CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #17

Status
Not open for further replies.
  • #1,041
There is a little difficulty with the theory Bob wanted money returned - his daughters have stated he always kept records of loans, on check stubs and bits of yellow paper. But they could not find anything like that for monies given to the hairdresser.

Or, rather, Bob's eldest daughter was asked to produce a yellow paper she had in her possession, but she declined. This was during a court case two daughters brought against the hairdresser to get the money back, and which they lost.
 
  • #1,042
There is a little difficulty with the theory Bob wanted money returned - his daughters have stated he always kept records of loans, on check stubs and bits of yellow paper. But they could not find anything like that for monies given to the hairdresser.

Or, rather, Bob's eldest daughter was asked to produce a yellow paper she had in her possession, but she declined. This was during a court case two daughters brought against the hairdresser to get the money back, and which they lost.

Hmmm so why would a man that made family pay back every cent not do so with his barber?
 
  • #1,043
I live in Orange County. A lot of people were taking about this for a while.
 
  • #1,044
You know I know this hasn't happened but it would be really funny if he just said "to hell with all of this" and left. Anyone know the background of his new wife,such as her kids?
 
  • #1,045
  • #1,046
IMHO it would not have behooved Mr. H's new wife, et al, to disappear Mr. H....at THAT point in time.... Pure speculation on my part, now IF they wanted to, they would have waited until the new Mrs. was securely enthroned in her new status.......physically and completely legally bequeathed any and all things Mr. H could have had mind to 'set her up' with.KWIM?
Now the barber lady....I those monies was discussed in court and apparently was determined to be gifted... for whatever reason Mr. H chose...

Now when it comes to family and business...and the 'loaning' of monies for whatever purpose. IMHO any good business man, and I think it has been determined that Mr. H is, isn't going to shell out boat loads of money to family, because in part tax laws probably come in to play.... and he may have been trying to teach a lesson in economics. IMO family is sometimes more apt to assume loans can be forgiven on a whim, so having a paper trail is important, because family can get just as ugly as strangers, in the money department. Ya know? It was one thing for my daddy to slip me a wad of benjies, for some mad money, but those few times it was 4 digits or more, had a promissory note attached...
Boils down it was Mr. H's money and he could do what he wanted....
 
  • #1,047
I live in Orange County. A lot of people were taking about this for a while.


welcome...
SO as a local to Orange...care to share what people there were saying ?
 
  • #1,048
I saw somewhere - maybe a post by Oriah? - that to hydrate properly for walking, it's necessary to drink the day before the trip. I wonder if it is even possible to carry sufficient water supplies for more than two days, in those conditions.

Seeing that hiker makes me think it is possible that someone just pushed Bob out of a vehicle in the middle of nowhere. He would never have managed to walk out. I hate to think that might have happened to him though.

I've wondered the same thing. I hope that if someone considered that, they'd feel like it was too risky.
 
  • #1,049
tap tap Zwie ....drink WATER the day before lol...not just drink...sorry I am half giddy, & overwhelmed here
rather be map staring

According to the doctor on the burn unit I spent nearly four months in, it doesn't really matter what you drink so long as it is mostly fluid. Even coffee counts as a net gain although the caffeine is coffee does have a slight diuretic effect.

It's an important issue on burn units where people typically have huge areas of open wound and are losing fluid quickly. There are only so many IV lines that can be run at once and if the patient can drink on their own, it helps.
 
  • #1,050
I think someone in the family needed the money and had no idea he was so well off. I think there is a reason that he didn't share what he was worth to them. I also think the barber is shady. I could see him telling them he needed the money back.

Welcome!

I think you are absolutely right about someone in the family needing money (or thinking they needed it).

If you came here after watching "Long Lost Love," one set of facts they didn't mention on the show is that Bob had bought each of his daughters and his grandson a house apiece to live in. He didn't give them the houses outright but just the fact he could buy them probably conveyed some sense of his financial situation. He was carrying a $600K mortgage for his grandson, for instance. I'm sure his family realised that not everyone has that kind of money available to them.

The barber and her husband are the only two people cleared by LE in this case. The two daughters who are acting as Bob's co-conservators did take the barber to court to try to get the money back from her and failed to prove even one single allegation in the case (the judge's ruling in that case is really pretty funny, so far as the usual style of rulings go).
 
  • #1,051
Hmmm so why would a man that made family pay back every cent not do so with his barber?

Maybe he liked her more?

