CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - # 9

[Cubby]

I sometimes wish I could unthink thoughts I have thought.

Out here in the great midwest, that would be more than enough to buy a contract from a pro.

Hypothetically, if that were so, then searching for Bob on land or in the water is useless. His body will have been placed in concrete work somewhere. Given another 100 years, when the concrete needs to be replaced, it may show up.

Please pass me the mental floss.

Of course hypothetically..... You're not the first to have thoughts of money laundering and concrete cross your mind, Grainne'.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Hi believe09! All good questions. Some of the answers are contained in Exhibit 2 (the Settlement Agreement) attached to the Objector's Notice, here.

I think that your assumptions re fiduciary responsibility are for the most part correct.

I find that for me, reviewing the docs at the Media Links forum reveals items of interest that I'd overlooked or not paid closer attention to before.

btw, I don't know that it is anyone's business what the daughters did with the personal property once received.

Anxiously awaiting gitana's input on these issues as she can familiarize herself with this case. There's a lot to digest but she's a quick study.

~jmo~

BBM

The point for me is that Bob has not yet been declared dead or incompetent. Since he is clearly missing, the courts appointed two conservators to tend to his assets so that if he walked back into his life tomorrow, his assets, including his belongings, would still be intact.

In theory.

In actuality, if Bob showed up on his own doorstep tomorrow, he would find a house inhabited by his loyal wife but largely stripped of any furnishings or possessions.

Apparently in 81 years of life, Bob never owned so much as a set of sheets.

As for his financial assets... well, all I can say is that I would not want to disappear for three years and then discover that half of my substantial estate had gone "poof."

It is geographical bigotry but sometimes in the rest of the US, people say "only in California." After reading Gitana's links about the abuse of conservatorships in that state, all I can say is "I hope it is only in California."

Seeing as at least three of Gitana's links were to stories in The Los Angeles Times, I then begin to wonder who might have read those stories and seen a legally sanctioned way to get their hands on something they wanted very badly.

And I'm not talking about sheets.

 

[GrainneDhu]

The co-conservators are both divorced. Only daughter JuM and Bob's grandson, AH are married.

Good point though. I wonder if AH's wife pays rent and I wonder if daughter JuM pays her husband rent.

Of course I also wonder if the 1st Mrs. Harrod paid rent.

BBM

Well, if the co-conservators charged their former spouses rent, that could explain the divorces. LOL!

 

[Cubby]

Get out of my head, Grainne'. I had the same thoughts with regards to the links gitana1 posted. Seeing the vast amount of research, on all kinds of topics JuM has done and posted about at ROTW, in addition to her 'knowledge' of elder abuse, it would not surprise me in the least if all three daughters were more than aware of the state of affairs with conservators in CA. Funny how some appear to be 'know it alls' on some subjects and 'know nothing' on others. hmpf.

Seeking rent from Mrs Harrod while living in the marital home, is clearly nothing more than another futile attempt at steering her away from seeking answers into what happened to her husband. Clearly a don't look here, or anywhere, attempt, imo.

Time will reveal all, so we just have to keep being patient and pressing onward.

 

[shana]

BBM

The point for me is that Bob has not yet been declared dead or incompetent. Since he is clearly missing, the courts appointed two conservators to tend to his assets so that if he walked back into his life tomorrow, his assets, including his belongings, would still be intact.

In theory.

In actuality, if Bob showed up on his own doorstep tomorrow, he would find a house inhabited by his loyal wife but largely stripped of any furnishings or possessions.

Apparently in 81 years of life, Bob never owned so much as a set of sheets.

As for his financial assets... well, all I can say is that I would not want to disappear for three years and then discover that half of my substantial estate had gone "poof."

It is geographical bigotry but sometimes in the rest of the US, people say "only in California." After reading Gitana's links about the abuse of conservatorships in that state, all I can say is "I hope it is only in California."

Seeing as at least three of Gitana's links were to stories in The Los Angeles Times, I then begin to wonder who might have read those stories and seen a legally sanctioned way to get their hands on something they wanted very badly.

