Canada - USA Trade War commencing March 2025

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  • #141
Nalvalny. You know t just glimpsed a headline and shrugged and moved on.
 
  • #142
The thing is, he'll ruin the US economy, too. We will have a lot of people getting poorer under Trump's policies. Tariffs will raise the prices for many necessities, and there may be cuts to "safety net" programs. There are debates going on now about cuts to various US government programs, such as Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. Medicaid is a health insurance program for the poor. Social Security is a retirement program that people pay into while they are working. Medicare is a government health insurance program for seniors, started in the 1960s. JMO

Yep, we know about your programs. We have them too, for the time being.

I guess seeing as your guy declared war on us, we might have zero sympathy if that happens.

It’s not on a personal level, of course, but we won’t be onside again for a very long time, if ever.

Canada did not start this, the USA started it.

Of course both countries will suffer. It is war.

1812
 
  • #143
Well if you spoke to *some* Canadians on a flight and they were critical of the PM I guess that’s a strong representation of all Canadians…


🤣 🤣🤣 Great post!
 
  • #144
Donald's assault on Canada has been so disrespectful that Canadians have had a strong reaction against the USA country, not the individuals. This is the second time that Donald is elected, so it's hard to look at the situation and believe that it's something that the country, as a whole, didn't want. That is, little was done to prevent it from happening twice, even though there was ample advance warning of what he planned to do. I have been reading about National Populism to better understand his strategies and goals.

Be sure to also read about malignant narcissism.
 
  • #145
This is hard for most of us in both country's hating what is going on and how it's effecting all. But how do us Canadians ever trust our neighbors after this. It's shown how easy it was to break agreements when we had a relatively good relationship what's to stop it from happening again? Both sides of everyday people are feeling this. People rebuilding homes in California and southern Carolina have to rebuild after the fires and the states needing to rebuild after flooding and storms the price of lumber is going to be crazy I know the mill my partner works in in BC have said they won't be discounting the tariffs from lumber that's going to be put on the buyer. When Ontario pulls the plug supplying electricity alot of people will feel that . Usually Canadians are friendly and helpful but we sure as heck aren't feeling that way. Trudeau is on his way out who ever takes his place as prime minister won't be that nice jmoo

While I don't wish suffering on my fellow Americans nor any Canadians, a part of me wishes Canada had just gone ahead and turned off the power and shut down the exports, full stop, today. I think it will take something drastic like that to end this nonsense.
 
  • #146
While I don't wish suffering on my fellow Americans nor any Canadians, a part of me wishes Canada had just gone ahead and turned off the power and shut down the exports, full stop, today. I think it will take something drastic like that to end this nonsense.


I think Dougie, who many hated last week, will pull the hydro soon.

Most Canadians are not buying items from the USA unless there is no alternative.

Trouble is, this is not a two party spat. It’s become much bigger.

If the goal posts are being moved every 48 hours, it’s hard to keep up.

It forces us to play hard ball and not waver, ever.

1812
 
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  • #147
  • #148
While I don't wish suffering on my fellow Americans nor any Canadians, a part of me wishes Canada had just gone ahead and turned off the power and shut down the exports, full stop, today. I think it will take something drastic like that to end this nonsense.
Canada seems to have chosen death by 1000 cuts rather than going for the throat and cutting off energy supply until tariffs are removed. I would go for the throat, but I'm not a politician. There's obviously more to it than we can see.

Going for the throat means the USA would run out of gas to run vehicles, planes, military and to heat homes. They would also lose the massive income they receive by selling refined Canadian oil. They would understand their mistake fast.
 
  • #149
Otto, we are in the market for a new PM. Interested?

You sound like the ideal candidate.

We need someone who won’t waffle.
 
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  • #150
I think Dougie, who many hated last week, will pull the hydro soon.

Most Canadians are not buying items from the USA unless there is no alternative.

Trouble is, this is not a two party spat. It’s become much bigger.

If the goal posts are being changed every 48 hours, it’s hard to keep up.

It forces us to play hard ball and not waver, ever.

1812
Constant wishy wash threats and moving the goal posts is what Donald is doing with cutting jobs and services in the USA. He is doing everything so fast, so randomly and recklessly that no one knows where to look, so they stop looking.

He's like a coyote that surrounds a prey, who spins around in fear until they get dizzy, then the coyote strikes. That's what Donald is doing in the USA and trying to do with Canada.

