Daniel Penny on Trial for manslaughter and negligent homicide of Jordan Neely

[IceIce9]

So what? Then as IceIce said, you do Chest Compressions. You don't do nothing because the victim was "dirty". Even bloody/dirty people deserve medical care no matter what cause them to become that way.

Professional rescuers are expected to meet a minimum standard of care, which may be established by their training program and/or protocol of the local authorities.

EMTs and medics have a duty to act, or respond to the level of their training. Failure to fulfill these duties could result in legal action.

Members of LE are most likely not trained to administer CPR to the extent of an EMT. But, they have a duty to act to the extent of their training, which is usually “Hands-only” CPR. It doesn’t matter if the victim is “dirty” the duty of LE would be to provide compressions properly.

It doesn’t matter if a victim is dirty, bloody, muddy, whatever. If you are a professional rescuer you must respond and provide proper medical care.

However, a bystander non- medical, non-LE is NOT required to provide aid, assistance, CPR or any type of medical care even if trained in CPR Or first aid.

This is why I would like to know if the rescuers in the videos providing aid are LE or medical.

 

[LinasK]

Professional rescuers are expected to meet a minimum standard of care, which may be established by their training program and/or protocol of the local authorities.

EMTs and medics have a duty to act, or respond to the level of their training. Failure to fulfill these duties could result in legal action.

Members of LE are most likely not trained to administer CPR to the extent of an EMT. But, they have a duty to act to the extent of their training, which is usually “Hands-only” CPR. It doesn’t matter if the victim is “dirty” the duty of LE would be to provide compressions properly.

It doesn’t matter if a victim is dirty, bloody, muddy, whatever. If you are a professional rescuer you must respond and provide proper medical care.

However, a bystander non- medical, non-LE is NOT required to provide aid, assistance, CPR or any type of medical care even if trained in CPR Or first aid.

This is why I would like to know if the rescuers in the videos providing aid are LE or medical.

Yeah, that's the Good Samaritan law I believe. But if you are going to get involved, do it properly, not half-way.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Professional rescuers are expected to meet a minimum standard of care, which may be established by their training program and/or protocol of the local authorities.

EMTs and medics have a duty to act, or respond to the level of their training. Failure to fulfill these duties could result in legal action.

Members of LE are most likely not trained to administer CPR to the extent of an EMT. But, they have a duty to act to the extent of their training, which is usually “Hands-only” CPR. It doesn’t matter if the victim is “dirty” the duty of LE would be to provide compressions properly.

It doesn’t matter if a victim is dirty, bloody, muddy, whatever. If you are a professional rescuer you must respond and provide proper medical care.

However, a bystander non- medical, non-LE is NOT required to provide aid, assistance, CPR or any type of medical care even if trained in CPR Or first aid.

This is why I would like to know if the rescuers in the videos providing aid are LE or medical.

The first responders were LE and they did CPR and used a defibrillator.
Shown in police body cams

 

[IceIce9]

The first responders were LE and they did CPR and used a defibrillator.
Shown in police body cams

But, they didn’t perform it properly. Standing, bending at the waist does not provide effective compressions. Not until later in the video does it show a female providing effective compressions.

Probably the first LE shown was not getting close enough because of the “dirty” victim that was mentioned upthread.

 

[IceIce9]

The first responders were LE and they did CPR and used a defibrillator.
Shown in police body cams

But critical time was wasted before it was performed correctly.

CPR Facts & Statistics | Red Cross

Read about facts and statistics about CPR, cardiac arrest and AEDs/Defibrillators from the American Red Cross.

www.redcross.org

Survival chances decrease by 10% for every minute that immediate CPR and use of an AED is delayed.

Immediate CPR can triple the chance of survival.

 

[Lilibet]

IMO It appears to me that those interacting closely with Neely, from Penny to LE, viewed him as “less than,” as an “other,” not worth caring about. Penny referred to him as a “crackhead” (with no evidence) in his police interview and can be seen in the video standing casually, with no concern for Neely, never even having rendered aid. Several LE keep their distance while doing CPR ineffectively. It probably wouldn't have helped anyway, since he was already brain dead, but at least try.