And I'm not talking about sheets.

I understand your sentiments.

I believe that the distribution of personal property (as listed) was part of the Settlement Agreement. Once again, I'd have to re-read it...also would like to read the responses to all of the above from 'the other side'.

btw, I live in California and know far too much about how Trusts work and are handled in the courts here. I do not think it is so much about this state as it is about the unique circumstances in this case.

~jmo~

 

[believe09]

All three daughters and the grandson are married themselves. I wonder if they make their spouses pay rent?

:floorlaugh: Another good one Grannie.

 

[believe09]

shana, I wasnt clear and I apologise.

I was not implying that someone should track the china-Mrs Harrod gave over the contents of the house in the spirit of settlement of course. My point was that Bob is not legally dead, so I dont understand the distribution of any assets.

It makes sense to me that his wife would have a stipend-she is married to him. The co conservators agreed, although they witheld it for a really long time...whatever.

mikeysmom and shana-my heart aches for your stories. I dream about my dad sometime, although his things werent distributed during his lifetime...he loved his stuff, lol.

Since you are familiar with probate law and trusts, shana, what are the guidelines when it comes to conservatorships over assets like Mr Harrod's? Do the follow the trust instrument to the letter? Who is looking out for him and following his intentions? I would think the trust instrument and any other written documents would be the guidelines. But maybe I have the language all wrong...do you understand what I mean?

 

[shefner]

I would hate to think that if I went missing, my grown children (um...."grown" in name only) could come into my home and take my possessions from my spouse (which also happens to be their dad, by you get my drift).

This is the true essence of "elder abuse."

 

[believe09]

In a few of the filings, we have seen requests to have the co conservators removed because of their relationship with the only suspect in the disappearance and for breach of fiduciary responsibility. IIRC the October 31, 2011 trial was for that purpose and the judge found irregularities but nothing egregious in his mind. I suppose the trial docs would be helpful too, lol.

 

[believe09]

Gitana-I have someone who can meet you at the courthouse! We can set it up via PM so I dont hijack the thread here...

 

[Cubby]

:bump:

Back to the first page.

 

[Cubby]

It doesn't open for me. Don't know if it is my computer. Any one having any luck opening Andrew's deposition?

 

[suzyq211]

Whoa...so let me get this straight...he stopped making payments as soon as Bob disappeared. That is crazy...

 

[Montjoy]

Whoa...so let me get this straight...he stopped making payments as soon as Bob disappeared. That is crazy...

Crazy like a fox. How did he know Bob's intentions...and more important, how did he know that Bob wasn't going to return?

 

[Montjoy]

Thanks doesn't cover it, Adnoid -- bless you!

 

[tlcya]

wow, to have been the proverbial fly on the wall during that dep. Interesting. Thanks Adnoid

ETA, unbelievable. Dude cannot even provide a rough estimate of total loans given him by Bob or Bob via the trust. This guy was like the bottomless pit. Bob seems to have been such a good guy. Its obvious he helped his family alot. Too bad some members turned out to feel entitled to his money as a result.

 

[Cubby]

The file opened for me, took awhile but it opened.

Hinky meter is flying! it sounds as if he had to stop himself from saying he believed his loan to his grandfather was forgiven upon his grandfathers death! Oh my! very interesting reading......

 

[SuziQ]

Thank you Adnoid! Off to read.

 

[tlcya]

So the daughters quit their jobs after becoming trustees of the estate (pg 50 and 51) I guess we can imagine what sort of "administration fees" they are collecting. Enough so that a job is no longer a necessity.

 

[Cubby]

Beginning with page 37 line 21

Paraphrased. When asked by his Aunt Paula why he wasn't making payments on the deed of trust, AH's reply, that wasn't my grandfathers intent.


Hmm. So was Mr. Harrod disappeared so his children and grandsons loans would be forgiven? Or was there some kind of scam his grandson and son in law needed to ensure Bob would not uncover? In addition to ensuring Bob could not spend their inheritance?

I hope to God a forensic accountant is taking a close look. Something is very very hinky here.