MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* #3

[tlcya]

Reading between the lines in the article (and perhaps not reading very well), this seems to be the defense attorneys' are advancing the position that the school officials have legal immunity from the suit.

This, then could lead to a response of: We don't need to give you who the Dean of Students was because they are immune to your suit (unless a judge says otherwise).

In the end, I am hoping that the school officials are found to be immune- unless the personal injury guys can show they made decisions in bad faith.

The principal and staff at my children's school (roughest school in a district of ill repute) make decisions every year regarding which student are truly dangerous and need to get booted, which are salvageable with extra attention from scarce resources, and which pulled a one time stunt that was later exaggerated.

Their decisions involve students making threats and students possessing guns and knives at school. I would not want them second, third or fourth guessed by personal injury attorneys- unless they can prove to a very high level that the staff made decisions in bad faith.

I get their argument that they are immune, (not saying I agree with it because I don't' know what I feel about that yet) but I don't follow Fieger's stance. He acts as if he cannot amend his error in the complaint unless the attorneys for the school provide the name he needs. I don't believe that to be true. By now he has certainly ascertained who the right person is. So him insisting the defense must provide him with the proper name feels like BS and is more about gamesmanship than results. Of course they aren't going to provide him a name when their whole argument is going to be that they can't be sued anyway.

 

[Mominmi]

I get their argument that they are immune, (not saying I agree with it because I don't' know what I feel about that yet) but I don't follow Fieger's stance. He acts as if he cannot amend his error in the complaint unless the attorneys for the school provide the name he needs. I don't believe that to be true. By now he has certainly ascertained who the right person is. So him insisting the defense must provide him with the proper name feels like BS and is more about gamesmanship than results. Of course they aren't going to provide him a name when their whole argument is going to be that they can't be sued anyway.

Keeps his (Feiger’s) name in the news more. And from watching and listening to him for the twenty five years I lived in Michigan, being on the front page is really, really important to him personally. My opinion only.

 

[tlcya]

Keeps his (Feiger’s) name in the news more. And from watching and listening to him for the twenty five years I lived in Michigan, being on the front page is really, really important to him personally. My opinion only.

I kinda figured it was all about the press. Because his argument is dumb (IMO)

 

[Kristin Esq.]

I get their argument that they are immune, (not saying I agree with it because I don't' know what I feel about that yet) but I don't follow Fieger's stance. He acts as if he cannot amend his error in the complaint unless the attorneys for the school provide the name he needs. I don't believe that to be true. By now he has certainly ascertained who the right person is. So him insisting the defense must provide him with the proper name feels like BS and is more about gamesmanship than results. Of course they aren't going to provide him a name when their whole argument is going to be that they can't be sued anyway.

Exactly, he could easily Amend the Complaint once he learns it (if he, in fact, doesn't already know it). He could serve discovery asking that question if he really, in fact, does not already know the name.

It's good to know that this guy just likes being in the press. Though, even if there is no immunity, it may not bode well for those plaintiffs to have him as an attorney.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

WDIV anchor Devin Scillian interviews Oxford Community Schools Superintendent Tim Throne at 6:00PM this evening. I will post video as soon as it's available.

 

[Kristin Esq.]

WDIV anchor Devin Scillian interviews Oxford Community Schools Superintendent Tim Throne at 6:00PM this evening. I will post video as soon as it's available.

Thanks, I have a work call so I won't be able to watch it.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Oxford schools superintendent Tim Throne discusses shooting: ‘Our hearts are broken, but our spirit is not’ (clickondetroit.com)

Still unclear when high school will reopen, goal is end of January

OXFORD, Mich. – The worst thing that can happen in any school district happened in his. Tim Throne, the superintendent of Oxford Community Schools, sat down with Local 4′s Devin Scillian and discussed the shooting at Oxford High School.

It has been just over three weeks since police say 15-year-old Ethan Crumbley opened fire at Oxford High School killing four students and injuring six others and a teacher. That was Nov. 30.

Two days after the shooting, Throne appeared in a video message talking about healing and moving forward. He also said no discipline was warranted for the suspect prior to the shooting...

 

[Cool Cats]

Oxford school shooting suspect's mom texted son not to kill himself, defense lawyers say

When Jennifer Crumbley texted her son "Don't do it" on the day of the deadly Oxford High School shooting, she was reaching out to tell him not to kill himself, according to a new court filing.

This detail was disclosed Wednesday in a document seeking a lower bond for Jennifer and James Crumbley.

The filing in Rochester Hills District Court then cited the Jennifer Crumbley's "Don't do it" text to Ethan Crumbley that has made international headlines. The distinction could be important if the prosecution plans to use the text as evidence Jennifer Crumbley knew her son was dangerous.

Defense attorneys for the first time gave their account of how the Crumbleys felt following the shooting, and why they believe the prosecution will not be able to prove its case, specifically, that the Crumbleys knew their son would shoot up his school with a gun they had bought him as an early Christmas present.

"The prosecution will not be able to prove that the Crumbleys ... knew their son was a danger to other students, or that they knew there was a situation that required them to take care to avoid injuring another," defense attorneys Shannon Smith and Mariell Lehman wrote in the filing.

