Daniel Penny on Trial for manslaughter and negligent homicide of Jordan Neely

[lonetraveler]

Does anyone know if this trial is being live streamed.

 

[Rolypolyoly]

Marines are not taught to just put someone to sleep.

In which case, this particular Marine had no business putting a civilian in a chokehold.

 

[Donswife48]

Daniel Penny was in a damned if I do, damned if I don't situation. He chose to protect the people in that subway car.

If he is found guilty, then no one will step up again for fear of being imprisoned just because they choose to protect themselves and others. The many news stories of people being attacked in the subway or pushed off the platform, when other people ignore the situation is appalling. I firmly believe Daniel Perry saved people's lives, whether it was that day or in the future. JMO

 

[shotgun09]

Does anyone know if this trial is being live streamed.

It is not.
They don't play that in NYC. Cameras are never allowed.

 

[lonetraveler]

It is not.
They don't play that in NYC. Cameras are never allowed.

Might be a good thing or the would be butchered as a white racists.

 

[lonetraveler]

If he is found guilty, then no one will step up again for fear of being imprisoned just because they choose to protect themselves and others. The many news stories of people being attacked in the subway or pushed off the platform, when other people ignore the situation is appalling. I firmly believe Daniel Perry saved people's lives, whether it was that day or in the future. JMO

I think that Daniel Penny is a hero who probably saved lives that day. It really bothers me that some, including NY LE are portraying him to be a white racist who just decided to just nonchalantly kill a black man.

 

[lonetraveler]

If he is found guilty, then no one will step up again for fear of being imprisoned just because they choose to protect themselves and others. The many news stories of people being attacked in the subway or pushed off the platform, when other people ignore the situation is appalling. I firmly believe Daniel Perry saved people's lives, whether it was that day or in the future. JMO

Not interacting in a crime has become common place in NY and other big cities out of fear of being prosecuted.

 

[shotgun09]

Neeley wasn't just some " Joe civilian"....minding his own p's and q's. He wasn't performing Michael Jackson routines. Dude was threatening people on the train ! Witnessed by many.

 

[lonetraveler]

Neeley wasn't just some " Joe civilian"....minding his own p's and q's. He wasn't performing Michael Jackson routines. Dude was threatening people on the train ! Witnessed by many.

Exactly!

 

[lonetraveler]

I can just see the headlines the next day if Daniel Penny had not acted. People killed and injured on NY subway, no one understands how an ex-marine did not interfere and stop him.

 

[shotgun09]

I can just see the headlines the next day if Daniel Penny had not acted. People killed and injured on NY subway, no one understands how an ex-marine did not interfere and stop him.

Daniel Penny was not alone in attempting to stop the threat of Neeley. There were two other dudes who assisted in the takedown. Other passengers reacted in fear, some froze, and still others pulled out their phones and hit record.

This was not an average day on the train, that is for sure.

 

[Rolypolyoly]

I can just see the headlines the next day if Daniel Penny had not acted. People killed and injured on NY subway, no one understands how an ex-marine did not interfere and stop him.

Nobody said he shouldn't have stepped in, including me, but he approached him from behind for that choke, he could just as easily have kicked out his knee and pushed him to the floor and held him down, He was bigger and stronger than Neely, and military trained. It was 30 seconds between Neely entering the car and starting his rant and the train pulling up and the people in the car disembarking. Jordan Neely didn't have to die, and it's not OK with me that people seem to think he deserved to.
Again, I don't believe Penny was wrong for intervening, I don't think he showed any malicious intent, I certainly don't believe he is a racist white supremacist, I don't even think he should go to jail, but I do think the action he chose was wrong. He should have let go way before he did, people were warning him and he still chose to hold on. That's where I think he was wrong.

 

[Donswife48]

Nobody said he shouldn't have stepped in, including me, but he approached him from behind for that choke, he could just as easily have kicked out his knee and pushed him to the floor and held him down, He was bigger and stronger than Neely, and military trained. It was 30 seconds between Neely entering the car and starting his rant and the train pulling up and the people in the car disembarking. Jordan Neely didn't have to die, and it's not OK with me that people seem to think he deserved to.
Again, I don't believe Penny was wrong for intervening, I don't think he showed any malicious intent, I certainly don't believe he is a racist white supremacist, I don't even think he should go to jail, but I do think the action he chose was wrong. He should have let go way before he did, people were warning him and he still chose to hold on. That's where I think he was wrong.

I respectfully disagree. If you have to take time to defuse a situation, you are likely too late. I just looked up Killy of Jordan Neely - Wikipedia. There are witnesses that said DP did loosen his hold on Neely's neck, another said not to put Neely on his back, so DP put him on his side. I think we need to let the trial continue before declaring him guilty of murder. JMO

 

[Rolypolyoly]

I respectfully disagree. If you have to take time to defuse a situation, you are likely too late. I just looked up Killy of Jordan Neely - Wikipedia. There are witnesses that said DP did loosen his hold on Neely's neck, another said not to put Neely on his back, so DP put him on his side. I think we need to let the trial continue before declaring him guilty of murder. JMO

Who mentioned murder?!

 

[Ontario Mom]

Daniel Penny was not alone in attempting to stop the threat of Neeley. There were two other dudes who assisted in the takedown. Other passengers reacted in fear, some froze, and still others pulled out their phones and hit record.

This was not an average day on the train, that is for sure.

