Daniel Penny on Trial for manslaughter and negligent homicide of Jordan Neely

[Jade]

So? Okay.

It means that Jordan Neely had the ability to harm others on the subway if he was allowed to carry out his threats. JMO.

What means JN had the ability to harm others?

Like he too was going to go all Marine on everyone with a chokehold/marital arts mix of his own?

Daniel Penny used stealth as his first weapon to sneak up from behind and slam JN to the ground.

JN was yelling he didn't have DPs' advantage of sneaking up on a victim he was trying to be heard not sneak around.



imo

 

[Ontario Mom]

What means JN had the ability to harm others?

Like he too was going to go all Marine on everyone with a chokehold/marital arts mix of his own?

Just curious if you're aware of JN's well documented, violent criminal history?

 

[Rolypolyoly]

It’s simply not true that the immediate threat was resolved.

Because the threatening menace was still in close body contact with the one person who had stepped up to avert danger from the whole subway car. Mom & toddler & everybody else.

Even LE shows up in pairs or more, keeping their arms trained on a potentially dangerous person until one of them has safely cuffed and searched them.

How do we expect a heroic civilian simply let go and expect that the threatening maniac will now just be docile and wait calmly for LE to show up & cart him away?

Saying now that the chokehold went on too long just means that LE took too long to take the dangerous individual off the rescuers hands.

Especially after pretty much everyone had fled.

I can’t help but be scared by people disecting a heroic act to the point of making the hero now be the bad guy.

DP did not step onto that subway with the intend of choking a random person to death.

JN on the other hand did step onto that subway with the intend to cause harm.

There really should never have been brought suit against DP.
He was not a trained LEO to whom “excessive force” scrutiny should apply. Man against man he simply held onto the public threat until LE could relieve him.

All MOO, of course.

Daniel Penny had the assistance of 2 other men restraining Neely, so far less chance of him suddenly leaping up and attacking anyone.

We have no idea whether JN stepped onto the subway with an intent to harm somebody, of course it's a possibility and I don't deny that, however, he could just as easily have been ranting and looking for some attention, he may very well have jumped right off again at the next stop. We just don't know. What we do know is that he made no advances on anyone, he didn't direct his ranting threats to anyone specific and he didn't attempt to physically attack anyone.

JMO

 

[Deleted member 39678]

What means JN had the ability to harm others?

Like he too was going to go all Marine on everyone with a chokehold/marital arts mix of his own?

Daniel Penny used stealth as his first weapon to sneak up from behind and slam JN to the ground.

JN was yelling he didn't have DPs' advantage of sneaking up on a victim he was trying to be heard not sneak around.



imo

The woman and children on the subway were definitely in danger from Neely. He had a record of assaulting women in the past and could have done it again if not stopped. JMO.

He had 42 previous arrests on charges such as evading fares, theft and assaults on three women, according to US media.
He had pleaded guilty to assaulting a 67-year-old woman leaving a subway station in 2021.

Jordan Neely: What happened in NYC subway chokehold case?

Video shows Daniel Penny with his arms around Jordan Neely's neck for about two minutes and 55 seconds.

www.bbc.com

 

[Inthedetails]

For anyone who hasn't ridden an NYC subway, here's a video of the F train entering the Broadway-Lafayette station. This is the train and the station involved in this case.

There are four sets of doors on each subway car. They open when the train stops at the station, giving passengers egress from the car.

The ride from the previous station (W4th) is about 3 minutes away, unless there was a delay.

All passengers on the train would realize they could exit the train as soon as it pulled into the station.

In my opinion as a NYC subway rider myself, the threat to passengers ended when the train doors opened. JN was subdued on the floor and the doors allowed escape for the passengers. I understand the desire to continue holding JN until LE arrived, but there was no need to continue a chokehold. imo

 

[Ontario Mom]

Final evidence for defense - Neely's bench warrant from Feb. 23, 2023 - still active on day he died. Jury did not hear why warrant issued, besides routine failure to appear in court. But it was for skipping out on treatment program after punching a woman.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1860061023098884600

 

[Izzylizzy]

So? He still killed JN who didn't have a weapon or threaten to use a weapon or even touch anyone before DP grabbed him from behind.

all imo

IMO:
DP's Marine's Green Belt was his weapon.


"Rear naked choke hold during Marine Corps Martial Arts Program training session"

scroll down for image of Marine's training

Rear naked choke - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Inthedetails]

Final evidence for defense - Neely's bench warrant from Feb. 23, 2023 - still active on day he died. Jury did not hear why warrant issued, besides routine failure to appear in court. But it was for skipping out on treatment program after punching a woman.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1860061023098884600

It's not a question of whether JN was scary and potential threat on the train. I personally think he was scary and a potential threat.

The question is the six-minute chokehold that killed him, especially since the defendant got JN on the ground and pinned him - why continue to choke him until he died when he was subdued and contained and the passengers had gotten away?

jmopinion

 

[acutename]

The woman and children on the subway were definitely in danger from Neely. He had a record of assaulting women in the past and could have done it again if not stopped. JMO.

Jordan Neely: What happened in NYC subway chokehold case?

Video shows Daniel Penny with his arms around Jordan Neely's neck for about two minutes and 55 seconds.

www.bbc.com

he could have hurt some one in the station too if he was free- so some how he needed to be restrained but not injured... ​

​

Jordan Neely had long history of mental health issues ...​

New York Post
https://nypost.com › 2023/05/04 › jordan-neely-had-his...





