Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #16

[ktm44]

I have to wonder if on their night shift at Walmart, part of their plan was to steal some ammo for their plan to do what they did.

It could have been their plan but very difficult to do. Certain, dangerous or high theft items come off the truck and go directly to a locked cage in the back, under manager supervision.

They wouldn't have been employed nearly long enough to get anywhere near them and there are more cameras in the back than there are in the front and ammo comes into the store alarmed so even if every other safety procedure in place failed, they would have set off alarms leaving the building.

 

[NJSleuth91]

they liked burning things. I said in a post before that most teen males like vehicles and would be reluctant to completely destroy them, but these guys did not really value anything, IMO, and I wonder if they had any arson in their past.

Hey well most teen males don't gun down three innocent people either. What's a vehicle in the grand scheme of things if you don't even value the sanctity of life including your own?

On the non-family angle, what I had in mind (and neglected to say... ooops) was someone who did not know who had stolen from them. One possibility IMHO is if they were burglarizing, or maybe even car-hopping. If they stole from someone who had illegal items (say, handguns, no permit) I doubt the theft would be reported (and they would know know who the thief was).

And yup, it was the "long joyride" comment that got me pondering whether there was some sort of rift in a family - that, coupled with them both giving their real names.

My strong hunch is that when the RCMP releases their report, a few crimes on Vancouver Island will have their cases closed.

As I said I dont think they committed any previous crimes because I think they were total idiots and would have been caught, especially if it was a frequent thing. I think this was an "extinction burst."

This is the point I keep coming back to as well.

If all the perps wanted were things......why on earth did they need things? 18 and 19 year old males I know would be absolutely thrilled to get a truck and camper on loan to travel to Whitehorse to look for work. What a great experience, regardless if they found good jobs or not. And I don’t think anyone would offer a truck and camper without ensuring the two had enough gas money and food to make the trip. What more did they need that required robbery?

I think they were already well-practised, conniving petty criminals long before this trip. They had no intention of getting jobs. The Port Alberni family members, whoever they were, who supported their stated intentions and aided them in getting set up for this trip up north....what a catastrophic betrayal.

I don't think if it was robbery, it was for material gain. It would be for thrill and exerting power over someone.

 

[MistyWaters]

There were 2 guns involved, not just 1. Maybe Kam took out a large cash advance on a credit card - went to the bank and said he needed the cash to purchase a car. People pay cash for private car sales all the time, so taking out $5,000-$8,000 or more could be totally plausible.

Lots of possibilities for sure. Another would be to sell the truck and camper privately and quickly for pennies on the dollar and forge the registered owners name on the bill of sale. Unsuccessful, they burned it in a rage.

 

[MistyWaters]

He worked part time at Walmart though, barely 19. Do credit cards really start out that high?

Unlikely plus he’d only worked 5 weeks. However fraudulent credit card use could be involved.

 

[Zella]

As I said I dont think they committed any previous crimes because I think they were total idiots and would have been caught, especially if it was a frequent thing. I think this was an "extinction burst."

SBM

I was talking to my brother about the case today, mainly because I was asking him about airsoft weapons (he's an avid shooter and actually a gunsmith by trade), but I ended up explaining the case to him and showing him the surveillance footage.

His one observation that really stood out to me after I was explaining some of their boneheaded decisions, even without me explaining killer duo power dynamics, was that they both sounded like followers. Basically, a blind leading the blind scenario.

Incidentally, his other main observation was of them walking out the door in the footage. His exact words were "Those are some tall boys." Then he pointed out that Bryer's head nearly touches the door frame. I think this has maybe been brought up before, but how tall are commercial doors in Canada? I know a standard door height here in the States is 6'8".

He also told me I seemed a little obsessed with the case and needed to back away from the ledge. LOL But he wants an update on anything the Mounties release, so I may have gotten him hooked, too.

 

[NJSleuth91]

There were 2 guns involved, not just 1. Maybe Kam took out a large cash advance on a credit card - went to the bank and said he needed the cash to purchase a car. People pay cash for private car sales all the time, so taking out $5,000-$8,000 or more could be totally plausible.

I highly doubt they would give a 19 year old who works at Walmart that much without a cosigner.

 

[KR72]

Lol oh I hope you’re not tagged on a list now. I’m joking btw. Sometimes when I’m typing things in to google search I have brief qualms that I’m going to have a hard time explaining them if I’m ever asked.

I thought I'd take one for the team, lol.

 

[NJSleuth91]

His one observation that really stood out to me after I was explaining some of their boneheaded decisions, even without me explaining killer duo power dynamics, was that they both sounded like followers. Basically, a blind leading the blind scenario.

That's a great observation and could explain a lot about this whole thing. You have to get him to start posting on here!

He also told me I seemed a little obsessed with the case and needed to back away from the ledge. LOL But he wants an update on anything the Mounties release, so I may have gotten him hooked, too.

Ok but real talk, why are so many people obsessed with this case?? It's been three weeks and I'm still just as hooked as ever, although I have actually resumed getting work done, LOL.

