NOT GUILTY Daniel Penny on Trial for manslaughter and negligent homicide of Jordan Neely #4

[jepop]

I'm not seeing anything wrong with what the court has decided here. The jury deliberated on the higher charge, but after several days were still hung. That charge gets thrown out because by this point there's not going to be a unanimous verdict on it. The jury now considers the lesser charge, as one would logically expect.

Yeah I'm with you on that. Why wouldn't defense be happy that instead of a mistrial on count 1 and the pros being allowed to retry DP on that charge, there's now no chance of it? Pros dismissed the charge and that' s that. Moo

If judge had called mistrial Friday, DP could be retried on count 1. As it currently stands, jury will deliberate the lesser negligence charge on Monday I believe. If hung, then a retrial would only apply to the lesser charge. Seems like a good deal for DP to me.

Moo If the jury had not been hung on count one but decided not guilty then they would have moved on to deliberate the lesser charge just as they will do on Monday.

Anyway, that's the way I understand the situ.

If he's found guilty of criminal negligence I doubt he'll serve much of a sentence. But he would be forced into some accountability under the law. Moo

 

[katydid23]

The defense would have brought that up, don't you think?

Maybe they thought it was a bad or losing strategy. I know my friend really hates to bring it up because he doesn't want people thinking that all vets are 'shaky' or 'crazy' after deployment.

I just think it is a slight possibility that he got kind of 'stuck' in a dark place, while he was holding the man down, trying to stop the threat. I imagine that DP heard that man loudly threatening that 'people were going to die', and it triggered something in him.

 

[katydid23]

There were definitely missed opportunities with Neely. It's very sad. And he is not alone in this - it's happening with others too. Unfortunately when people lack insight they do require outside help and intervention.

True, and that is where much of the problem lies. So many troubled souls, falling between the cracks, not getting needed help, and some are acting out violently in public.

I am in Los Angeles, and our Metro Transit System has had a huge spike in violent assaults upon passengers and drivers. Some shootings, some stabbings and many physical assaults. A lot of them by transients, or addicts, or robbers, suddenly attacking people on the platform, or in the seats, often for no apparent reason.

People have reason to be frightened. So if they are in a closed tube and someone starts screaming violent threats, they are going to assume it is a real threat. That is how people react now because of recent stabbings and assaults.

I wish JN's friends/family had been monitoring his medications. That is what we all need to happen these days. People need to make sure their loved ones are responding to treatment and it is up to all of us to help.


LA METRO

Total crimes within LA Metro system surge over 65% in early 2024​

JUNE 26, 2024

Riding on the Metro: Wave of Violence on Public Transit Prompts Surge in Police Presence​

Riding on the Metro: Wave of Violence on Public Transit Prompts Surge in Police Presence - Los Angeles Airport Peace Officers Association

In February, Metro passenger Darryl Winborn died after being pepper-sprayed by another passenger on board a bus in Koreatown after the two had gotten into an argument. In March, a […]

laapoa.com

In March, a man allegedly threatened a Metro bus driver with a firearm, causing the driver to crash into several vehicles in downtown L.A. In April, Mirna Arauz was stabbed to death by a man in an unprovoked attack as she exited the Metro B Line train at the Universal City Station in Studio City. In May, Metro bus passenger Juan Luis Gomez-Ramirez was killed by a suspect who shot him in the head as he was getting off at a stop in Commerce. And on June 21, Juan Garcia was fatally shot on a Metro E Line train near the La Cienega/Jefferson Station in South L.A., following an altercation between the victim and four male suspects.

 

[Rolypolyoly]

There was much help available for JN but it could not be forced on him and he was not compliant:

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/jordan-neely-death-subway.html

On February 9, 2023, Neely stood before Judge Ellen Biben on the 11th floor at 100 Centre Street. He had taken a plea in the 2021 felony assault, and his case was being heard in the novel “Alternative to Incarceration” court. Established in 2017, the ATI court has a “problem-solving” mission, connecting eligible defendants who have knotty issues related to drug use, mental health, or criminal history with a wide range of individualized therapeutic or supportive programs — housing, residential detox, anger management, outpatient therapy, medication compliance — in exchange for a guilty plea. The deal, Judge Biben reminds each defendant, is this: Adhere to the mandated program and the felony is erased from the record; ditch, rebel, or fail to follow its rules and the defendant will be sent upstate to serve their sentence.