There are too many of these cases of “othering” people, viewing them as ‘less than” and not worth caring about whether they live or die. That is precisely what this case is about and what Penny has been charged with.

MR. JORDAN NEELY WAS A HUMAN BEING WHO HAD DONE NOTHING DESERVING OF DEATH. SAY HIS NAME!

As a reminder again, this is what Penny is charged with:

'Manslaughter in the second degree'
Penal (PEN) CHAPTER 40, PART 3, TITLE H, ARTICLE 125

§ 125.15 Manslaughter in the second degree.

A person is guilty of manslaughter in the second degree when:

1. He recklessly causes the death of another person; or

3. He intentionally causes or aids another person to commit suicide.

Manslaughter in the second degree is a class C felony.

SECTION 125.10
Criminally negligent homicide
Penal (PEN) CHAPTER 40, PART 3, TITLE H, ARTICLE 125

§ 125.10 Criminally negligent homicide.

A person is guilty of criminally negligent homicide when, with
criminal negligence, he causes the death of another person.

Criminally negligent homicide is a class E felony.
The New York State Senate
————————-
Recklessly— recklessly
in a way that is dangerous and shows that you are not thinking about the risks and possible results of your behavior:

Criminally negligent— What Is Criminal Negligence?
Criminal negligence (sometimes called culpable negligence) refers to a defendant who acts in disregard of a serious risk of harm that a reasonable person in the same situation would have perceived. Another common definition includes an act that amounts to a gross deviation from the general standard of care.

 

[IDK]

This article says that the cause of death initially listed on the death certificate by the medical examiner was “inconclusive”. Is this misreporting or true?

“Harris’ testimony came during cross-examination by Penny’s defense attorneys, who questioned her about initially saying on Neely’s death certificate that his cause of death was “inconclusive.”

Daniel Penny chokehold caused Jordan Neely death, even if homeless man had enough drugs in system to ‘put down an elephant’: ME testimony

The medical examiner who ruled Jordan Neely’s death was a homicide caused by Daniel Penny’s chokehold insisted Friday she’d stand by the ruling.

nypost.com

 

[Deleted member 296739]

This article says that the cause of death initially listed on the death certificate by the medical examiner was “inconclusive”. Is this misreporting or true?

“Harris’ testimony came during cross-examination by Penny’s defense attorneys, who questioned her about initially saying on Neely’s death certificate that his cause of death was “inconclusive.”

Daniel Penny chokehold caused Jordan Neely death, even if homeless man had enough drugs in system to ‘put down an elephant’: ME testimony

The medical examiner who ruled Jordan Neely’s death was a homicide caused by Daniel Penny’s chokehold insisted Friday she’d stand by the ruling.

nypost.com

I’d read that in previous articles as true… I’ll see if I can find it again

 

[Lilibet]

This article says that the cause of death initially listed on the death certificate by the medical examiner was “inconclusive”. Is this misreporting or true?

“Harris’ testimony came during cross-examination by Penny’s defense attorneys, who questioned her about initially saying on Neely’s death certificate that his cause of death was “inconclusive.”

Daniel Penny chokehold caused Jordan Neely death, even if homeless man had enough drugs in system to ‘put down an elephant’: ME testimony

The medical examiner who ruled Jordan Neely’s death was a homicide caused by Daniel Penny’s chokehold insisted Friday she’d stand by the ruling.

nypost.com

That was the initial opinion prior to other tests and the video, so I would say the reporting is accurate. Here’s another link.

Autopsy doctor testifies how chokehold killed Jordan Neely

Dr. Cynthia Harris took questions from prosecutors.

ny1.com

The day after Neely died — the cause of death was “pending further investigation.”

Dr. Harris testified that she wanted to wait for a full toxicology report. Then, a day later, the cause of death changed to compression of the neck. Dr. Harris saw the cell phone video.