Thing is, Canadians will not look away. They will fact check everything and hold their ground. Canadians are watching Donald spin in circles, tripping over his belly, tariffs across the board, no tariffs on cars for a month, then tariffs on cars, maybe not on agriculture, maybe on softwood lumber, maybe steel, maybe not ... it's nonsense. Any tariffs means retaliation. Canada will not adjust the retaliation due to Donald's silly nonsense.
 
  • #151
Canada had 80 years of trade agreements with the USA. One agreement is that the USA wanted Canada and Mexico to manufacture some parts of the automotive industry because it was cheaper. Canada and Mexico agreed. It became the strongest trade agreement in the world.

Today, for no reason other than greed, Donald has torn up agreements he signed and turned against Canada. Consequently, Canada has learned the hard way that trusting the USA is a very dangerous option. Canadians can never make that mistake again.

Canada has a lot of what the USA needs. BC softwood lumber is higher quality than what is produced in the USA. NC, California, and perhaps SC (recent fires), means construction booms in all three states. Longstanding USA tariffs on Canadian softwood lumber are 14%. Donald has added 25% to those tariffs, meaning the USA consumer will now pay 40% extra for housing construction quality softwood lumber. This decision does not make anyone richer. It is not short term pain. This is a major financial hit to people who need softwood lumber to rebuild after natural disasters.

Canadians are always friendly and polite, but the sole purpose of this USA war against Canada is to cripple Canada's economy so that the USA can take what it wants while simultaneously trampling the rights of Indigenous Peoples and Canadians. Donald wants what Canada has, but he wants to steal it rather than pay for it. No prime minister is going to give Donald what he wants, so we'll see the same-old personal insults against the next prime minister that we saw against Trudeau (and every other world leader that stands up to Donald). Donald will name-call, insult, abuse and play dirty with the next prime minister as well. That appears to be all he knows.
Yup. Trumps agenda is to take over Canada's resources. (Remember when he said that Canada had a giant tap and was using it to divert rivers to the Pacific, rather than letting California have more water?? He's insane, but that was a tell!) All of that 51st state chatter is really about Canada's resources.

And look at how the US is now treating Ukraine...after their rare minerals.
And why the talk about Greenland? Oh, yeah, they have resources. Trump wants to take all.
I'd tell you what I think about that, but I would be kicked off WS, with good reason. (Thanks Mods for all that you do!)

The US is just greedy and trying to grab resources. Just like how they interfered in the Middle East over history. It was all about the oil and they wanted it.
 
  • #152
Yup. Trumps agenda is to take over Canada's resources. (Remember when he said that Canada had a giant tap and was using it to divert rivers to the Pacific, rather than letting California have more water?? He's insane, but that was a tell!) All of that 51st state chatter is really about Canada's resources.

And look at how the US is now treating Ukraine...after their rare minerals.
And why the talk about Greenland? Oh, yeah, they have resources. Trump wants to take all.
I'd tell you what I think about that, but I would be kicked off WS, with good reason. (Thanks Mods for all that you do!)

The US is just greedy and trying to grab resources. Just like how they interfered in the Middle East over history. It was all about the oil and they wanted it.
Everything that Donald is doing today with illegal tariffs and false claims against Canada is to strip Indigenous Peoples of their rights, and to rob Canada of natural resources.

Donald has terminated promised funding to Ukraine, and locked Ukraine out of security information. He wants to cripple Ukraine so he can rob the country of natural resources.

Donald sees something he wants, and he wants to take it. If he can't take it, he wants to cause harm until his intended target is too weak to fight, and then he takes it.
 
  • #153
The only exception in Canadian history was the Social Credit party, which was anti-immigrant, sectarian and populist, although they never controlled the country. They did win a provincial election in Alberta, though.

BC had Bill Vander Zlam and WC Bennett as premiers as social credit leaders. VanderZlam was not good in the end
 
  • #154
Well if you spoke to *some* Canadians on a flight and they were critical of the PM I guess that’s a strong representation of all Canadians…
Canada is a Parliamentary Democracy as opposed to a Republic (although both are considered types of democracy).

We do not elect "our Leader". Our political parties choose their leader. Then those parties all field local candidates to run in election.

We have numerous political parties and people cast their vote for the candidates from those parties within their electoral ridings. Seats in our House of Commons are based upon the seat won in those electoral ridings. Win the local riding = go sit in Ottawa in the House of Commons. Whichever party wins the most seats forms government.

If the Liberal Party, the NDP, the Greens, or the Conservatives, or whatever party, win the most seats, then they become the governing party and the individual who they happen to have selected as their party leader becomes the Prime Minister.

