 

[zwiebel]

O/T
Mom of little Fiona Chafoulais has now remembered she didn't lose the little sweetie in the park after all. She's recalled boyfriend beat her to death.

I think the wiretapping of mom's home, and police seizing her car, as well as arresting her, have helped encourage that cleansing of the soul. Boyfriend seems to be disagreeing with the story and five others have been arrested.

Cecile Bourgeon (mom) has indicated where the little petite chou was dumped, so I hope she is on her way home right now. She has her dad to welcome her with love, and a load of strangers. And at least one, very very sad one. I think I may have been one of the cyber bullies who 'abused' mom by continuing to talk about Fiona being missing, against her wishes.

I'm proud to bear the label.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

There is a reference to 'mittens' (from the 1920s) in Missouri. Googling it, I've had no luck. It must be an archaic description. They are not the knitted kind. They are described as 'varmints' that boys would shoot, but not in front of the girls, who would often keep them as pets.

Washbares? Ferrets? Weasels? Were they called mittens because they had a coat that was usually made into mittens? I know it may seem very removed, but I'm trying to present a picture of what Bob was made of. It has been suggested he 'took off', as though that wouldn't be surprising, but from the little I have seen from people of his background, that would have been most unlikely.

Anyway, I don't like to write about anything I'm not clear about, so if anyone has any idea what a 'mitten' critter might have been, I'd be grateful if you'd let me know.

SBM

Could you provide a little more context for the reference?

If the original is in German, could it be a misinterpretation of the colloquialism varminting or varmintin'? It is a term referring to the hunting of any species considered a nuisance.

My guess would be squirrels and/or chipmunks, both of which can be very engaging when not afraid of humans but can also be terribly destructive.

As for why Bob may have left Missouri, I suspect it's the same old problem every agricultural area faces: more young people than there are well paying jobs. Being a farm hand means being stuck in poverty for life but there aren't a lot of jobs with more than a very limited amount of advancement available.

Plus add in the classic American "wanted to get off the farm and see the world."

 

[zwiebel]

Yes, it was written around the 1920s, but about an earlier period - around the 1890s. In English. The text is just recounting the everday life of people settling in Missouri, in small towns in Gentry County ( where Bob was born and brought up), after Napolean surrendered it around 1803. It's talking about the interaction of young ladies and gentleman, when they were 'courting'....how the young men really didn't like these critters the ladies regarded as pets, and seemed to keep in their houses.

It does mention how many of the families originated from Germany way back, but there seems to have been a big wave of families arriving in MS from Kentucky way too, later.

So I guess the origin of the 'mittens' could be French, German or Kentucky way? I've checked with French and German speakers, and no luck. But they both suggested rabbits, although kaninchen and le lapin don't sound much like mitten to me. I also checked with a Romanian, just in case, but then it got into a debate about rabbits and hares, as Romanians don't have a word for hares - they're all rabbits to them. I've been trying to point out what I think is the difference, without much luck.

I bet there are a few people in MO with old books or an interest in archaic language who know. I shall meander on with my research, and hopefully an answer will surface eventually.

 

[Grainne Dhu]

Yes, it was written around the 1920s, but about an earlier period - around the 1890s. In English. The text is just recounting the everday life of people settling in Missouri, in small towns in Gentry County ( where Bob was born and brought up), after Napolean surrendered it around 1803. It's talking about the interaction of young ladies and gentleman, when they were 'courting'....how the young men really didn't like these critters the ladies regarded as pets, and seemed to keep in their houses.

It does mention how many of the families originated from Germany way back, but there seems to have been a big wave of families arriving in MS from Kentucky way too, later.

So I guess the origin of the 'mittens' could be French, German or Kentucky way? I've checked with French and German speakers, and no luck. But they both suggested rabbits, although kaninchen and le lapin don't sound much like mitten to me. I also checked with a Romanian, just in case, but then it got into a debate about rabbits and hares, as Romanians don't have a word for hares - they're all rabbits to them. I've been trying to point out what I think is the difference, without much luck.

I bet there are a few people in MO with old books or an interest in archaic language who know. I shall meander on with my research, and hopefully an answer will surface eventually.

The area that is now Kentucky was mostly a hunting ground for the indigenous peoples who lived north and south of it. After the European invasion of the Americas, Kentucky was mostly settled by the English and Scots. There are still places there where people speak with what I am told is close to an Elizabethan English accent.

I don't think hares are native to Kentucky, I think all they have is rabbits.

Rabbits as the pets in question would make sense because they are also very engaging and can be housetrained (big advantage in a housepet). If raised with rabbits, a cat will leave them alone or bond with them, even though feral house cats hunt them.

 

[zwiebel]

That's a coincidence. I was reading about Elizabethan, America English recently. It's not just the accent apparently - they still use some words that have completely fallen out of usage in contemporary English.

On another topic, much more current - if someone refers to 'LA Search and Rescue', are they referring to this organisation, does anyone know? It's just that I can't seem to find anything going by just LA SAR.
http://www.cemp.org/mob/about.html

 

[zwiebel]

I like this language site; poignantly, called Robert's page.

http://robertspage.com/dialects.html

It says jelly doughnuts are called Bismarks in the upper Midwest, and mentions the 'popular myth' that unchanged Elizabethan English is spoken in some parts of the US. I've never heard that. I don't know how anyone could believe a language could remain unchanged for 400 plus years, unless all the people speaking it had died suddenly, at once.

 

[zwiebel]

Bismark looks most unlike a jelly doughnut, to me. But I suppose the Earl of Sandwich didn't look much like a sandwich, either.

 

[zwiebel]

The remains found on the Montebello bike trial. I can't find any updates, but here there is a family member of a missing person making a very important comment. I can't find any reports of a missing person by that name though.
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/montebello-ca/T0P5AL9PF1BNJDBJU

And here there is someone saying RIP to someone of the same name recently. I just wonder if an ID has been made?
https://mobile.twitter.com/IEJER

 

[sreshowtime]

^ yea I see that Zwie, interesting, will peek at the map fwiw

 

[Cubby]

The remains found on the Montebello bike trial. I can't find any updates, but here there is a family member of a missing person making a very important comment. I can't find any reports of a missing person by that name though.
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/montebello-ca/T0P5AL9PF1BNJDBJU

And here there is someone saying RIP to someone of the same name recently. I just wonder if an ID has been made?
https://mobile.twitter.com/IEJER

the info in the topix thread is related to remains which were found in 2011. We were looking for info on the remains found in July of 2013.

Though, multiple remains found in the same area indicate this might be an area where the homeless live.....

 

[Cubby]

Here is the thread for the remains found in July of 2013

CA CA - Montebello, Human Remains Aside Bike Trail, Jul'13 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[zwiebel]

Thank you Cubby. I noted the month, but missed the year. I'm such an idiot.

 

[zwiebel]

I have left a post on that thread. Hopefully, if there is any news, some kind person will let us know.

 

[Cubby]

Not an idiot, it's easy to miss when the same area is mentioned....... I see a lot for Lancaster also.....

Always praying today is the day Bob comes home. Every day.