Father says DNA could solve one of country’s biggest murder mysteries: Who killed JonBenét Ramsey

[Ponytale]

I'm wondering when was the last time anyone (houskeeper) saw JB wearing the nightgown? Because if it had been washed and dried, it possibly could have washed out the blood, or at least made them less noticeable. That could help set the timeline when the bleeding could have occurred. Assuming that it was not washed.

 

[CloudedTruth]

But, iirc JBR was not dressed in nightgown, why couldn't it have been pulled out of the dryer that night a long with the blanket? What could have been the point of the nightgown even being there, if not by accident when she was wrapped up in the blanket?

I don't think anyone has proven where JBR was actually killed. Personally, I have come to the conclusion it was not an accident. But, some kind of rage.

She was not dressed in the nightgown when she was found, no. But it it has been said that someone changed her clothes after wiping her down. I didn't say it was impossible that the blanket and nightgown were pulled from the dryer, but the fact that they had her blood on them makes it unlikely that they were. They were favorite items of JonBenet. If they were sitting in the dryer for a few days, I would think she would ask for them. She always slept with that blanket and she loved the nightgown too.

If she was wearing the nightgown that night when she was attacked, that explains the blood being there. When she was taken to the basement the blanket went too, there was also blood on the blanket. They may have left the nightie there after changing her clothes for some unknown reason or they may have forgotten about it. John said at some point he thought whoever did it wanted to make her comfortable by wrapping the blanket around her.

 

[CloudedTruth]

Yes, I have read about that. I have seen the photos of the night gown but the blood stains do not appear visible to the eye(?). Do you know if they saw those blood spots with the UV light or were they visible just by looking? Assuming that the blanket and the nightgown were actually washed before, it would explain why we can not see the actual blood spots.

Edited: Ok, I understand that in the photo of her nightgown taken into the evidence the blood spots are cut out, that's why we can not see them. I suppose a photograph with them on is not published. At least I do not remember seeing one with actual blood spots.

I think it could be hard to tell with the nightgown, as it was pink and was patterned. I have seen a picture and you could see the spots with the naked eye. I'll try to find it.

 

[GRT]

I am reviewing the housekeeper's opinions again.

PR and JR were not close. Different bedrooms?
PR use to leave notes for housekeeper, on the stairs.
Housekeeper was familiar with handwriting and said it was PR's
Blanket that JBR was wrapped in had been left in dryer, probably with nightgown stuck to it couple days before.
JR had recently yelled at PR over her housekeeping and cooking skills, making PR cry.

My opinion....letter writer did not like JR, maybe even hated him, killer tortured JBR before they killed her (per autopsy), anger? Revenge?

Respectfully, that seems a little far fetched to me.

They were at the Whites for around 4ish hours. If he had spiked their drinks people would've noticed them acting off, they would've noticed. It isn't something you can time release to start when you want to, most people start feeling the effects in about 15 minutes. And yet hours later they left the White's house and made two stops on the way home and then proceeded with getting the kids to bed, Patsy doing some more packing, etc. They have never made mention of feeling funny or extremely tired. Even they, who ended up pointing fingers of suspicion at the White's have never suggested maybe he spiked their drinks.

Do all injested drugs act within minutes. Something as simple as as melatonin , which wasn’t around back then, can help induce deep sleep once someone falls asleep. That might explain why they slept through the scream the neighbor heard.

I don’t know if FW drugged them, but he did have keys to their home and he did change JBRs intimate clothing. He would know his way around their house and he would know their routines. No sign of a break in.

 

[CloudedTruth]

Do all injested drugs act within minutes. Something as simple as as melatonin , which wasn’t around back then, can help induce deep sleep once someone falls asleep. That might explain why they slept through the scream the neighbor heard.

I don’t know if FW drugged them, but he did have keys to their home and he did change JBRs intimate clothing. He would know his way around their house and he would know their routines. No sign of a break in.

The White's cooperated with police from moment one. Fleet White has been very vocal and proactive about trying to get this case solved, having GJ documents released, etc. He's done more to try to get justice for JonBenet than the Ramseys have ever done.

He had a house full of guests for Christmas. He and his wife were cleared by police. I agree there is no sign of a break-in, there was no intruder. RDI.

John claimed to have taken Melatonin that night before bed.

 

[AddieBoo]

PR did sleep in what was called Melinda's bedroom (which later became JonBenet's) when she was undergoing treatment. She was very immunocompromised so it made sense for her to be as isolated as possible.