In Canada, a "Majority Government" results when one party or another wins the majority of seats (ridings) so can outvote any other party on any policies they wish to advance. A "Minority Government" results when the party who has won the most seats still forms government but has not won enough seats to force through legislation and therefore must work cooperatively with at least one other political party to enact legislation or advance government business. Because of this, and because we have more than two political parties who win seats, the extreme right or the extreme left coming to power in this nation is extremely unlikely because the overwhelmingly vast majority of Canadian citizens are actually centrists, right of centre, or left of centre .... and not extreme left or extreme right. The extremes may be the "loudest voices" you hear, but they are the minority. They all have their own parties. In the US, both extremes of the politcal spectrum - left or right - vote with the Republicans or Democrats depending which side of the poli-spectrum they are on. And, sometimes for an 'Independent'.

Because we don't elect "our Leader", it is quite easy to take them out/have them resign as Justin Trudeau did in December ... because there is 'no loyalty' required to protect the leader by their party. They can simply choose to get themselves a new party Leader. The Liberal Party of Canada is currently in the process of doing just that. Whoever they choose will become Prime Minister until such time as the next election occurs.

We don't have "Executive Orders", or a Leader who can Veto what has passed through Parliament etc. or deciding to over-rule or cancel anything. If the Members of Parliament pass something - that's it; it's done. If they vote to cancel something - that's it; its done.

As well, our elections don't last years. Once the writ is dropped (ie: election called), campaigning begins immediately and Canadians vote for their riding respresentative (Member of Parliament). The election MUST be held anywhere from 37 days (min) to 51 days (max) after the election has been called. Those days allow for any potential candidates to "campaign". It is illegal here to campaign outside of those days or to run campaign ads outside of those days. We also have legal limits as to maximum that any one entity can spend on ads during an election campaign. Our entire federal election is held then (all seats) -- we don't have mid-terms.

Our Provincial elections run in the same manner, just at the Provincial level.

Short, sweet, and an individual doesn't have to be a rich or have millions of dollars 'backing them' to run or to win.

.
 
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  • #155
I think Dougie, who many hated last week, will pull the hydro soon.

Most Canadians are not buying items from the USA unless there is no alternative.

Trouble is, this is not a two party spat. It’s become much bigger.

If the goal posts are being moved every 48 hours, it’s hard to keep up.

It forces us to play hard ball and not waver, ever.

1812
Our local produce market in bc now has Australian cherrys and grapes and a few other new Aussie fruit and veggies and more fruit from mexico it took 2 weeks to switch suppliers to switch out brands they heard what the customers were saying. We are hoping Ontario cuts the power and hoping the minerals get cut off.we are angry . I know the mill my partner works at is trying to figure out what's going to happen if orders get cancelled but I do know they aren't going to eat the tariff on the lumber that's on the consumer. We know way back in the day they worked two days a week and EI payed 3 days a week. Hopefully if it slows down this will happen again . Jmoo
 
  • #156
Canada is a Parliamentary Democracy as opposed to a Republic (although both are considered types of democracy).

We do not elect "our Leader". Our political parties choose their leader. Then those parties all field local candidates to run in election.

We have numerous political parties and people cast their vote for the candidates from those parties within their electoral ridings. Seats in our House of Commons are based upon the seat won in those electoral ridings. Win the local riding = go sit in Ottawa in the House of Commons. Whichever party wins the most seats forms government.

If the Liberal Party, the NDP, the Greens, or the Conservatives, or whatever party, win the most seats, then they become the governing party and the individual who they happen to have selected as their party leader becomes the Prime Minister.

In Canada, a "Majority Government" results when one party or another wins the majority of seats (ridings) so can outvote any other party on any policies they wish to advance. A "Minority Government" results when the party who has won the most seats still forms government but has not won enough seats to force through legislation and therefore must work cooperatively with at least one other political party to enact legislation or advance government business. Because of this, and because we have more than two political parties who win seats, the extreme right or the extreme left coming to power in this nation is extremely unlikely because the overwhelmingly vast majority of Canadian citizens are actually centrists, right of centre, or left of centre .... and not extreme left or extreme right. The extremes may be the "loudest voices" you hear, but they are the minority. They all have their own parties. In the US, both extremes of the politcal spectrum - left or right - vote with the Republicans or Democrats depending which side of the poli-spectrum they are on. And, sometimes for an 'Independent'.