Everyone — Neely’s lawyer, the state’s prosecutor, the judge, Neely himself, and the victim — had agreed he was a good candidate for the ATI court. Although he had been arrested for a violent crime, that behavior was related to “substance abuse and treatment noncompliance with mental-health medication,” the court record said. If he took his prescription meds and stayed off drugs, Neely could be stable. The plan was to conduct Neely directly from the court to Harbor House in the Bronx, a residential facility that specializes in treating people with co-occurring mental illness and drug issues.

After Neely was sworn in, Biben faced him.

Did he understand that he was pleading guilty to a class-D felony?

“Yes,” Neely said.

“Are you pleading guilty because you are, in fact, guilty?”

“Yes.”

Biben set forth the terms of the agreement, then asked Neely if he had left Rikers with his belongings. Neely said he didn’t have any. He was free to go. “You are going to be escorted” to the program, the judge told him. “But you actually have to go, physically and mentally, make it to the program, and commit to being in the program. Do you understand what I’m saying?”

“Yes, I do,” Neely said.

“This is very important,” Biben said. “Because if you leave the program, if you are discharged from the program, if you are out of touch with us, we will not be able to help you, and I’ll have to issue a bench warrant for your arrest. Understood?”

“Yes,” Neely said.

Once out of jail, Neely was “forced back into a world that was exactly the same as when he left,” says a mental-health-care provider at Rikers, a world of scarce options, where the left hand is out of touch with the right, where payment and insurance rules are byzantine and constraining, where well-meaning stakeholders disagree about the best path forward. From Harbor House, Neely had limited contact with the outside world. Its doors are not locked because it is not a prison — and because Medicaid will not pay for psychiatric treatment within a prison setting. Neely left Harbor House on February 22, 2023, less than two weeks after entering.

The reality for Jordan Neely and others like him is that he needed more intensive care than is available in any voluntary inpatient or outpatient program, and he required a more therapeutic kind of attention than exists in any locked one. The state can’t imprison people who aren’t criminals, and it can’t turn mental illness and drug dependence into a crime, a conundrum at the nub of every facile political dispute pitting the civil rights of people with homelessness against perceived threats to public safety. “There should be some transition from Rikers that maybe has a secure element to it but is also therapeutic,” says a person who met Neely during his stay in Rikers. “We’re killing ourselves to jerry-rig what doesn’t exist because it’s too much of a hot potato to talk about any kind of secure, residential, therapeutic environment.” Blizzard is clearer about this: “When he got locked up, that could have saved him.”

Biben issued a warrant for Neely’s arrest on February 23, and people went looking for him. A state-sponsored support team was out looking for him, as was BRC. But outreach workers don’t like the police and are not inclined to work with them, so when BRC encountered Neely twice in March, he wasn’t turned in. Once, a BRC worker saw him riding the train but was off duty and, in compliance with BRC rules, did not engage. Another time, BRC found Neely at the end of the A line at 4:30 a.m. “Sleeping upright,” the worker’s notes said. Neely accepted BRC’s offer of shelter that night and a ride to a converted Days Inn in the Bronx, but he left the next day before any paperwork could be completed. Blizzard ran into him too that spring, on the D train near 181st Street. He looked “dusty,” Blizzard remembers. “Like he was going through hard times.” Blizzard gave him $20 and bought him a sandwich.