We do not know for a fact that the blanket (and nightgown) were left in the dryer. The housekeeper guessed that may have been the case based upon seeing pictures of JonBenet's bed. She noticed that the sheets were different from the ones she had last made the bed with which was on 12/23. So she surmised that JonBenet had wet the bed again (by that time it was a nightly occurrence) and that Patsy had changed them. JonBenet always slept with that blanket, so it always got washed when the sheets had to be washed. Given that it was her favorite that she always slept with, it seems likely that Patsy would've washed and dried it for JB so she could have it. Also, there was JonBenet's blood found on the blanket and the nightgown. The nightgown actually contained the majority of the blood that was found at the scene. This points to those items not having been pulled out of the dryer as one of the last things done that night / morning.

There is an interesting You Tube by CottonStar all about that pink Barbie nightgown and its relationship to all the other elements found at the scene. Highly recommend.

DNA found on that nightgown was identified to Patsy and Burke. Interesting but as CottonStar points out hardly groundbreaking given they all lived together.
Also, began watching another You Tube that was addressing the reoccurrence of JBR bedwetting about 1 month prior to her death. The housekeeper had stated that JBR bedwetting had begun again after she had stopped for awhile, about a month before her murder.. So November? The Thanksgiving NYC trip etc… his take and sleuthing were very interesting. Lost the link and will find for sharing ..really good.

The blood on that nightgown is most compelling. It was a splatter pattern?
Maybe it’s a good thing it wasn’t washed. Which doesn’t seem to fit the crime because both items, blanket and nightgown could have been washed to destroy evidence,
Maybe those items were freshly laundered right before the crime occurred? If JBR bedwetting necessitated daily washing?

Anyone know if DNA from blood stains can be collected from items that have been washed?
Ran into this question about why there was lack of identifying DNA on garrote.

 

[AddieBoo]

The White's cooperated with police from moment one. Fleet White has been very vocal and proactive about trying to get this case solved, having GJ documents released, etc. He's done more to try to get justice for JonBenet than the Ramseys have ever done.

He had a house full of guests for Christmas. He and his wife were cleared by police. I agree there is no sign of a break-in, there was no intruder. RDI.

John claimed to have taken Melatonin that night before bed.

Patsy was taking medications? Some have alluded to some sort of prescription dependency?
Drinking and partying it up while taking any medications has the capacity for causing real danger,
Alcohol alone can be really troublesome for some individuals.
That could have been a component to this crime.

But I agree with CT on FW and his wife. Cannot fathom him doing anything remotely sketchy, ever.
IMO2

 

[Slebby]

I am new and trying to better understand why some people insist it was not an intruder - based on what I read.. (legal documents) was that the ransom note was not written by any of the three people who were living there: PR/JR and obviously not the son. If no one who lives in the house wrote the ransom note, then wouldn't it have to be an intruder?

You can find a really good summary of reasons so many lean away from IDI theories if you look up « A Rebuttal of Ramsey Misinformation » on Bitchute, including the RN.

A rebuttal to Ramsey misinformation regarding the JonBenet investigation

This is a rebuttal to the misinformation commonly disseminated by John Ramsey and his supporters. Suggested reading: JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation by Steve Thomas Foreign Faction: Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet? by A. James Kolar Listen Carefully: Truth and Evidence in the...

www.bitchute.com

 

[CloudedTruth]

There is an interesting You Tube by CottonStar all about that pink Barbie nightgown and its relationship to all the other elements found at the scene. Highly recommend.

DNA found on that nightgown was identified to Patsy and Burke. Interesting but as CottonStar points out hardly groundbreaking given they all lived together.
Also, began watching another You Tube that was addressing the reoccurrence of JBR bedwetting about 1 month prior to her death. The housekeeper had stated that JBR bedwetting had begun again after she had stopped for awhile, about a month before her murder.. So November? The Thanksgiving NYC trip etc… his take and sleuthing were very interesting. Lost the link and will find for sharing ..really good.

The blood on that nightgown is most compelling. It was a splatter pattern?
Maybe it’s a good thing it wasn’t washed. Which doesn’t seem to fit the crime because both items, blanket and nightgown could have been washed to destroy evidence,
Maybe those items were freshly laundered right before the crime occurred? If JBR bedwetting necessitated daily washing?

Anyone know if DNA from blood stains can be collected from items that have been washed?
Ran into this question about why there was lack of identifying DNA on garrote.

Cottonstar knows his stuff! I enjoy his YouTube content. He does a lot of research.