From all I've read in the media, and even the questions potential jurors were asked, I think sadly it was an average day on the train. Which makes it even more tragic that when a few men honorably & courageously stepped up to try and make it better, it all went the way it did.

jmo

 

[Ontario Mom]

Nobody said he shouldn't have stepped in, including me, but he approached him from behind for that choke, he could just as easily have kicked out his knee and pushed him to the floor and held him down...

RSBM

I don't think this is a fair statement. None of us have any idea how hard or how easy this was for DP.
We don't know if he struggled in his head "do I do something? do I just sit here?" or if he'd had any experience ever doing something like this before.
We do know he had merely seconds to consider all that & make a proper, well thought out 10 second decision on exactly when/how/what he was going to do.
We don't know what went through his head, if the struggle was more than he expected, less than, or what.
We don't know the amount of adrenaline that must have been rushing through him making time feel warped, as tends to happen in sudden, traumatic scenarios.

We all know how he's being portrayed in the media but there's still a lot we really don't know.

jmo

 

[Rolypolyoly]

RSBM

I don't think this is a fair statement. None of us have any idea how hard or how easy this was for DP.
We don't know if he struggled in his head "do I do something? do I just sit here?" or if he'd had any experience ever doing something like this before.
We do know he had merely seconds to consider all that & make a proper, well thought out 10 second decision on exactly when/how/what he was going to do.
We don't know what went through his head, if the struggle was more than he expected, less than, or what.
We don't know the amount of adrenaline that must have been rushing through him making time feel warped, as tends to happen in sudden, traumatic scenarios.

We all know how he's being portrayed in the media but there's still a lot we really don't know.

jmo

Fair enough. We also don't know that JN was am actual danger that day, we don't know that he would have attacked anyone, from reports he certainly hadn't made any move towards anybody and although he was shouting and making threats he hadnt actually done anything physically threatening. We have no way of knowing if DP could have done something different that day anymore than we have a way of knowing if JN was actually going to hurt someone or if he was behaving in a way just threatening enough to get him arrested and earn a dry bed and a meal for the night. Either thing is equally possible. JMO

 

[acutename]

Fair enough. We also don't know that JN was am actual danger that day, we don't know that he would have attacked anyone, from reports he certainly hadn't made any move towards anybody and although he was shouting and making threats he hadnt actually done anything physically threatening. We have no way of knowing if DP could have done something different that day anymore than we have a way of knowing if JN was actually going to hurt someone or if he was behaving in a way just threatening enough to get him arrested and earn a dry bed and a meal for the night. Either thing is equally possible. JMO

What JN was potentially guilty of:

In many ways, the menacing laws in New York are similar to general assault crimes in other states, in that they involve conduct intended to cause fear in others. New York's laws are also a little more expansive as they can also incorporate certain forms of stalking. Perhaps no place sees the most public acts of menacing as New York's subway system, although menacing crimes can also take place during bar fights or domestic disputes.

New York Menacing Laws: An Overview​

The chart below contains information on the definitions and penalties under New York menacing laws.

Statutes	New York Penal Law Section 120.13 (1st degree menacing) New York Penal Law Section 120.14 (2nd degree menacing) New York Penal Law Section 120.15 (3rd degree menacing)
Definitions	1st Degree Menacing: A person is guilty of 1st degree menacing when he or she: Commits 2nd degree menacing; and Has been previously convicted of 2nd degree menacing or menacing a police officer or a peace officer within the last 10 years. 2nd Degree Menacing: A person is guilty of 2nd degree menacing when he or she either: Intentionally places or attempts to place another person in reasonable fear of injury or death by displaying a deadly weapon or instrument; or Repeatedly following or engaging in repeated conduct to intentionally place or attempt to place another person in reasonable fear of injury or death; or Commits the crime of menacing in the 3rd degree in violation of a protective or other court order. 3rd Degree Menacing: A person is guilty of 3rd degree menacing when he or she intentionally places or attempts to place another person in fear of death or imminent physical injury.
Maximum Penalties	1st Degree Menacing: This is a class E felony punishable by up to 4 years in prison. 2nd Degree Menacing: This is a class A misdemeanor punishable by up to 1 year in prison. 3rd Degree Menacing: This is a class B misdemeanor punishable by up to 3 months in prison.

Note: State laws are always subject to change through the passage of new legislation, rulings in the higher courts (including federal decisions), ballot initiatives, and other means. While we strive to provide the most current information available, please consult an attorney or conduct your own legal research to verify the state law(s) you are researching.

https://www.findlaw.com/state/new-york-law/new-york-menacing-laws.html

_______________________________________________________________________________
and interestingly enough, the types of charges do make reference to prior offenses

 

[Snoopster]

If he is found guilty, then no one will step up again for fear of being imprisoned just because they choose to protect themselves and others. The many news stories of people being attacked in the subway or pushed off the platform, when other people ignore the situation is appalling. I firmly believe Daniel Perry saved people's lives, whether it was that day or in the future. JMO

I understand your concern.
I don't think anyone has any concern with him taking initial action, I think the concern is that he kept that dangerous choke hold going too long even though at least one spectator expressed concern that he might kill Neely. This is my stumbling block as well.

 

[Donswife48]

I understand your concern.
I don't think anyone has any concern with him taking initial action, I think the concern is that he kept that dangerous choke hold going too long even though at least one spectator expressed concern that he might kill Neely. This is my stumbling block as well.

And yet there are other witnesses that say the opposite. DP did loosen his hold on Neely's neck. It's apparent that some will believe one, and I will believe another. I would love to post proof, but I don't know if the source is an approved source per Websleuths rules.