NOT GUILTY Daniel Penny on Trial for manslaughter and negligent homicide of Jordan Neely #4

[jepop]

NYC CPL,; rule seems to be that jury should attempt to render a verdict on Count two ( negligence) if they are hung on Count 1. Jury hasn't said they can't reach verdict on Count 2. Maybe judge has to give Allen charge for count 1 first. Sounds to me like jury doesn't disagree on Count two according to tweet just up thread by inner city press. Defense does not want jury to consider count two. Prosecution says they should according to that tweet.

ETA always thought it was standard for jury to consider lesser charge if finding Ng on count 1. In the case of hung on primary charge not sure. But rules seem to say they can go ahead. Jmo

 

[shotgun09]

I am just a joe citizen here, but if count 1 relates to Penny's ACTIONS, and the jury cannot reach a unanimous decision, then Count 2, regarding and defining the "actions" should not be considered.

anyone?

"How can you have any pudding, if you don't eat yer meat?"

 

[Ontario Mom]

Update of 11:45 am - ADA Dafna Yoran tells the Court Officer, "We're good."He: They're ready.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1865075613297516562

 

[Ontario Mom]

I am just a joe citizen here, but if count 1 relates to Penny's ACTIONS, and the jury cannot reach a unanimous decision, then Count 2, regarding and defining the "actions" should not be considered.

anyone?

"How can you have any pudding, if you don't eat yer meat?"

Defense would agree, which is why they said they can't move to count 2 if count 1 isn't dealt with first (paraphrasing).

 

[fred&edna]

If the jury found him not guilty on first charge... that's one thing, and possibly allows them to consider second charge. BUT, since it's a hung jury on first charge doesn't this change the situation??

jmo

 

[Ontario Mom]

AND THERE IT IS.......

Daniel Penny and his lawyers walk in.Come to order!Judge Wiley: What's the defense position?Penny's lawyer Kenniff: We are moving for a mistrial, after 20 hours of deliberations over 4 days, in a case that is not factually complex

https://twitter.com/x/status/1865076116140015973

 

[Ontario Mom]

Penny's lawyer Kenniff: We oppose the Allen charge as coersive.ADA Dafna Yoran: We want the Allen charge. And we may be willing to dismiss count 1, to get them to count 2.Judge Wiley: They may hang on both. Over the defense objection I will give the Allen charge

https://twitter.com/x/status/1865076746824856013

 

[Ontario Mom]

Judge: They went several hours without asking for any exhibits. They are methodical and conscientious. I will follow the CJI script for the Allen charge. Bring the jury out.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1865077485387333819

 

[Sundog]

Penny's lawyer Kenniff: We oppose the Allen charge as coersive.ADA Dafna Yoran: We want the Allen charge. And we may be willing to dismiss count 1, to get them to count 2.Judge Wiley: They may hang on both. Over the defense objection I will give the Allen charge

https://twitter.com/x/status/1865076746824856013

I agree with the defense that the Allen charge is coercive. I was just researching this last night. Judges, it seems to me, have to tread carefully with this kind of decision. JMO, IANAL.

 

[Rolypolyoly]

None of that changes the fact that eyewitness memories -- are often flawed.

No matter who the eyewitness is.

A false memory and a deliberate lie are two very different things.

I think, as a mother who was concerned enough to try to barricade her child in, I would quite clearly remember if the man in question had lunged at, and threatened to kill us.

I believe DP added this is to his statement that he thought would be in his favour. That wasn't the only lie he told in his interview, he also evaded directly answering some questions.
These were deliberate lies IMO.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Judge Wiley: You 12 were selected to serve, both side expressed confidence in your fairness. There's no reason to think a future jury would be more intelligent or hard-working. I am asking you to resume deliberations. Be flexible and willing to change position

https://twitter.com/x/status/1865078593329496524

 

[IDK]

Update of 11:45 am - ADA Dafna Yoran tells the Court Officer, "We're good."He: They're ready.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1865075613297516562

The ADA seemed really caught off guard by this. IMO.

 

[sandcastle00]

If he is convicted on either count then you sadly won’t see good samaritans in NYC ever again. I’ve lived here my entire life and it’s not the same city it used to be - much more dangerous.

 

[Ontario Mom]

If he is convicted on either count then you sadly won’t see good samaritans in NYC ever again. I’ve lived here my entire life and it’s not the same city it used to be - much more dangerous.

I see comments like this all the time.
And then someone else comes along and claims it's the safest city they've ever lived in.
I guess it all depends on perspective.

I've been to NYC once in the 90s. I was horrified, and will never go back.
Small town/low crime rate is my perspective.

jmo

 

[Ontario Mom]

Judge Wiley at the end said he thinks the jury could move on to consider Count 2 even if deadlocked on Count 1, but "I have found no support for it." He asks the DA's brain trust to work on it. Still here in the courtroom, wondering how fast jury will come back

https://twitter.com/x/status/1865080176779890693

 

[shotgun09]

I wonder if the 'protestors' are still there outside the courthouse, chanting "Guilty". ???? Cuz, surely that's helping....

 

[mickey2942]

I see comments like this all the time.
And then someone else comes along and claims it's the safest city they've ever lived in.
I guess it all depends on perspective.

I've been to NYC once in the 90s. I was horrified, and will never go back.
Small town/low crime rate is my perspective.

jmo

Agreed. I was last there about 25 years ago. It had changed significantly from the '70's and '80's. I was sad. It wasn't fun any longer.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Judge Wiley at the end said he thinks the jury could move on to consider Count 2 even if deadlocked on Count 1, but "I have found no support for it." He asks the DA's brain trust to work on it. Still here in the courtroom, wondering how fast jury will come back

https://twitter.com/x/status/1865080176779890693

This doesn't make any sense.
If the judge has no support for ordering the jury to do something, why in the heck is he ordering them to do it?

 

[sandcastle00]

I see comments like this all the time.
And then someone else comes along and claims it's the safest city they've ever lived in.
I guess it all depends on perspective.

I've been to NYC once in the 90s. I was horrified, and will never go back.
Small town/low crime rate is my perspective.

jmo

I don’t really pay attention when people compare to other cities and say it’s safer than “XYZ” because I honestly find it irrelevant. Just because another city has a higher murder rate for example doesn’t excuse the increased crime that happens here in NYC or make it OK. I’ve lived here my entire life and I’ve lost track of how many family members and friends have been attacked in broad daylight just going about their business, held at gunpoint, etc. That has all happened within the past few years. They found an AR-15 in a subway trash can a few weeks ago. It is much worse than it has been in a long time (probably since the 80s).

 

[Ontario Mom]

Judge Wiley believes everyone will ultimately have to figure out whether jurors can move onto count 2, criminally negligent homicide, if hung on count 1, manslaughterJudge thinks it's legally possible but can't find support for it"I just intuit from case law"

https://twitter.com/x/status/1865082153748386034