From what I have understood, the bedwetting never stopped but yes, it apparently had escalated about a month prior to the murder. Which is an interesting correlation with what her teachers had noticed about her that started at about the same time....a month before. They said she had become very clingy to her mother and seemed less sure of herself than she usually was. And then there was the report of her getting upset during the party on 12/23, where she was sitting on the stairs crying and said that she didn't feel pretty. It seems as if something was going on that last month that triggered all of this.

The way I heard the blood on the nightgown described was as droplets. So could have been from her nose or her mouth. Apparently you can still collect DNA from items that had blood stains that have been washed. But it depends upon the fabric, how it was washed / treated. The DNA would be degraded. Blood stains are notoriously hard to get out of clothing.

 

[CloudedTruth]

Patsy was taking medications? Some have alluded to some sort of prescription dependency?
Drinking and partying it up while taking any medications has the capacity for causing real danger,
Alcohol alone can be really troublesome for some individuals.
That could have been a component to this crime.

But I agree with CT on FW and his wife. Cannot fathom him doing anything remotely sketchy, ever.
IMO2

We don't really know if Patsy was taking medications, I too have heard people say she was the type to have a dependency, and have also heard her referred to as a "wine mom". Of course that's just someone's opinion of how they perceived her personality. No one she knew has indicated that she might have a problem.

She was prescribed anti-anxiety medication for panic attacks that started when she was undergoing chemo, which is a known side effect. We do not know if she was still taking them, John has indicated that she wasn't, only natural supplements I believe. Of course John isn't exactly credible. He did say that she wasn't really a drinker, just the occasional glass of wine. We do know that she had wine with dinner and she also said something about being served cocktails. For someone who does not drink much, it wouldn't take a lot to feel the effects of alcohol.

December had been a very busy month, especially for Patsy. They were up early on Christmas day, she made a big special breakfast and cleaned up after, then got herself and the kids ready for the party. Alcohol certainly could have been a component.

 

[AddieBoo]

We don't really know if Patsy was taking medications, I too have heard people say she was the type to have a dependency, and have also heard her referred to as a "wine mom". Of course that's just someone's opinion of how they perceived her personality. No one she knew has indicated that she might have a problem.

She was prescribed anti-anxiety medication for panic attacks that started when she was undergoing chemo, which is a known side effect. We do not know if she was still taking them, John has indicated that she wasn't, only natural supplements I believe. Of course John isn't exactly credible. He did say that she wasn't really a drinker, just the occasional glass of wine. We do know that she had wine with dinner and she also said something about being served cocktails. For someone who does not drink much, it wouldn't take a lot to feel the effects of alcohol.

December had been a very busy month, especially for Patsy. They were up early on Christmas day, she made a big special breakfast and cleaned up after, then got herself and the kids ready for the party. Alcohol certainly could have been a component.

Was there some sort of confrontation/showdown before FW party between JBR and PR about what Patsy wanted her wear? JB’s red turtleneck that Patsy wanted her to wear to match her own outfit? That turtleneck was found in a sink (either JBR bathroom or laundry area sink) JBR wore the white shirt with the star pattern. Not what her mom wanted. But for it to be squashed up in a sink? Later at the party JBR was crying,,,

 

[ShadyLady]

Cottonstar knows his stuff! I enjoy his YouTube content. He does a lot of research.

From what I have understood, the bedwetting never stopped but yes, it apparently had escalated about a month prior to the murder. Which is an interesting correlation with what her teachers had noticed about her that started at about the same time....a month before. They said she had become very clingy to her mother and seemed less sure of herself than she usually was. And then there was the report of her getting upset during the party on 12/23, where she was sitting on the stairs crying and said that she didn't feel pretty. It seems as if something was going on that last month that triggered all of this.

The way I heard the blood on the nightgown described was as droplets. So could have been from her nose or her mouth. Apparently you can still collect DNA from items that had blood stains that have been washed. But it depends upon the fabric, how it was washed / treated. The DNA would be degraded. Blood stains are notoriously hard to get out of clothing.

And the odd 911 call days before her death....too many odd things.