"When Mrs. Crumbley texted Ethan, 'Don't do it,' ... the shootings had already happened, Mr. Crumbley had determined the gun was missing and had notified authorities, and Mrs. Crumbley was texting her son to tell him not to kill himself," the defense states in the filing, later adding:

"They did not know Ethan was a threat to anyone; and they certainly did not anticipate or cause the tragedy that unfolded at Oxford High School."

 

[Arkay]

"When Mrs. Crumbley texted Ethan, 'Don't do it,' ... the shootings had already happened, Mr. Crumbley had determined the gun was missing and had notified authorities, and Mrs. Crumbley was texting her son to tell him not to kill himself," the defense states in the filing, later adding:

"They did not know Ethan was a threat to anyone; and they certainly did not anticipate or cause the tragedy that unfolded at Oxford High School."

Didn't all the earlier reports state that when the father called the school to say the gun was missing, that he stated his son might be the school shooter??????

That seems to be omitted from the defense attorney's statement. If those reports were accurate then maybe the mother was worried that Ethan would also kill himself, but it does not reflect the defense attorney's statement that "they did not know Ethan was a threat to anyone."

IMO

 

[Cool Cats]

Didn't all the earlier reports state that when the father called the school to say the gun was missing, that he stated his son might be the school shooter??????

That seems to be omitted from the defense attorney's statement. If those reports were accurate then maybe the mother was worried that Ethan would also kill himself, but it does not reflect the defense attorney's statement that "they did not know Ethan was a threat to anyone."

IMO

'Shooter's' dad called 911 40 MINUTES after his son 'shot 4 kids' with his gun

You are right, it will be on the 911 tape if the dad really said this, which shows the dad did have suspicion that his son was capable. With most parents, it wouldn't occur to them their son did it.

Now it has emerged that James Crumbley called 911 at 1.37pm, 40 minutes after the shooting, to report a gun was missing from their home and that his son may have been the shooter.

Fifteen minutes before James called 911, Jennifer reportedly texted her son, "Ethan, don't do it."

But the gun rampage had already happened.

 

[kaen]

Didn't all the earlier reports state that when the father called the school to say the gun was missing, that he stated his son might be the school shooter??????

That seems to be omitted from the defense attorney's statement. If those reports were accurate then maybe the mother was worried that Ethan would also kill himself, but it does not reflect the defense attorney's statement that "they did not know Ethan was a threat to anyone."

IMO

The earlier reports were that the father called 911 to report the gun missing and that his son might be the shooter. See below link.


ETHAN Crumbley's fugitive father James made a 911 call 40 minutes after his son allegedly shot four people dead, and the two bought the gun together, according to authorities........

Now it has emerged that James Crumbley called 911 at 1.37pm, 40 minutes after the shooting, to report a gun was missing from their home and that his son may have been the shooter.

Fifteen minutes before James called 911, Jennifer reportedly texted her son, "Ethan, don't do it."

But the gun rampage had already happened. 'Shooter's' dad called 911 40 MINUTES after his son 'shot 4 kids' with his gun

 

[Sundog]

'Shooter's' dad called 911 40 MINUTES after his son 'shot 4 kids' with his gun

You are right, it will be on the 911 tape if the dad really said this, which shows the dad did have suspicion that his son was capable. With most parents, it wouldn't occur to them their son did it.

Now it has emerged that James Crumbley called 911 at 1.37pm, 40 minutes after the shooting, to report a gun was missing from their home and that his son may have been the shooter.

Fifteen minutes before James called 911, Jennifer reportedly texted her son, "Ethan, don't do it."

But the gun rampage had already happened.

The gun was missing and it was after the parents met with school officials about Ethan's drawing, etc. So it doesn't appear surprising to me that the father would connect the two and think it could have been his son who was the shooter.

 

[Marysmith]

Didn't all the earlier reports state that when the father called the school to say the gun was missing, that he stated his son might be the school shooter??????

That seems to be omitted from the defense attorney's statement. If those reports were accurate then maybe the mother was worried that Ethan would also kill himself, but it does not reflect the defense attorney's statement that "they did not know Ethan was a threat to anyone."

IMO

Exactly my thoughts! Obviously she thought he was the shooter then!!

 

[steeltowngirl]

Oxford school shooting suspect's mom texted son not to kill himself, defense lawyers say

When Jennifer Crumbley texted her son "Don't do it" on the day of the deadly Oxford High School shooting, she was reaching out to tell him not to kill himself, according to a new court filing.

This detail was disclosed Wednesday in a document seeking a lower bond for Jennifer and James Crumbley.

The filing in Rochester Hills District Court then cited the Jennifer Crumbley's "Don't do it" text to Ethan Crumbley that has made international headlines. The distinction could be important if the prosecution plans to use the text as evidence Jennifer Crumbley knew her son was dangerous.

Defense attorneys for the first time gave their account of how the Crumbleys felt following the shooting, and why they believe the prosecution will not be able to prove its case, specifically, that the Crumbleys knew their son would shoot up his school with a gun they had bought him as an early Christmas present.