In the middle of every night, BRC workers engage in an “end-of-line operation.” They station themselves at a subway line’s last stop and try to remove people who are homeless from the trains and take them to shelters — or hospitals, if needed. The Stillwell Avenue–Coney Island stop on the F is an enormous outdoor station with metal staircases that descend to the blocks below; it’s teeming by day with tourists and visitors to Nathan’s and the Wonder Wheel and deserted by midnight. Each train, as it pulls in and waits to be cleaned and taken out of service, looks like a sleeper car to the underworld. Men who are homeless, spread out two or three per car, sleep in otherwise abandoned carriages, some hunched and covered with blankets, others laid out and wearing their shoes from work. On April 8, 2023, at 3 a.m., one of these men was Jordan Neely. A BRC worker encountered him there but didn’t recognize him.

Neely was standing in the car, yelling, aggressive, and belligerent. When the BRC worker tried to engage him, Neely exposed himself and urinated in the train. The BRC worker called over police, and Neely shouted, “Just wait until they get here. I got something for you, just wait and see.”

In the encounter that followed, no one checked for a warrant. No one enlisted the help of the team’s nurse who was on the platform and had the authority to admit people involuntarily to the hospital. After some arguing, the NYPD did get Neely to agree to go to a shelter, but then the transport-van driver said he couldn’t be alone with him, and while the cops were off looking for a BRC worker to accompany him, Neely disappeared down the big metal stairs and into the night. In his notes, the outreach worker wrote, “He could be a harm to others or himself if left untreated.” The next day, when the worker showed photos of the incident at a meeting, the mistake became clear. Neely was gone again.

Thankyou for this. This is so sad.
I wonder why medicaid won't pay for psychiatric treatment in a prison facility? It seems to me that this could be a perfect time to administer it.

 

[Jade]

Daniel’s fund is still receiving contributions. I just looked and there are many donations from today, even one minute ago.

Many are writing messages of thanks and support as well.

Ah, bless his heart they gonna buy this off for him for sure.

And what’s left is for homeless mental health, yay!

And they thank him. Aren’t they just the sweetest.

This is where Justice is now to the highest fund raiser who can pay a slick wealthy professional to come all the way from Texas to muddy dark waters.

Would have been interesting if DP was a real citizen, a real regular man and on his own made his arrangements for his defense and carried it out without the outside assistance.

Would he have won the case or not on its own merits on regular man funds against a penniless, mental health sufferer with a tragic life with DP giving heartfelt testimony?


DP would be a much better man in the end and not made him into this grotesque killing ideologue the paranoid want along on the subway in case anyone needs killing.


All imo

 

[IDK]

Thankyou for this. This is so sad.
I wonder why medicaid won't pay for psychiatric treatment in a prison facility? It seems to me that this could be a perfect time to administer it.

I live in MD and all medical care in prisons is paid by a private medical insurer. Psychiatric care and meds are covered in MD prisons. Once the prisoner is released, they are put on Medicaid ( most meet the financial means test)

If NY doesn’t cover it, that is an anomaly in NY.

Look at Richard Allen in IN— he received plenty of psychiatric care in prison. All IMO.

 

[Love Never Fails]

People are posting all these hypotheticals that Penny acted because of the fear that Neely was going to touch someone but what if he wasn't going to? That's a real possibility. He could have gotten off at the next stop, which was a minute away, and a fellow passenger could have alerted LE that he was acting erratically and a description.

And maybe he would have killed someone because of the fentanyl and/or other drugs in his system. All we know for sure is Penny was trying to subdue him till police arrived.

 

[Love Never Fails]

There was much help available for JN but it could not be forced on him and he was not compliant:

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/jordan-neely-death-subway.html

On February 9, 2023, Neely stood before Judge Ellen Biben on the 11th floor at 100 Centre Street. He had taken a plea in the 2021 felony assault, and his case was being heard in the novel “Alternative to Incarceration” court. Established in 2017, the ATI court has a “problem-solving” mission, connecting eligible defendants who have knotty issues related to drug use, mental health, or criminal history with a wide range of individualized therapeutic or supportive programs — housing, residential detox, anger management, outpatient therapy, medication compliance — in exchange for a guilty plea. The deal, Judge Biben reminds each defendant, is this: Adhere to the mandated program and the felony is erased from the record; ditch, rebel, or fail to follow its rules and the defendant will be sent upstate to serve their sentence.