Because we don't elect "our Leader", it is quite easy to take them out/have them resign as Justin Trudeau did in December ... because there is 'no loyalty' required to protect the leader by their party. They can simply choose to get themselves a new party Leader. The Liberal Party of Canada is currently in the process of doing just that. Whoever they choose will become Prime Minister until such time as the next election occurs.

We don't have "Executive Orders", or a Leader who can Veto what has passed through Parliament etc. or deciding to over-rule or cancel anything. If the Members of Parliament pass something - that's it; it's done. If they vote to cancel something - that's it; its done.

As well, our elections don't last years. Once the writ is dropped (ie: election called), campaigning begins immediately and Canadians vote for their riding respresentative (Member of Parliament). The election MUST be held anywhere from 37 days (min) to 51 days (max) after the election has been called. Those days allow for any potential candidates to "campaign". It is illegal here to campaign outside of those days or to run campaign ads outside of those days. We also have legal limits as to maximum that any one entity can spend on ads during an election campaign. Our entire federal election is held then (all seats) -- we don't have mid-terms.

Our Provincial elections run in the same manner, just at the Provincial level.

Short, sweet, and an individual doesn't have to be a rich or have millions of dollars 'backing them' to run or to win.

.
Thanks Vern for a very good explanation of our electoral system in Canada.
 
  • #157
Constant wishy wash threats and moving the goal posts is what Donald is doing with cutting jobs and services in the USA. He is doing everything so fast, so randomly and recklessly that no one knows where to look, so they stop looking.

...
RSBM,

I really have to wonder, after watching the stocks crash yesterday (the ones we knew would crash: ie: automakers, all those American Banks that according to DT aren't allowed to operate in Canada [yet another DT lie BTW a American Banks are in business up here - that's why their stcks crashed]) etc

...

Then with The Donald today trying to walk back his tariffs ...

Who bought stocks at their highly devalued prices yesterday ... knowing they would increase today if his walk-back had worked (it didn't as Canada told him that all our reciprocal tariffs will stay on until every one he placed on us is gone)???

Which rich folks tried to get richer knowing that immediate walk-back attempt was going to happen? Who knew?

Maybe that's just me.
 
  • #158
Otto it is not as much about the democracy or not as it is about that electoral vote and bipartisan system.

I understand that the majority of Americans did not vote for Donald Trump, but he did win the majority of the votes. We understand. A nation divided almost right down the middle.

77,303,568 votes for DJT

80 775 948 not for DJT
: 75 019 230 - Harris
: 2 878 359 - for "others"

From this link at The American Presidential Project:

1741229791300.webp
 
  • #159
Our local produce market in bc now has Australian cherrys and grapes and a few other new Aussie fruit and veggies and more fruit from mexico it took 2 weeks to switch suppliers to switch out brands they heard what the customers were saying. We are hoping Ontario cuts the power and hoping the minerals get cut off.we are angry . I know the mill my partner works at is trying to figure out what's going to happen if orders get cancelled but I do know they aren't going to eat the tariff on the lumber that's on the consumer. We know way back in the day they worked two days a week and EI payed 3 days a week. Hopefully if it slows down this will happen again . Jmoo

I'm in ON and haven't seen any fresh produce from the US in our grocery stores. Produce is coming in from other sources. There are still some dry goods from US owned companies, but those products are getting left on the shelves. What a shame that our good, free trade agreement has come to this.
 
  • #160
I've never been a fan of Trudeau, but Canada has a democracy. Sometimes people elect someone we like, sometimes it's someone we don't like. All we can do is wait and hope for better next time.

The last time Trudeau was elected he had a minority governments, meaning he was unable to do anything without forming a coalition with another party. Canada has more than two political parties, so this worked.

Unlike the USA, Canadians do not see government as two opposing teams. Therefore, it's less likely that Canada will see the rise of national populism to unify the nation by turning identifiable groups (such as migrants, Canadians) into villains that must be "punished" without due process. Canada first as a policy, sure, but a Canadians prime minister making false statements (e.g.: USA subsidizes Canada with hundreds of billions) and then publicly stating that foreigners need to be punished with tariffs? No, Canadians will never fall for that. That's ridiculous.
I agree with your take. (Although I like Trudeau more that you do. Perhaps it's because you live in Alberta, where the oil & gas industry is key. and that's fair.)

The dual Republican/Democratic divide in the USA creates a strong tribe mentality. In Canada, people are more willing to shift parties, based on policy. And that means we are more likely to stand together in the end.

We Canadians will stick together. We might have squabbles, as siblings do, but in the end we aren't all that different.
 
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