May 4, 2023 — Neely also had numerous arrests on his rap sheet, the most recent in 2021, when he socked an older woman in the head, severely injuring her and ...

 

[LinasK]

Would you still feel DP was a vigilante if JN hadn’t died?

Yes I would. Penny had no business taking the law into his own hands. Why didn't he or anyone else seek out Law Enforcement???

 

[LinasK]

That's true. But, at the same time, Penny wouldn't have placed him in that chokehold had Neely not been aggressive and frightening others.

It would have been a different story if Neely had been minding his own business and sitting quietly when Penny put him in the chokehold.

As I understand the situation, Neely's actions created a frightening situation, and Penny stepped in to subdue Neely.

That subduing led to oxygen reduction and, in conjunction with Neely's medical condition and the drugs in his system, triggered a sickling attack from which Neely died.

The real question is whether an otherwise healthy person would have survived the restraint, and from what Chundru said -- probably so.

Which is the actions of a vigilante, NOT a "Good Samaritan".

 

[SugarQueen]

Yes I would. Penny had no business taking the law into his own hands. Why didn't he or anyone else seek out Law Enforcement???

Thank you for your response. I don’t think waiting for law enforcement is always possible, or prudent. I honestly don’t remember how long it took LE to respond? Anyone know off hand?

 

[Inthedetails]

The woman and children on the subway were definitely in danger from Neely. He had a record of assaulting women in the past and could have done it again if not stopped. JMO.

Jordan Neely: What happened in NYC subway chokehold case?

Video shows Daniel Penny with his arms around Jordan Neely's neck for about two minutes and 55 seconds.

www.bbc.com

It's not a matter of stopping the potential threat. DP is not on trial for stopping a threat.

He's on trial for killing a man he held in a chokehold for longer than it takes for a chokehold to kill.

He's not on trial for helping fellow passengers to safety, he's not on trial for stopping a threat, he's not on trial for retraining a potentially dangerous person.

He's on trial for killing a man with excessive use of a chokehold that he was trained how to use.

jmo

 

[LinasK]

I fear that a sad result of this high profile case will be that few people, even fewer than we see now, will be willing to step up and protect people from an attacker or an aggressive person.

Will a potential rescuer stop and think what would happen if they restrain an attacker, not knowing if the individual might have a medical condition or be under the influence of drugs? What if the aggressive individual suffers cardiac arrest while being restrained?

Someone under the influence of K2 would be especially problematic because 1. K2 can cause very erratic and aggressive behavior and 2. K2 can cause cardiac arrest.

Cardiac arrest associated with synthetic cannabinoid use and acquired prolonged QTc interval: A case report and review of literature - PMC

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Synthetic cannabinoids may have cardiovascular side effects including cardiac arrhythmias and even cardiac arrest.

JMO

In other words, less vigilanteism, which I see as a good thing.

 

[LinasK]

Thank you for your response. I don’t think waiting for law enforcement is always possible, or prudent. I honestly don’t remember how long it took LE to respond? Anyone know off hand?

Well in the SF Bay Area, we have BART police, their own police force, and they DO ride the trains.

 

[LinasK]

We're basically at the end of the trial after today's cross of the defense expert, so I don't expect any further information to come out about what happened. Both sides will give their closing then it's in the hands of the jury.
(ETA - least I think this is pretty much where we're at)

My only concern there, is if the jurors will be comfortable enough to present their verdict - whatever it happens to be. Since it's been reported there have been threats against the jurors from "both sides" New details emerge about jurors in Daniel Penny's deadly chokehold trial I certainly don't envy the jurors the issues they're dealing with.

Although interestingly enough, the only people I've seen or heard from issuing anything, are the folks chanting outside the court house calling DP a murderer, a vigilante, a racist, etc. Protesters jeer at Daniel Penny on first day of jury selection in fatal NYC subway chokehold case: ‘Murderer!’

Why wouldn't they be? The judge can protect them just as Trump's jury was protected.

 

[LinasK]

Someone here opined that it was merely someone else's opinion that DP wasn't trying to kill JN.

This is not factually correct (and the facts matter). The source of that information is DP himself in his own words, to the LE interviewing him.

Daniel Penny interrogation video reveals him telling detectives ‘I’m not trying to kill the guy’ hours after Jordan Neely’s chokehold death

It was the first time jurors heard the voice of the man whose fate they’re weighing.

nypost.com

And I believe that he was lying when he said this.

 

[LinasK]

In the United States that is the role of LE, the Court and Jury.

all imo

Exactly! It wasn't Penny's role to be judge, jury, and executioner.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

It's not a matter of stopping the potential threat. DP is not on trial for stopping a threat.

He's on trial for killing a man he held in a chokehold for longer than it takes for a chokehold to kill.

He's not on trial for helping fellow passengers to safety, he's not on trial for stopping a threat, he's not on trial for retraining a potentially dangerous person.

He's on trial for killing a man with excessive use of a chokehold that he was trained how to use.

jmo

I'm not sure Penny killed Neely. I see lots of reasonable doubt. JMO.

 

[LinasK]

If that were true, he'd have been charged with murder. That did not happen.
There is zero evidence DP intended to kill JN.

I feel he should have been charged with murder. I think Penny targeted Neely for reasons I'm not allowed to state.