Everyone — Neely’s lawyer, the state’s prosecutor, the judge, Neely himself, and the victim — had agreed he was a good candidate for the ATI court. Although he had been arrested for a violent crime, that behavior was related to “substance abuse and treatment noncompliance with mental-health medication,” the court record said. If he took his prescription meds and stayed off drugs, Neely could be stable. The plan was to conduct Neely directly from the court to Harbor House in the Bronx, a residential facility that specializes in treating people with co-occurring mental illness and drug issues.

After Neely was sworn in, Biben faced him.

Did he understand that he was pleading guilty to a class-D felony?

“Yes,” Neely said.

“Are you pleading guilty because you are, in fact, guilty?”

“Yes.”

Biben set forth the terms of the agreement, then asked Neely if he had left Rikers with his belongings. Neely said he didn’t have any. He was free to go. “You are going to be escorted” to the program, the judge told him. “But you actually have to go, physically and mentally, make it to the program, and commit to being in the program. Do you understand what I’m saying?”

“Yes, I do,” Neely said.

“This is very important,” Biben said. “Because if you leave the program, if you are discharged from the program, if you are out of touch with us, we will not be able to help you, and I’ll have to issue a bench warrant for your arrest. Understood?”

“Yes,” Neely said.

Once out of jail, Neely was “forced back into a world that was exactly the same as when he left,” says a mental-health-care provider at Rikers, a world of scarce options, where the left hand is out of touch with the right, where payment and insurance rules are byzantine and constraining, where well-meaning stakeholders disagree about the best path forward. From Harbor House, Neely had limited contact with the outside world. Its doors are not locked because it is not a prison — and because Medicaid will not pay for psychiatric treatment within a prison setting. Neely left Harbor House on February 22, 2023, less than two weeks after entering.

The reality for Jordan Neely and others like him is that he needed more intensive care than is available in any voluntary inpatient or outpatient program, and he required a more therapeutic kind of attention than exists in any locked one. The state can’t imprison people who aren’t criminals, and it can’t turn mental illness and drug dependence into a crime, a conundrum at the nub of every facile political dispute pitting the civil rights of people with homelessness against perceived threats to public safety. “There should be some transition from Rikers that maybe has a secure element to it but is also therapeutic,” says a person who met Neely during his stay in Rikers. “We’re killing ourselves to jerry-rig what doesn’t exist because it’s too much of a hot potato to talk about any kind of secure, residential, therapeutic environment.” Blizzard is clearer about this: “When he got locked up, that could have saved him.”

Biben issued a warrant for Neely’s arrest on February 23, and people went looking for him. A state-sponsored support team was out looking for him, as was BRC. But outreach workers don’t like the police and are not inclined to work with them, so when BRC encountered Neely twice in March, he wasn’t turned in. Once, a BRC worker saw him riding the train but was off duty and, in compliance with BRC rules, did not engage. Another time, BRC found Neely at the end of the A line at 4:30 a.m. “Sleeping upright,” the worker’s notes said. Neely accepted BRC’s offer of shelter that night and a ride to a converted Days Inn in the Bronx, but he left the next day before any paperwork could be completed. Blizzard ran into him too that spring, on the D train near 181st Street. He looked “dusty,” Blizzard remembers. “Like he was going through hard times.” Blizzard gave him $20 and bought him a sandwich.

In the middle of every night, BRC workers engage in an “end-of-line operation.” They station themselves at a subway line’s last stop and try to remove people who are homeless from the trains and take them to shelters — or hospitals, if needed. The Stillwell Avenue–Coney Island stop on the F is an enormous outdoor station with metal staircases that descend to the blocks below; it’s teeming by day with tourists and visitors to Nathan’s and the Wonder Wheel and deserted by midnight. Each train, as it pulls in and waits to be cleaned and taken out of service, looks like a sleeper car to the underworld. Men who are homeless, spread out two or three per car, sleep in otherwise abandoned carriages, some hunched and covered with blankets, others laid out and wearing their shoes from work. On April 8, 2023, at 3 a.m., one of these men was Jordan Neely. A BRC worker encountered him there but didn’t recognize him.