“No toxicological report could have changed my opinion,” Dr. Harris said.

She also did not wait for genetic testing on Neely’s heart and other tests.

Dr. Harris presented her case as part of a routine conference with senior medical examiners, including the city’s chief, Dr. Jason Graham.

“Dr. Graham agreed with my assessment,” Dr. Harris said.

 

[Deleted member 296739]

That was the initial opinion prior to other tests and the video, so I would say the reporting is accurate. Here’s another link.

Autopsy doctor testifies how chokehold killed Jordan Neely

Dr. Cynthia Harris took questions from prosecutors.

ny1.com

The day after Neely died — the cause of death was “pending further investigation.”

Dr. Harris testified that she wanted to wait for a full toxicology report. Then, a day later, the cause of death changed to compression of the neck. Dr. Harris saw the cell phone video.

“No toxicological report could have changed my opinion,” Dr. Harris said.

She also did not wait for genetic testing on Neely’s heart and other tests.

Dr. Harris presented her case as part of a routine conference with senior medical examiners, including the city’s chief, Dr. Jason Graham.

“Dr. Graham agreed with my assessment,” Dr. Harris said.

Thanks for finding the article

 

[IceIce9]

That was the initial opinion prior to other tests and the video, so I would say the reporting is accurate. Here’s another link.

Autopsy doctor testifies how chokehold killed Jordan Neely

Dr. Cynthia Harris took questions from prosecutors.

ny1.com

The day after Neely died — the cause of death was “pending further investigation.”

Dr. Harris testified that she wanted to wait for a full toxicology report. Then, a day later, the cause of death changed to compression of the neck. Dr. Harris saw the cell phone video.

“No toxicological report could have changed my opinion,” Dr. Harris said.

She also did not wait for genetic testing on Neely’s heart and other tests.

Dr. Harris presented her case as part of a routine conference with senior medical examiners, including the city’s chief, Dr. Jason Graham.

“Dr. Graham agreed with my assessment,” Dr. Harris said.

JMO but isn’t it rather unusual to issue cause of death without waiting for tox report and medical/genetic testing?

Just for example, in another recent case I followed closely the cause of death was pending until test results came in, which showed that the victim had an enlarged heart and cardiovascular disease.

JMO

 

[Jade]

Daniel Penny wasn’t a Marine preforming as trained to carefully restrain, Daniel Penny, a civilian, attacked JN without regard for his Marine training protocols instead using his own “variation” lethally.

(…)

Kenner said, Penny had restrained Neely with a “variation of a non lethal chokehold” borrowed from martial arts training…

(…)

Daniel Penny's chokehold was sole cause of Jordan Neely's death, medical examiner testifies

“It’s my medical opinion that there are no alternative reasonable explanations for Mr. Neely’s death,” the medical examiner, Dr. Cynthia Harris, told jurors Friday.

www.nbcnews.com

Penny’s own attorney says Penny varied the chokehold that should have been “non lethal” and killed JN.

Shows intent corroborated by that chilling murder video of Daniel Penny intent on squeezing the life out of JN.

Too bad DP didn’t perform like a well trained Marine maybe he would have been a hero by protecting and helping instead of becoming forever more the Subway Strangler.

All imo

 

[Jade]

JMO but isn’t it rather unusual to issue cause of death without waiting for tox report and medical/genetic testing?

Just for example, in another recent case I followed closely the cause of death was pending until test results came in, which showed that the victim had an enlarged heart and cardiovascular disease.

JMO

No. Here is a link with the why posted last page

Drip,drip,drip.

"Penny’s lawyers spent most of Monday trying to poke holes in Harris’ finding, which she said she made after reviewing viral video of the fatal May 1, 2023 encounter shot by a journalist who had witnessed the confrontation on the Manhattan F train.

Near the end of her time on the stand, Penny lawyer Steven Raiser raised his voice while questioning why Harris decided Neely’s cause of death before receiving a toxicology report, which found that he had the K2 synthetic cannabis in his system.