"The prosecution will not be able to prove that the Crumbleys ... knew their son was a danger to other students, or that they knew there was a situation that required them to take care to avoid injuring another," defense attorneys Shannon Smith and Mariell Lehman wrote in the filing.

"When Mrs. Crumbley texted Ethan, 'Don't do it,' ... the shootings had already happened, Mr. Crumbley had determined the gun was missing and had notified authorities, and Mrs. Crumbley was texting her son to tell him not to kill himself," the defense states in the filing, later adding:

"They did not know Ethan was a threat to anyone; and they certainly did not anticipate or cause the tragedy that unfolded at Oxford High School."

If Mrs. Crumbley was concerned her son was suicidal, why were they buying him a gun for a Christmas?

 

[steeltowngirl]

Reading between the lines in the article (and perhaps not reading very well), this seems to be the defense attorneys' are advancing the position that the school officials have legal immunity from the suit.

This, then could lead to a response of: We don't need to give you who the Dean of Students was because they are immune to your suit (unless a judge says otherwise).

In the end, I am hoping that the school officials are found to be immune- unless the personal injury guys can show they made decisions in bad faith.

The principal and staff at my children's school (roughest school in a district of ill repute) make decisions every year regarding which student are truly dangerous and need to get booted, which are salvageable with extra attention from scarce resources, and which pulled a one time stunt that was later exaggerated.

Their decisions involve students making threats and students possessing guns and knives at school. I would not want them second, third or fourth guessed by personal injury attorneys- unless they can prove to a very high level that the staff made decisions in bad faith.

This is why I support zero tolerance. Without it, schools are forced to make decisions about threats.

 

[rob525]

So. How long was it from the time the parents left the school until the time the shooting started? I find it odd that the shooting starts at 1:00, figure by the time word gets around is about on par with the time the mother is texting her son. When did the dad verify that Ethans gun was missing? If he called 911 at 1:40 it would seem that he did not check on the gun until after the alerts about an active shooter went out. Seems like mom immediately knew her son was involved. I still believe that these parents at the very least had a strong suspicion that their son would do this.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Parents of accused Oxford High shooter claim gun was locked and hidden (detroitnews.com)

Rochester Hills — The parents of the teen accused in the Oxford High School shooting had no idea their son posed a threat to anyone and the gun police said they took from him had been hidden in a locked drawer in their bedroom, attorneys for the couple wrote in a court filing.

Attorneys Shannon Smith and Mariell Lehman argued Oakland County Prosecutor Karen McDonald will have a difficult time proving gross negligence by James and Jennifer Crumbley, who are accused of buying the Sig Sauer Model SP 2022 9 mm semi-automatic handgun for their son Ethan Crumbley, 15, as a Christmas present.

James and Jennifer Crumbley are both charged with four counts of involuntary manslaughter in connection with the four students killed in the shooting and face up to 15 years in prison. Their son is charged as an adult and jailed on first-degree murder, terrorism and other charges in the Nov. 30 shooting that could keep him behind bars for the rest of his life...

Parents of suspected Oxford school shooter ask for bond to be lowered (clickondetroit.com)

Couple currently being held on $500,00 bonds

OAKLAND COUNTY, Mich. – The parents of the teen accused of killing four students and injuring seven other people at Oxford High School have requested that their bond be lowered...

Defense for the couple argued that they didn’t think their son would be violent...

Defense attorney Shannon Smith said her clients didn’t anticipate or know that their son would commit violence and that the couple is devastated. Smith is asking the judge to lower the couple’s bond to $100,000 and request that they wear electronic monitors if they are released from jail...

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Parents of school shooting suspect seek lower bail on involuntary manslaughter charges (nbcnews.com)

James and Jennifer Crumbley are accused of making a gun accessible to their 15-year-old son who allegedly used it to kill four people at his Michigan high school.

DETROIT — The parents of a teenager charged with killing four students at a Michigan high school didn’t anticipate that he would commit violence and are “devastated” like others in the community, a lawyer said Wednesday in requesting that they be granted a lower bond.

James and Jennifer Crumbley are charged with involuntary manslaughter and have been jailed on $500,000 bond since their arrest on Dec. 4. They’re accused of making a gun accessible their son and failing to pull him out of school when summoned about his writings before the shooting on Nov. 30...

 

[Cryptic]

This is why I support zero tolerance. Without it, schools are forced to make decisions about threats.

Our school's (roughest school in a district of ill repute) ability to use zero tolerance is limited by the number spaces available in the alternative school.

Usually, the alternative school is near capacity and a complete and total expulsion is not possible. So, the principle needs to make judgement calls on who they banish there. Then there is the issues of kids coming back from the alternative school more "experienced" and thus more problematic.

Likewise, being banished to on line classes may not be an option as our state requires in person classes for any parent who wishes it- even parents of problem children.

 

[Shamrock1]

If Mrs. Crumbley was concerned her son was suicidal, why were they buying him a gun for a Christmas?

Maybe the parents were thinking it would be a good hobby? I think Adam Lanza’s mother did something similar. Obviously, the better choice would be to rent one from a gun range (ie gun stays at the range) instead of buying & keeping it at home. Or just get him into painting or coding or piano instead. JMO.