Neely was standing in the car, yelling, aggressive, and belligerent. When the BRC worker tried to engage him, Neely exposed himself and urinated in the train. The BRC worker called over police, and Neely shouted, “Just wait until they get here. I got something for you, just wait and see.”

In the encounter that followed, no one checked for a warrant. No one enlisted the help of the team’s nurse who was on the platform and had the authority to admit people involuntarily to the hospital. After some arguing, the NYPD did get Neely to agree to go to a shelter, but then the transport-van driver said he couldn’t be alone with him, and while the cops were off looking for a BRC worker to accompany him, Neely disappeared down the big metal stairs and into the night. In his notes, the outreach worker wrote, “He could be a harm to others or himself if left untreated.” The next day, when the worker showed photos of the incident at a meeting, the mistake became clear. Neely was gone again.

Thanks Seattle. I love your common sense and stating the facts with the law. Appreciate you!

 

[JennieM]

And maybe he would have killed someone because of the fentanyl and/or other drugs in his system. All we know for sure is Penny was trying to subdue him till police arrived.

Jordan may have killed or could have killed, these are assumptions.

What is fact is that Daniel Penny caused Jordan’s death. That is not assumption.

 

[Lilibet]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed> There’s only one victim here and he’s dead because the man being prosecuted couldn’t be bothered to keep “the crackhead” alive. Penny was a hero when he subdued Mr Neely and a killer when he continued the chokehold beyond the point needed. At Websleuths, people being tried for crimes are not victims. We respect the justice system here. Wow!

 

[JennieM]

Of all the many people affected by this whole incident, with those effects ranging from inconvenienced to traumatized to losing their very life, Daniel Penny throughout it all has shown himself to be the LEAST affected by it in any way at all. Remarkably, Mr Neely's death seems to have had no effect on DP's emotional well-being, imo. I sincerely doubt he will feel any need for therapy or mental health support over this.

He is very detached. Was Daniel’s mental health questioned during the trial?

 

[shotgun09]

There was much help available for JN but it could not be forced on him and he was not compliant:

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/jordan-neely-death-subway.html

On February 9, 2023, Neely stood before Judge Ellen Biben on the 11th floor at 100 Centre Street. He had taken a plea in the 2021 felony assault, and his case was being heard in the novel “Alternative to Incarceration” court. Established in 2017, the ATI court has a “problem-solving” mission, connecting eligible defendants who have knotty issues related to drug use, mental health, or criminal history with a wide range of individualized therapeutic or supportive programs — housing, residential detox, anger management, outpatient therapy, medication compliance — in exchange for a guilty plea. The deal, Judge Biben reminds each defendant, is this: Adhere to the mandated program and the felony is erased from the record; ditch, rebel, or fail to follow its rules and the defendant will be sent upstate to serve their sentence.

Everyone — Neely’s lawyer, the state’s prosecutor, the judge, Neely himself, and the victim — had agreed he was a good candidate for the ATI court. Although he had been arrested for a violent crime, that behavior was related to “substance abuse and treatment noncompliance with mental-health medication,” the court record said. If he took his prescription meds and stayed off drugs, Neely could be stable. The plan was to conduct Neely directly from the court to Harbor House in the Bronx, a residential facility that specializes in treating people with co-occurring mental illness and drug issues.

After Neely was sworn in, Biben faced him.

Did he understand that he was pleading guilty to a class-D felony?

“Yes,” Neely said.

“Are you pleading guilty because you are, in fact, guilty?”

“Yes.”

Biben set forth the terms of the agreement, then asked Neely if he had left Rikers with his belongings. Neely said he didn’t have any. He was free to go. “You are going to be escorted” to the program, the judge told him. “But you actually have to go, physically and mentally, make it to the program, and commit to being in the program. Do you understand what I’m saying?”