“Yeah, but I’ve also made a determination when someone’s been shot in the head that their cause of death was that they were shot in the head,” Harris quipped back.

“I wouldn’t wait for the toxicology results to determine that.”

Daniel Penny’s sister, childhood friend describe embattled Marine as ‘kind’ and ‘peaceful’ at subway chokehold trial

Daniel Penny’s sister and childhood friend pleaded his case to jurors at his manslaughter trial — describing the former Marine as a “calm and peaceful” surfing buff who earned a r…

nypost.com

 

[jepop]

No. Here is a link with the why posted last page

Thank you for this post!. K2 is merely a defense strategy, designed in an effort to confuse a jury. And distract. Imo. Prosecution has presented sufficient evidence for a jury to convict BARD. I hope they are paying attention and understand the seriousness of the law. Jmo

 

[Izzylizzy]

JMO but isn’t it rather unusual to issue cause of death without waiting for tox report and medical/genetic testing?

Just for example, in another recent case I followed closely the cause of death was pending until test results came in, which showed that the victim had an enlarged heart and cardiovascular disease.

JMO

Even if JN had an enlarged heart and cardiovascular disease it was being deprived of oxygen for 6 mins that killed him.
Had he not been strangled the odds of him dying from heart issues that day at that time in the subway car are way more than a 100 billion to one.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Daniel Penny wasn’t a Marine preforming as trained to carefully restrain, Daniel Penny, a civilian, attacked JN without regard for his Marine training protocols instead using his own “variation” lethally.

(…)

Kenner said, Penny had restrained Neely with a “variation of a non lethal chokehold” borrowed from martial arts training…

(…)

Daniel Penny's chokehold was sole cause of Jordan Neely's death, medical examiner testifies

“It’s my medical opinion that there are no alternative reasonable explanations for Mr. Neely’s death,” the medical examiner, Dr. Cynthia Harris, told jurors Friday.

www.nbcnews.com

Penny’s own attorney says Penny varied the chokehold that should have been “non lethal” and killed JN.

Shows intent corroborated by that chilling murder video of Daniel Penny intent on squeezing the life out of JN.

Too bad DP didn’t perform like a well trained Marine maybe he would have been a hero by protecting and helping instead of becoming forever more the Subway Strangler.

All imo

BBM:
IMO:
Same as "I thought the gun wasn't loaded" after pointing it at someone, pulling the trigger and killing them.

 

[Ontario Mom]

JMO but isn’t it rather unusual to issue cause of death without waiting for tox report and medical/genetic testing?

Just for example, in another recent case I followed closely the cause of death was pending until test results came in, which showed that the victim had an enlarged heart and cardiovascular disease.

JMO

I can't recall ever following a case where COD was announced before tox. So in my subjective experience yes, it's very unusual. From all I've read, once she saw the video she made up her mind.

jmo

 

[Deleted member 296739]

I can't recall ever following a case where COD was announced before tox. So in my subjective experience yes, it's very unusual. From all I've read, once she saw the video she made up her mind.

jmo

Same for me- moo

 

[Izzylizzy]

But critical time was wasted before it was performed correctly.

CPR Facts & Statistics | Red Cross

Read about facts and statistics about CPR, cardiac arrest and AEDs/Defibrillators from the American Red Cross.

www.redcross.org

Survival chances decrease by 10% for every minute that immediate CPR and use of an AED is delayed.

Immediate CPR can triple the chance of survival.

IMO:
Since JN was brain dead when LE arrived just what was CPR and a defibrillator capable of doing if given immediately and the proper way?


I'm not being insensitive to JN or his family when I say for his sake it was blessing he wasn't able to be brought back.

 

[IceIce9]

IMO:
Since JN was brain dead when LE arrived just what was CPR and a defibrillator capable of doing if given immediately and the proper way?


I'm not being insensitive to JN or his family when I say for his sake it was blessing he wasn't brought back.

JMO and just my experience we don’t know 100% that he was brain dead since she made her decision from viewing a video.

Again JMO and experience.