NOT GUILTY Daniel Penny on Trial for manslaughter and negligent homicide of Jordan Neely #4

[Linda7NJ]

Yet, once again- Penny didn't know his record at the time of the incident.

So what?
He wasn’t wrong.
Penny and everyone else on that train INSTINCTUALLY understood he was dangerous. They were right.
Neely even said so.

 

[IDK]

IMO, Anne Mitchelltree would have been very grateful if someone had stepped up to prevent JN from attacking her:

“An assault victim of the “dangerous” homeless man choked to death by a Marine on a northbound F train this week ripped the city for not forcing her attacker to get the mental health treatment he clearly needed. “

“Anne Mitcheltree said she was randomly punched in the head in June 2021 by Jordan Neely inside S.K. Deli Market on 2nd Avenue in the East Village. The attack caused swelling and substantial pain but left no permanent damage.”

“After police arrested Neely, Mitcheltree, 65, assumed her aggressor would face charges and psychiatric lockup.”

“They told me we have him, he’s in custody, we’re going to press charges,” Mitcheltree, a creative arts therapist with New York City Health + Hospitals for over 40 years, told The Post.

“I thought the judge would have forced him to take psychiatric meds, but it seems like he bounced out.”

Exclusive | Assault victim of Jordan Neely rips NYC for failing to address his mental health issues

Anne Mitcheltree, who was attacked by Jordan Neely in 2021, ripped the city for not forcing the homeless man to get the mental health treatment he clearly needed.

nypost.com

 

[Leilei]

Be honest, Neely was a menace to society and NYC is under anarco tyranny

The fact remains that Neely is the victim in this case. He is not on trial. He is dead. He could have eventually gotten his life together, gotten MH treatment, addiction treatment, etc... and lived a productive, happy life. But he didn't get that opportunity. Many people with MH and addiction issues, and yes, even criminal warrants, go on to do well in their lives.
IMO.

 

[DS2021]

IMO, Anne Mitchelltree would have been very grateful if someone had stepped up to prevent JN from attacking her:

Even if that person put him in a chokehold and killed him in front of her?

 

[Donswife48]

I also believe JN issued credible death threats. A mother and son hid behind a stroller and a high school student prayed as Jordan Neely yelled "someone is going to die today".

That, to me is a credible threat - and it is reasonable for me to assume it wasn't JN who was going to die, but one of the other people on the Subway. JMO

 

[DS2021]

I also believe JN issued credible death threats. A mother and son hid behind a stroller and a high school student prayed as Jordan Neely yelled "someone is going to die today".

That, to me is a credible threat - and it is reasonable for me to assume it wasn't JN who was going to die, but one of the other people on the Subway. JMO

Do you think a 6 minute chokehold was a valid response?

Thats where my issue lays. There are a multitude of other ways he could've subdued him

 

[Lilibet]

Daniel Penny and his lawyers come in, get the note.Judge Wiley: So got the next note. It states, We the jury request further clarification on whether a person reasonably believes force is necessary. We would like more on what is a reasonable person

https://twitter.com/x/status/1865086767285575731

It sounds as if the jury is trying to decide if Mr Penny initially restraining Mr Neely forcefully was reasonable. As we’ve said here many times, that is not what the charge involves. The question the jury has to decide is whether it was reasonable to continue to exert this force to the point of death when help was available to restrain Mr Neely. The answer to that is a resounding NO!

I suppose this is moot if the initial manslaughter charge has been dismissed, but it might apply to the second charge. I hope the jury can understand that Mr Penny has not been charged for his initial act of restraining Mr Neely. I’m thinking they don’t realize that since we’ve pointed this out so many times on this thread in response to continual posts about his heroism. No one denies that restraining Mr Neely was the right thing to do. But killing him was unnecessary and it’s highly unlikely he would have died of sickling or drug use on that subway car had Mr Penny not restrained him for too long.

JMO

 

[IDK]

Even if that person put him in a chokehold and killed him in front of her?

Taking this comment at face value— I have no idea, it wasn’t mentioned in the article.

 

[Leilei]

I also believe JN issued credible death threats. A mother and son hid behind a stroller and a high school student prayed as Jordan Neely yelled "someone is going to die today".