 

[Zella]

That's a great observation and could explain a lot about this whole thing. You have to get him to start posting on here!

Sadly, he's not much of an internet user, but yes, he is very perceptive and would be a great contributor! He was explaining to me in great detail the mechanism of how airsoft guns work in relation to pellet guns and BB guns and regular weapons. Fascinating stuff but way over my head!

The general gist I got from the conversation, though, was that airsoft guns are actually safer to shoot somebody with than a pellet gun or a BB gun, and he said the likelihood of the victims being killed with Bryer's airsoft gun was very minimal. (He said maybe pointblank at the temple but even then wasn't convinced it would necessarily be fatal.)

Ok but real talk, why are so many people obsessed with this case?? It's been three weeks and I'm still just as hooked as ever, although I have actually resumed getting work done, LOL.

I've dragged him, a few other relatives, a coworker, and 2 friends down this rabbithole with me. There's something about this case that just seems to get under people's skin. I am being slightly more productive with my days and not having dreams about the case, though, so I guess I'm improving.

 

[Arizona 123]

As I said I dont think they committed any previous crimes because I think they were total idiots and would have been caught, especially if it was a frequent thing. I think this was an "extinction burst."

Speaking as the guy who referred to them upthread as "homicidal turnips", I'm not exactly inclined to try to defend their mental abilities.

 

[ktm44]

I am sure you are right, but I wonder if there is a half empty box in the locked storage cage or some other subterfuge (just very suspicious, I am).

They wouldn't have been in a position to access the keys to the cage and in order to access the keys, they would need to access the key lockbox which requires an employee swipe card (on the back of the Walmart ID card) as well as the corresponding PIN. Ammo goes to the ammo case as quickly as possible, again with an employee and manager.

Once it's in the ammo case, employees must call for at least an assistant manager to open it for a customer. They will only open a case after seeing a valid PAL and if the customer wants to purchase, the employee walks it to a cashier familair with handling ammo sales, must review the PAL again before the transaction commences, the till asks questions which require them to verify PAL is current and when the transaction completes, the manager carries the ammo to the door and hands it to the customer as they walk out.

It would be far easier to simply get someone they knew, with PAL, to simply buy them the ammo they needed.

 

[NJSleuth91]

The general gist I got from the conversation, though, was that airsoft guns are actually safer to shoot somebody with than a pellet gun or a BB gun, and he said the likelihood of the victims being killed with Bryer's airsoft gun was very minimal. (He said maybe pointblank at the temple but even then wasn't convinced it would necessarily be fatal.)

Yeah I never thought that was a realistic possibility, and clearly it isn't now that (at least) two actual guns have been recovered. They wouldn't let teenagers use airsoft guns if there was any significant risk of fatalities. Can you imagine the controversy if it came out that some teenagers murdered three people with airsoft guns?! Plus at that point there would be other more effective methods that would likely be used instead of guns.

I've dragged him, a few other relatives, a coworker, and 2 friends down this rabbithole with me. There's something about this case that just seems to get under people's skin. I am being slightly more productive with my days and not having dreams about the case, though, so I guess I'm improving.

Yes I also have stopped having dreams about the case. Sadly only one of my friends is a true crime addict and I don't want to weird out my other friends by randomly talking about murderers LOL, but I think I might see her this week so I'm going to ask her if she's been following it.

They wouldn't have been in a position to access the keys to the cage and in order to access the keys, they would need to access the key lockbox which requires an employee swipe card (on the back of the Walmart ID card) as well as the corresponding PIN. Ammo goes to the ammo case as quickly as possible, again with an employee and manager.

Once it's in the ammo case, employees must call for at least an assistant manager to open it for a customer. They will only open a case after seeing a valid PAL and if the customer wants to purchase, the employee walks it to a cashier familair with handling ammo sales, must review the PAL again before the transaction commences, the till asks questions which require them to verify PAL is current and when the transaction completes, the manager carries the ammo to the door and hands it to the customer as they walk out.

It would be far easier to simply get someone they knew, with PAL, to simply buy them the ammo they needed.

Yeah I highly doubt you can shoplift anything like that from Walmart. It's Walmart. I know it doesn't seem like they have it together as a company when you go there. But they really do for stuff like that which could cause them a liability or significant financial losses.

I'm wondering if Bryer maybe had some weirdo friends that he "spoke of politics" with, maybe who he had met through the internet, and would be able to obtain this kind of stuff. He was super weird but those guys generally are so I don't think that would be a deterrent to them befriending him.

 

[Zella]

I'm wondering if Bryer maybe had some weirdo friends like the people off that Frontline episode I mentioned, maybe who he had met through the internet, that he "spoke of politics" with, and would be able to obtain this kind of stuff. He was super weird but those guys generally are so I don't think that would be a deterrent to them befriending him.

The weird thing about Bryer is, at least based on people who have come forward, he liked to talk about Nazis to people who were clearly uncomfortable with the idea, but then, according to the one guy who was alt-right, he talked about being a communist. He's like the ultimate internet troll--"whatever you are, I'm not!"