“Yes, I do,” Neely said.

“This is very important,” Biben said. “Because if you leave the program, if you are discharged from the program, if you are out of touch with us, we will not be able to help you, and I’ll have to issue a bench warrant for your arrest. Understood?”

“Yes,” Neely said.

Once out of jail, Neely was “forced back into a world that was exactly the same as when he left,” says a mental-health-care provider at Rikers, a world of scarce options, where the left hand is out of touch with the right, where payment and insurance rules are byzantine and constraining, where well-meaning stakeholders disagree about the best path forward. From Harbor House, Neely had limited contact with the outside world. Its doors are not locked because it is not a prison — and because Medicaid will not pay for psychiatric treatment within a prison setting. Neely left Harbor House on February 22, 2023, less than two weeks after entering.

The reality for Jordan Neely and others like him is that he needed more intensive care than is available in any voluntary inpatient or outpatient program, and he required a more therapeutic kind of attention than exists in any locked one. The state can’t imprison people who aren’t criminals, and it can’t turn mental illness and drug dependence into a crime, a conundrum at the nub of every facile political dispute pitting the civil rights of people with homelessness against perceived threats to public safety. “There should be some transition from Rikers that maybe has a secure element to it but is also therapeutic,” says a person who met Neely during his stay in Rikers. “We’re killing ourselves to jerry-rig what doesn’t exist because it’s too much of a hot potato to talk about any kind of secure, residential, therapeutic environment.” Blizzard is clearer about this: “When he got locked up, that could have saved him.”

Biben issued a warrant for Neely’s arrest on February 23, and people went looking for him. A state-sponsored support team was out looking for him, as was BRC. But outreach workers don’t like the police and are not inclined to work with them, so when BRC encountered Neely twice in March, he wasn’t turned in. Once, a BRC worker saw him riding the train but was off duty and, in compliance with BRC rules, did not engage. Another time, BRC found Neely at the end of the A line at 4:30 a.m. “Sleeping upright,” the worker’s notes said. Neely accepted BRC’s offer of shelter that night and a ride to a converted Days Inn in the Bronx, but he left the next day before any paperwork could be completed. Blizzard ran into him too that spring, on the D train near 181st Street. He looked “dusty,” Blizzard remembers. “Like he was going through hard times.” Blizzard gave him $20 and bought him a sandwich.

In the middle of every night, BRC workers engage in an “end-of-line operation.” They station themselves at a subway line’s last stop and try to remove people who are homeless from the trains and take them to shelters — or hospitals, if needed. The Stillwell Avenue–Coney Island stop on the F is an enormous outdoor station with metal staircases that descend to the blocks below; it’s teeming by day with tourists and visitors to Nathan’s and the Wonder Wheel and deserted by midnight. Each train, as it pulls in and waits to be cleaned and taken out of service, looks like a sleeper car to the underworld. Men who are homeless, spread out two or three per car, sleep in otherwise abandoned carriages, some hunched and covered with blankets, others laid out and wearing their shoes from work. On April 8, 2023, at 3 a.m., one of these men was Jordan Neely. A BRC worker encountered him there but didn’t recognize him.

Neely was standing in the car, yelling, aggressive, and belligerent. When the BRC worker tried to engage him, Neely exposed himself and urinated in the train. The BRC worker called over police, and Neely shouted, “Just wait until they get here. I got something for you, just wait and see.”

In the encounter that followed, no one checked for a warrant. No one enlisted the help of the team’s nurse who was on the platform and had the authority to admit people involuntarily to the hospital. After some arguing, the NYPD did get Neely to agree to go to a shelter, but then the transport-van driver said he couldn’t be alone with him, and while the cops were off looking for a BRC worker to accompany him, Neely disappeared down the big metal stairs and into the night. In his notes, the outreach worker wrote, “He could be a harm to others or himself if left untreated.” The next day, when the worker showed photos of the incident at a meeting, the mistake became clear. Neely was gone again.