Maybe she didn't deride what he ate, how he chose to live, how he chose to spend his money.

Or perhaps he agreed with Mick Jagger that it's not good for one's children to just give them houses.

I don't know.
 
  • #1,052
We know Bob liked to donate, and we know he told officials following up elder abuse allegations that he was not being exploited. In fact, if what his daughter wrote was true, Bob was very angry about this.

It seems pretty certain he gifted money of his own free will, when he wanted to. On a whim? When he felt someone really needed it? Or when he felt there was little chance of the person being able to repay it, and so gifting or not giving money at all were the only options?
 
  • #1,053
Hmmm so why would a man that made family pay back every cent not do so with his barber?

I did consider a different possibility for a while.

I don't have the links but if I recall correctly, the PPD has said that there has been no activity on Bob's bank accounts or credit cards since Bob disappeared (since the estate is now in conservatorship, I assume they mean no activity outside those taken by the co-conservators).

At 81 years old, with bum knees I doubt that Bob could or would just walk away from his own house with just the cash in his wallet to start a new life. Even in southern California, sleeping rough is very hard on the body and at his age, I just can't see it. It's not like he had lived the sort of life where he'd know how and where to get a fake ID and then get a job flipping burgers somewhere.

But... what if he wanted to disappear but not have to live on the streets? One way might be to squirrel his getaway money with someone he trusted to hold it for him. Walk away one day, collect the money his friend is holding for him and he could have a new life. At least for awhile because $50-60K is not gonna last him long. Nothing illegal about walking away from your old life without notifying your family. Since I'm sure the co-conservators notified the Social Security Administration of Bob's disappearance, so there wouldn't be any fraud involved.

The thing that made me dismiss that possibility is that I think he was really in love with Fontelle. I think he saw her as both a link to his past and someone he would enjoy going into the last years of his life with. We know from his daughter RB that he tried to contact Fontelle about 5 months before Fontelle contacted him but RB was unable to find Fontelle on the internet due to Bob not recalling how Fontelle's name was spelled.

So it wasn't just a case of Fontelle working to re-kindle an old flame; it sounds to me like there were embers still there just waiting for a little fuel to light up again.

Most importantly, I don't see Bob as the sort of sadistic person who would deliberately put either his family or Fontelle through the sort of emotional torture that walking away like that would predictably cause.
 
  • #1,054
It is supposed to be a red flag if someone upping and leaving suddenly is a 'totally out of character' thing for them to do. That has to apply to Bob. He had 81 years to demonstrate any predilection for disappearing, and never did.

You have to go back 60 years, and then all you find is a young man sent to a marine camp and never returning to his fiance. But even then, he didn't disappear. Everyone knew where he was, and he did even return to live in MO for a while.

Even his daughters, who at times have seemed to consider Bob capable of the strangest behaviour (with no good reason, that I can find) have never suggested he was the type of person to walk away from his financial and property interests. Just the opposite, in fact. They have suggested he disappeared to 'punish them', but that sounds like nonsense to me. He'd already told them to stay away from him once, so he could easily have done that again, in my opinion.

I will never believe Bob went missing voluntarily. He would have taken Fontelle and his hard-earned money with him. I only wish he had.
 
  • #1,055
It is supposed to be a red flag if someone upping and leaving suddenly is a 'totally out of character' thing for them to do. That has to apply to Bob. He had 81 years to demonstrate any predilection for disappearing, and never did.

You have to go back 60 years, and then all you find is a young man sent to a marine camp and never returning to his fiance. But even then, he didn't disappear. Everyone knew where he was, and he did even return to live in MO for a while.

Even his daughters, who at times have seemed to consider Bob capable of the strangest behaviour (with no good reason, that I can find) have never suggested he was the type of person to walk away from his financial and property interests. Just the opposite, in fact. They have suggested he disappeared to 'punish them', but that sounds like nonsense to me. He'd already told them to stay away from him once, so he could easily have done that again, in my opinion.

I will never believe Bob went missing voluntarily. He would have taken Fontelle and his hard-earned money with him. I only wish he had.

BBM

I absolutely agree with you; I did consider whether Bob may have left voluntarily but rejected the idea because of Bob's history and his plans for the future.

The bolded part suddenly leapt out at me and I made a weird connection. I've been reading an excellent book by Lundy Bancroft called Why Does He Do That? It is about abusive intimate relationships and while the focus of the book is primarily on domestic violence between male abusers and female victims (because that is the population Bancroft had been working with for 15 years when the book was written), the vast majority of it is applicable to any intimate relationship where abuse is taking place.