 

[CloudedTruth]

Was there some sort of confrontation/showdown before FW party between JBR and PR about what Patsy wanted her wear? JB’s red turtleneck that Patsy wanted her to wear to match her own outfit? That turtleneck was found in a sink (either JBR bathroom or laundry area sink) JBR wore the white shirt with the star pattern. Not what her mom wanted. But for it to be squashed up in a sink? Later at the party JBR was crying,,,

Yes, there was. Patsy wanted JB’s outfit to match hers. JB did not want to be twinsies with Patsy. Patsy finally gave in. The red turtleneck was found balled up in the sink in JB’s bathroom. Patsy also said that’s what she put on JB for bed that night. Kinda feels like it was on her mind. I think she was more upset by JB not wanting to match her outfit than she said she was. Patsy was also disappointed earlier in the day because JB was not impressed with the Twinn doll Patsy had made for her.

The party JB was crying at was the one hosted by the Ramseys on the 23rd.

 

[AppleTreeGreen]

on 12/23, where she was sitting on the stairs crying and said that she didn't feel pretty.

Aww, poor JonBenet. I hope someone told her that it doesn’t matter if she is pretty or not, though she was, she was still worthy of love, life and enjoying and embracing both. Along those lines what people think of her looks mattered far less than the warm, comforting and invigorating feeling one gets when just standing outside and absorbing the sunlight.

Plus, as @Ponytale and others emphasized, her parents or at least PR loved her and not because she was talented achiever who won pageants and played musical instruments but just because she just was. In a podcast I listened to, it seemed heavily implied that the only reason PR got JBR involved in pageantry is because she herself competed and loved the culture and wanted to use it to bond with her daughter. It was out of love. From her interviews PR probably would never want her daughter to struggle with such insecurity and pressures, especially so young and left the pageant scene altogether for JonBenet Ramsey. In my mind, if they had a chance and the murder never happened, a lot of parents or former beauty queens would probably want to reassure her that she was her parents’ life, their love, their flesh and blood and would always be their daughter, and they loved her before she grew into a pretty little girl, they would love her after she grew into a beauty like mother and sisters and they would love her long after. And anway, she is just a kid. She should be enjoying just playing with the other ones, getting caught up in some adventure and sending follow-up letters to Santa, not worrying over the features reflected to her in a mirror.

Also, I never watched any of JBR’s pageantry videos, or any pageantry ones, including adults, since watching Miss Universe over 20 years ago but I would imagine or tell her if I could that she didn’t just win non-stop because she was pretty but because she had talent and charisma. Nonetheless, if she wants to quit and bond with her mom another way, as indicated by one of Paugh, that is okay too.

JonBenét Ramsey's mother: What we know about murdered child's mother, Patsy

NETFLIX’s Who Killed JonBenét Ramsey? re-examines one of the biggest cold cases in history. The new three-part doc tells the story of a six-year-old beauty pageant contestant, and how her parents f…

www.the-sun.com

However, contrary to my perception from Arndt’s notes and articles, Linda Wilcox argues in Shiller’s book that the attention and affection that PR lavished on JBR was the result of both JBR being a strong competitor in the pageants and her talent in her music and dance lessons. It seems implied from Wilcox’s interview that JBR was a viewed as means to end by her mother because her gifts or talents could be used PR could build a reputation and an ego on. Prior to JBR’s achievements in these different activities, Wilcox said she was left pretty much solely under the care of a nanny, was limited to wearing cast-offs from Burke that didn’t fit properly and wasn’t awarded an ounce of her of mother’s affection as all of it went to Burke none to spare for PR’s second born. In that case, considering JBR was too sick to participate in the pageant that took place right before Christmas, according to medical records of her doctor’s appointments and reasons for them, could her insecurity and withdrawal from the rest of the party on the 23rd stem from feelings of shame and being ostracized or excluded from her mother’s love as punishment if indeed PR was more in lined with Wilcox’s opinions?

Not necessarily stating that it does or that PR was not a loving mother who would cause such harm to her son or daughter. Or that PR is the cause for the change in JBR’s behavior. I was just thinking and applying a plausible scenario that came from what Wilcox has said earlier. I also think, IMO, that if PR as posited in Shiller’s book could be so cruel or cold towards her children, it would, for me , raise the plausibility of PDI.

Of course, I should mention again this is just one perspective from one individual who knew the Ramseys and the children very well and it does differ from what Dectective Arndt, friends of the family and relatives perceptions of PR and her parenting and relationship with her daughter so take from it what you will or readers are free to decide, who, if anyone, perceptions they are more likely accept or give credibility to.

s-linda-wilcox.htm

Flight755 15th Streets

www.acandyrose.com

 

[CrimeTheorist]

Did the White's ever say how PR or JR were behaving during their Christmas dinner? I would think there would be some odd behaviour if one of them was about to kill their daughter and cover it up the way they are accused of doing.