A truly eye opening article on the failures of the NYC powers that be. Jordan Neely was thrown to the wolves and destined to fail, by the courts. And the charging of DP IMO, was to attempt to cover those failures.

 

[Sundog]

Of all the many people affected by this whole incident, with those effects ranging from inconvenienced to traumatized to losing their very life, Daniel Penny throughout it all has shown himself to be the LEAST affected by it in any way at all. Remarkably, Mr Neely's death seems to have had no effect on DP's emotional well-being, imo. I sincerely doubt he will feel any need for therapy or mental health support over this.

He may get mental health support from his family and now he is likely getting it from his legal team. He will probably need funds to help him relocate and start his life over again somewhere where he is less known and can live safely from those who would want to hurt him.

And with regard to how he is affected, he may be the type of person who doesn't show his feelings in public and as a marine, he is likely trained to hold his feelings inside. Ultimately, who knows what lies in a person's heart. I think we are getting a lot of projection here, certainly speculation without knowledge.

 

[Leilei]

And maybe he would have killed someone because of the fentanyl and/or other drugs in his system. All we know for sure is Penny was trying to subdue him till police arrived.

He didn't have fentanyl in his system, did he?
Is there a link to that? I must have missed that.
IMO.

 

[Sundog]

I'm not seeing anything wrong with what the court has decided here. The jury deliberated on the higher charge, but after several days were still hung. That charge gets thrown out because by this point there's not going to be a unanimous verdict on it. The jury now considers the lesser charge, as one would logically expect.

The jury was instructed that they could not deliberate on the second charge unless they reached a verdict on the first charge. They were a hung jury on the first charge. Instead of following his own instructions and declaring a mistrial as he should have, the judge let the prosecution drop the charges on the first count in the middle of jury deliberations.

This will definitely go to the appellate courts, unless this week coming the judge rules that there is a mistrial in the case or DP is acquitted or found not guilty on the second charge, as he should be.

 

[Sundog]

Jordan may have killed or could have killed, these are assumptions.

What is fact is that Daniel Penny caused Jordan’s death. That is not assumption.

Actually, it's an opinion.

 

[Sundog]

Looking forward to Daniel Penny's day in court tomorrow and expecting that he will be exonerated. If not, the appeals will begin and it may take more time but, in the end, that will be the outcome.

 

[PuzzlinEvidence]

The jury was instructed that they could not deliberate on the second charge unless they reached a verdict on the first charge.

Right, the purpose of the instruction is that the jury must consider the higher charge first. Which they did, but it was a hung jury, and the higher charge is tossed out. This doesn't magically make the lower charge disappear, it still needs to be considered in turn.

I'm still not seeing any grounds for a mistrial, but as you allude to, DP can raise this on appeal if necessary.

 

[shotgun09]

Right, the purpose of the instruction is that the jury must consider the higher charge first. Which they did, but it was a hung jury, and the higher charge is tossed out. This doesn't magically make the lower charge disappear, it still needs to be considered in turn.

I'm still not seeing any grounds for a mistrial, but as you allude to, DP can raise this on appeal if necessary.

I believe the jury's initial instructions were clear. They tried to reach a unanimous decision on count 1, and were unsuccessful in doing so. The instructions then were to stop deliberating, they were finished. There was no instruction for splitting the baby and to now only consider Count 2.... Until the court decided AFTER THEY DELIBERATED...that this was now the way. This is jury tampering. This is jury intimidation and abuse. This is jury coercion. IMO. This is wrong IMO

 

[Sundog]

Right, the purpose of the instruction is that the jury must consider the higher charge first. Which they did, but it was a hung jury, and the higher charge is tossed out. This doesn't magically make the lower charge disappear, it still needs to be considered in turn.

I'm still not seeing any grounds for a mistrial, but as you allude to, DP can raise this on appeal if necessary.

That's not what happened. The higher charge was not tossed out because there was a hung jury on that charge. The higher charge was dropped by the prosecution. In the middle of jury deliberations.

Edited to complete post