It's certainly possible, though, that he had some online buddies that he didn't try to troll about politics and was straightforward with them about his interests, but they haven't come forward.

 

[elondriel]

Unlikely plus he’d only worked 5 weeks. However fraudulent credit card use could be involved.

This is likely potentially answered back in one of the first threads, but wouldn't know where to look. I know Bryer worked there a short time (two paychecks was that the comment??), but do we know how long Kam worked there? Was wondering if he was there first after graduating and then got Bryer a job there with him once he graduated? Or did they start same time?

Edit: just added a bit to the first line.

 

[Zella]

This is likely answered back in one of the first threads. I know Bryer worked there a short time (two paychecks was that the comment??), but do we know how long Kam worked there? Was wondering if he was there first after graduating and then got Bryer a job there with him once he graduated? Or did they start same time?

You know, I've wondered about this, too. Especially since Bryer's neighbor's mom mentioned seeing Kam all the time at WM as an employee. Would you really remember an employee who's only been there about a month that well, even if he was helpful, which she said he was, compared to one who's been there for several months?

Bryer's dad is the source for them both working there for 5 weeks. I think it's true Bryer was there for only 5 weeks, but it is certainly possible Kam was there longer, especially since he graduated the year before, and that Bryer's dad just wasn't aware of this fact. It would be less weird for Kam to have been working while Bryer was finishing school rather than spending a whole year apparently doing nothing, and it certainly may have been easier for them to get the same shifts if Kam had been there awhile and could pull strings. Might also explain where some of the money that Bryer's great-uncle referenced they left with came from.

Actually, some news articles mention them working there for several months, so maybe they did start at different times, and people are just assuming their time was the same, whether it was months or weeks. Hmm.

Edited to add source for neighbor's mom's statement: RCMP continue search for suspects in three B.C. slayings

 

[NJSleuth91]

The weird thing about Bryer is, at least based on people who have come forward, he liked to talk about Nazis to people who were clearly uncomfortable with the idea, but then, according to the one guy who was alt-right, he talked about being a communist. He's like the ultimate internet troll--"whatever you are, I'm not!"

It's certainly possible, though, that he had some online buddies that he didn't try to troll about politics and was straightforward with them about his interests, but they haven't come forward.

It's hard to get a read on whether he seriously believed in any of the politics or if it was more of a trying to find an identity and/or trolling thing. It was probably all of those at once to varying degrees depending on the day...you know how teenagers are.

But even so you can meet some very sketchy people by having certain interests even if you're not 100% committed to those interests. Like my husband is into cryptocurrency and he's really only peripherally into it, and he has met some very weird and sketchy people through that.

 

[Zella]

It's hard to get a read on whether he seriously believed in any of the politics or if it was more of a trying to find an identity and/or trolling thing. It was probably all of those at once to varying degrees depending on the day...you know how teenagers are.

But even so you can meet some very sketchy people by having certain interests even if you're not 100% committed to those interests. Like my husband is into cryptocurrency and he's really only peripherally into it, and he has met some very weird and sketchy people through that.

Yeah that's a good point. I really can't figure out if Bryer was sincere about any of his political interests or just delighted in shocking people. Maybe a bit of both. But I can see how advertising those as interests could lead to some unusual acquaintances. . . .

 

[NJSleuth91]

You know, I've wondered about this, too. Especially since Bryer's neighbor's mom mentioned seeing Kam all the time at WM as an employee. Would you really remember an employee who's only been there about a month that well, even if he was helpful, which she said he was, compared to one who's been there for several months?

Bryer's dad is the source for them both working there for 5 weeks. I think it's true Bryer was there for only 5 weeks, but it is certainly possible Kam was there longer, especially since he graduated the year before, and that Bryer's dad just wasn't aware of this fact. It would be less weird for Kam to have been working while Bryer was finishing school rather than spending a whole year apparently doing nothing, and it certainly may have been easier for them to get the same shifts if Kam had been there awhile and could pull strings. Might also explain where some of the money that Bryer's great-uncle referenced they left with came from.

Actually, some news articles mention them working there for several months, so maybe they did start at different times, and people are just assuming their time was the same, whether it was months or weeks. Hmm.

This makes sense and could explain the discrepancies. I bet Kam actually was there for several months.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Yeah that's a good point. I really can't figure out if Bryer was sincere about any of his political interests or just delighted in shocking people. Maybe a bit of both. But I can see how advertising those as interests could lead to some unusual acquaintances. . . .

I expect the report will have a lot of information on this whole thing. It was a high-profile part of the case despite there being no clear link between any ideologies and the murders. Plus it's been a big topic of discussion and public concern in the past few years in general. The RCMP likely is doing a lot of investigation into that part of it even if it is unrelated.

Unusual acquaintances, and maybe ones from areas where guns are everywhere and who want to make some kind of statement by making guns available to people in areas where they are harder to obtain. Just speculation.

 

[ktm44]

I highly doubt they would give a 19 year old who works at Walmart that much without a cosigner.

He could have applied for a Walmart Mastercard but they only give Walmart employees a $500 limit, providing they've worked for the company a year and they have a half decent credit score.