That, to me is a credible threat - and it is reasonable for me to assume it wasn't JN who was going to die, but one of the other people on the Subway. JMO

I don't recall that being in testimony, wasn't it said to be false by the mother?
IMO.

 

[Seattle1]

12/6/24

https://pix11.com/news/local-news/manslaughter-charge-dismissed-in-nyc-subway-chokehold-trial-after-deadlock/

 

[Donswife48]

Do you think a 6 minute chokehold was a valid response?

Thats where my issue lays. There are a multitude of other ways he could've subdued him

I believe a restraint was warranted. I'm not aware that there were other ways he could have subdued him without JN breaking free. If only the LE wouldn't have taken so long to respond. The defense said Penny told police in a voluntary stationhouse interview he was holding Neely until police arrived. It took the NYPD more than seven minutes to get there and it took 20 minutes for EMS to arrive.

Daniel Penny trial enters closing arguments in Jordan Neely's subway chokehold death

The Daniel Penny trial entered closing arguments Monday in the chokehold death of Jordan Neely on the subway in Manhattan.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[DS2021]

Exclusive | Jordan Neely had long history of mental health issues before tragic NYC subway chokehold death

Jordan Neely had more than a dozen run-ins with police due to his mental health issues — part of a lengthy history of instability that was tragically never remedied.

nypost.com

If they could've gotten him into a program with the right meds, he may have been ok.

It doesn't matter now. Hes dead. All we can do is try to is try to figure out how to stop it from happening again

 

[PrairieWind]

Because the charge was dismissed with prejudice?

Because the State dismissed after jeopardy attached. So that dismissal is with prejudice.

 

[DS2021]

I believe a restraint was warranted

Would there have been other forms of restraints that wouldn't have cut of his airway?

 

[Love Never Fails]

Neely was a mentally ill young man and he was struggling. This post is awful.

I agree he was mentally I’ll likely caused by drugs. Doesn’t give him the right to go out in public and threaten others.

 

[Sillybilly]

Thank you. We need some actual legal expertise on this thread right now. I admit that I don't pretend to be one.

Behind in the discussion, and no lawyer here, but I'm thinking it is possible that the actual instructions to the jury included wording (or in may cases an assistive flow chart) that, paraphrased by me "in the event you do not not find the accused guilty on Count 1, you may proceed to consider Count 2..."

IF the wording in the instructions allowed for that (and I'm fairly convinced it would have), then the defence would have been aware of it, so I'm not sure what the kerfuffle is about.

 

[Love Never Fails]

And because of Penny, we'll never know if his threats were merely just threats/talking. The analogy can be made to a shooter shooting an unarmed man because he thought he was armed.

And thankfully because of Penny lives may have been saved. Just the thought that other passengers had to move to another car is threatening and frightening. Why should they have to move out of their places because of one? I do not believe Penny intended to kill. He intended to stop the guy.

 

[fred&edna]

I have no idea what evidence or testimony proved Daniel Penny wanted (or intended) Jordan Neely to die?

IIRC, there was no testimony as to when Jordan Neely died.

I just don't see Daniel Penny's actions as reckless nor blame-worthy.

jmo

 

[Seattle1]

Behind in the discussion, and no lawyer here, but I'm thinking it is possible that the actual instructions to the jury included wording (or in may cases an assistive flow chart) that, paraphrased by me "in the event you do not not find the accused guilty on Count 1, you may proceed to consider Count 2..."

IF the wording in the instructions allowed for that (and I'm fairly convinced it would have), then the defence would have been aware of it, so I'm not sure what the kerfuffle is about.

While this is generally how many juror instructions are written, it was not true in this specific case:

Before deliberations began Tuesday afternoon, Wiley told the jury that it must come to a unanimous decision on the manslaughter charge before it would be allowed to consider criminally negligent homicide.

Judge dismisses manslaughter charge in Daniel Penny trial after jury deadlock

The anonymous jury will still consider the lesser charge of criminally negligent homicide.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Sillybilly]

Would there have been other forms of restraints that wouldn't have cut of his airway?

I arrived at a robbery one day where a woman with a machete was just leaving the store, still wielding the weapon. I knew 911 had been called but followed her from a safe distance so as not to lose track of her. An unarmed citizen jumped out of a truck with a blanket, followed her through a parking lot and brought her down at the ankles from behind, covering the machete with the blanket. IMO, that guy was a hero.