And... BINGO!!!!!

The author makes the point that all abusers share a common set of characteristics but which characteristics are most prominent in an individual abuser is both individual and, to a certain extent, cultural. One of the common characteristics of abusers is that it is all about the abuser, all the time. From the abuser's point of view, it doesn't matter what situation the victim is going through the really important story should be about the abuser. One of the anecdotes in his book is about a woman whose child went missing for 48 hours and her abusive husband then exploded and abused her because he said she wasn't paying enough attention to him. To her abuser. Never mind that pesky kid, she should have been paying attention to him.

Remind you of something? It sure reminds me of something.

BTW, Bancroft draws a bright line between the ordinary sort of quarrelling that almost every couple goes through and abuse by pointing out that in a non-abusive relationship, things like name calling, slamming doors, throwing objects around, yelling, etc, may occur occasionally but neither partner is frightened by those behaviours. They may well be ashamed of themselves afterwards but there was no intention to frighten and no fear on either side.

The very same behaviours in an abusive relationship are part of an ongoing pattern of fear, intimidation and control.

So sometimes a given behaviour can be abusive and sometimes it's not abusive; the way to differentiate is by the effect on the victim and on the overall pattern of the relationship. Such a useful and obvious way to differentiate between acting immaturely and acting abusively!

I haven't seen any evidence that suggests to me that Bob felt in any way intimidated or fearful of his barber. I haven't seen any proof that the money he gave her was anything other than a gift (that opinion is based on the judge's ruling in the civil court suit about that money).

We know that Bob did give his daughters a sizeable chunk of money each to get them to leave him alone after the death of his first wife, Georgia.

Same behaviour, different emotions?
 
  • #1,056
That's a very good point. There is nothing out there to suggest Bob ever tried to get the barber and her family to leave him alone. Instead, there is Bob's best friend who told Bob straight he didn't like her, and a daughter who made a report of elder abuse. Bob appeared to ignore them both.

Thought about, despite the shock expressed by Bob's daughters about the amount of money Bob had gifted, and the implication this was unheard of, the amounts really pale into insignificance if it's considered the amount of money Bob had invested in properties in which his family members were living.

Apart from Bob giving money to his and Georgia's long-term hairdresser and her family, we have only heard about his parsimony from family. But some of Bob's charitable donations have been tracked down here, and I'd love to know if family are aware of a lot more, but have just chosen not to reveal that particular information to the world.
 
  • #1,057
( whispers, it's almost like some were afraid there would be nothing left for them, eh?)
 
  • #1,058
That's a very good point. There is nothing out there to suggest Bob ever tried to get the barber and her family to leave him alone. Instead, there is Bob's best friend who told Bob straight he didn't like her, and a daughter who made a report of elder abuse. Bob appeared to ignore them both.

Thought about, despite the shock expressed by Bob's daughters about the amount of money Bob had gifted, and the implication this was unheard of, the amounts really pale into insignificance if it's considered the amount of money Bob had invested in properties in which his family members were living.

Apart from Bob giving money to his and Georgia's long-term hairdresser and her family, we have only heard about his parsimony from family. But some of Bob's charitable donations have been tracked down here, and I'd love to know if family are aware of a lot more, but have just chosen not to reveal that particular information to the world.

Good point about how the amount of money he gave the barber was really quite small compared to what Bob spent on his offspring.

If the goal of a given story line is to portray Bob as not being worth anyone's time and effort to search for him, then portraying him as a money obsessed miser makes sense. Making known his charitable donations would be contrary to the point of such a story line.
 
  • #1,059
I wondered if Bob had made any charitable donations in his will, and then I began thinking about his will itself. I was listening to a wills/trust attorney being interviewed today, and she stressed the importance of filing the document with an attorney's office, or storing it in a bank. She positively advised against giving it to executors, conservators or beneficiaries to safeguard. And didn't really think keeping it at home was a good idea either.....but maybe in a safe but obvious place was okay.

That made me think of all the safes in Bob's house. A perfect place to keep a will, and the beneficiaries would have had no trouble finding it. Daughter JuM knew where the keys were.
 
  • #1,060
Bumping Mr Bob back to page 1.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Guardians Monthly Goal

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
54
Guests online
1,532
Total visitors
1,586

Forum statistics

Threads
636,665
Messages
18,701,222
Members
243,803
Latest member
kittehcow
Back
Top