 

[UncoolNegated]

For the people who are saying that it was a wise decision to immediately hire attorneys, that isn't the point that was being addressed. The question was did JR act like a normal, grieving parent that day.
And I say, no, he did not.

Honestly, there is a whole range of emotions that might go through someone. This kind of thinking is exactly what has led to numerous false accusations.

 

[Bekind89]

Maybe @Bekind89 …. someone was worried more about what the son might say to investigators in the house? So maybe it was the lesser of two possible scenarios? And someone else said this earlier in the threads…… but I won’t find it now. There are too many threads here on this case IMO. And they should be collapsed into one. Too much confusion. MOO

Well damn. Good point.

Patsy was aware and seemingly didn't have an issue with it.

And it wasn't just changing her panties, it was wiping her behind.

One of the questions I have always had, is Patsy talking about having the discussion with Dr. Beuf, herself and JonBenet about allowing anyone to touch her private areas. And yet it was no secret that JonBenet would call out to anyone nearby to wipe her. Seems like that should've been addressed.

Patsy was aware and seemingly didn't have an issue with it.

And it wasn't just changing her panties, it was wiping her behind.

One of the questions I have always had, is Patsy talking about having the discussion with Dr. Beuf, herself and JonBenet about allowing anyone to touch her private areas. And yet it was no secret that JonBenet would call out to anyone nearby to wipe her. Seems like that should've been addressed.

Honestly, there is a whole range of emotions that might go through someone. This kind of thinking is exactly what has led to numerous false accusations.

You are entitled to your opinion, however I do not believe there is anything normal about attempting to book a flight out of state within an hour of finding your murdered child's body so I respectfully disagree.

 

[UncoolNegated]

Well damn. Good point.





You are entitled to your opinion, however I do not believe there is anything normal about attempting to book a flight out of state within an hour of finding your murdered child's body so I respectfully disagree.

Well, have you ever known someone who had their house broken into? I have. She didn't book a flight but she did go across town to stay with friends. There is an impulse to leave your home when you learn of an intruder -- even for just a relatively minor crime like break-and-enter. I wouldn't want to be in my home the next night if a family member got killed in it the previous night -- for numerous reasons.

A normal person who discovers the body of their dead family member would DEDUCE that the home is unsafe and that someone extremely violent has access to it. There's a motive to go somewhere else. That's without even looking at psychological reactions that could cause all kinds of knee-jerk decisions.

The only part I would find weird is if he didn't take account of his son and wife's well-being, which I don't know if he did or not. But weird or inconsiderate means little when levying murder accusations. Honestly, if someone presented this flight booking as evidence that he'd committed a crime, it would just be tabloid stuff. It's an egregious argument.

 

[CloudedTruth]

Did the White's ever say how PR or JR were behaving during their Christmas dinner? I would think there would be some odd behaviour if one of them was about to kill their daughter and cover it up the way they are accused of doing.

Nothing out of the ordinary. Everyone seems to have had a good time, a nice evening.

IMO this was not a pre-meditated event. Nothing points to that. I think something happened that was the catalyst for a moment of rage.

 

[Bekind89]

Well, have you ever known someone who had their house broken into? I have. She didn't book a flight but she did go across town to stay with friends. There is an impulse to leave your home when you learn of an intruder -- even for just a relatively minor crime like break-and-enter. I wouldn't want to be in my home the next night if a family member got killed in it the previous night -- for numerous reasons.

A normal person who discovers the body of their dead family member would DEDUCE that the home is unsafe and that someone extremely violent has access to it. There's a motive to go somewhere else. That's without even looking at psychological reactions that could cause all kinds of knee-jerk decisions.

The only part I would find weird is if he didn't take account of his son and wife's well-being, which I don't know if he did or not. But weird or inconsiderate means little when levying murder accusations. Honestly, if someone presented this flight booking as evidence that he'd committed a crime, it would just be tabloid stuff. It's an egregious argument.

I understand what you are saying and I would never step one foot in that home again either.
What I am m saying is that it isn't the fact that he tried to book a flight or even hire an attorney. It is how shockingly quickly it happened. I worked on healthcare for many years before I was diagnosed with MS and unfortunately I witnessed parents losing a child.
Shock and numbness from such a devastating loss doesn't go away within an hour. It isn't only an emotional reaction, the body doesn't even work properly for awhile.
Everyone reacts differently, I understand that. But his reaction that quickly after finding out his daughter was dead was extremely odd and unusual.