MN MN - Madeline Jane Kingsbury, 26, mother of 2, Winona 31 Mar 2023

[JennieM]

Madeline Kingsbury’s van​

'Madeline “Maddi” Kingsbury’s dark blue Chrysler Town and Country van is currently being processed for evidence according to Winona Police.
The dark blue van is at the center of the investigation as law enforcement believes the whereabouts of the vehicle may lead to the location of Ms Kingsbury.'

Missing Madeline Kingsbury planned to move from home shared with kids’s father

Adam Fravel, the father of Madeline Kingsbury’s children, has denied any involvement in her disappearance

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Erutan]

Madeline Kingsbury’s van​

'Madeline “Maddi” Kingsbury’s dark blue Chrysler Town and Country van is currently being processed for evidence according to Winona Police.
The dark blue van is at the center of the investigation as law enforcement believes the whereabouts of the vehicle may lead to the location of Ms Kingsbury.'

Missing Madeline Kingsbury planned to move from home shared with kids’s father

Adam Fravel, the father of Madeline Kingsbury’s children, has denied any involvement in her disappearance

www.independent.co.uk

Thanks for this update, @JennieM !

Hmmm...
Looking at the interior, plus the debris and plants, etc. stuck to the tires ?
I think LE have an idea of what they're expecting ?
M00.

 

[Joe Friday]

Father of Madeline Kingsbury's children not speaking to missing woman's family​

The father of Madeline Kingsbury's children has not spoken to the missing Minnesota woman's family since her "involuntary" disappearance more than three weeks ago, her family told Fox News Digital.

Father of Madeline Kingsbury's children not speaking to missing woman's family

Madeline Kingsbury, a 26-year-old mom of two, went missing from her Winona, Minnesota, home on March 31 "involuntary" and under "suspicious" circumstances, according to police.

www.foxnews.com

 

[chipwhitley]

Madeline Kingsbury’s van​

'Madeline “Maddi” Kingsbury’s dark blue Chrysler Town and Country van is currently being processed for evidence according to Winona Police.
The dark blue van is at the center of the investigation as law enforcement believes the whereabouts of the vehicle may lead to the location of Ms Kingsbury.'

Missing Madeline Kingsbury planned to move from home shared with kids’s father

Adam Fravel, the father of Madeline Kingsbury’s children, has denied any involvement in her disappearance

www.independent.co.uk

Ugh this update and the report that the father isn't speaking to Maddi's family is concerning Her poor babies and family

 

[JennieM]

Ugh this update and the report that the father isn't speaking to Maddi's family is concerning Her poor babies and family

Al the red flags are there.

 

[Erutan]

Ugh this update and the report that the father isn't speaking to Maddi's family is concerning Her poor babies and family

What is also concerning is that if Madaline (or her remains, sorry to type that) is never found and this man decides to get custody of the two children --her family may be cut off from them !
One wonders why he was denied having custody in the first place, if this is what happened ?
IF his custodial rights were denied prior to Madaline's disappearance, one wonders under what scenario ?
Or maybe he just never signed the paperwork ; that's also a possibility.
Scary and horrifying for Madaline's family, I can't imagine how they're coping with any of this.
Imo.

 

[JennieM]

Some discussion regarding the absence of a pilot licence under the comments of the latest police press release.

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[Erutan]

Regarding your scenario #8, this is what I have thought was most likely, due to the fact that Adam's parents live just off of the highway (43) where the police say a van just like hers was traveling. (Also, about an hour fROM her house, plenty of time to get back by 1:30pm.)

Wouldn't the police have enough to justify a search warrant of their property? Or is what they have just not enough???
I wonder if the police have asked to search their property and were told "no", or, I guess there's always the possibility the area has been searched. However, its a few acres and it seems like if any sort of police presence was out there it would have been noticed and reported via the local news and civilian searchers still out there.

Bbm.
Eta : By now, one would assume LE have asked AF this ?
Oh to be a fly on the wall ... and listen to -- and see -- the response.

My guess is that LE either have searched there or are going to in the future ?
Hoping that this case does not wind up being similar to the Kristin Smart case ?
Imo.

 

[Erutan]

My mind has been running in circles thinking about poor Maddi and where she could be. Since Maddi has not been found despite an extensive search, I decided to focus my thoughts on possible reasons why she hasn't been found. Using my "not always sound" logic, I've made a short list of scenarios below and indicated if I considered the scenario to be likely or not.

To stay within TOS, I will use the term "the perpetrator" to identify the person responsible for the disappearance of Maddi.

1) Maddi is hiding voluntarily; based on all descriptions of her commitment to her kids/family, this scenario is impossible, IMO

2) Maddi harmed herself; based on all descriptions of her commitment to her kids/family this scenario is highly unlikely, IMO

3) Abducted and being held captive some place by the perpetrator; possible, however IMO, unlikely.

4) Premeditated plan by the perpetrator, with a previously created site for body disposal this is not easily found; possible but IMO, unlikely

5) Premeditated plan by the perpetrator, with an accomplice that met the perpetrator at a designated place to pass the body on so it could be disposed of further away than the perpetrator could have travelled in the time window from 10 am to 1:30 pm. This would place the body outside of the anticipated search area; possible but IMO, unlikely

6) Premeditated plan by the perpetrator for Maddi to be abducted by someone other than the perpetrator and taken outside of the anticipated search area for disposal; possible but IMO, unlikely

7) Unplanned and sudden act of violence by the perpetrator with subsequent disposal of body in a waterway - river, lake or pond; possible scenario, IMO

8) Unplanned and sudden act of violence by the perpetrator with subsequent disposal of the body with help from a second party, perhaps on private property that won't be searched; most likely scenario, IMO.

I wish we knew what the father of her children does to make a living that would require him to use Maddi's van, as well as allow him to work a rather short shift of 10 am to 1:30 pm? And, is this a normal work day schedule for him? If so, and Maddi works from home, who would know she is alone during that timeframe?

I can't stop thinking about Maddi, her kids and her family. Prayers for them all for peace and strength.

Ita with everything above.

 

[KellyK21]

Bbm.
Eta : By now, one would assume LE have asked AF this ?
Oh to be a fly on the wall ... and listen to -- and see -- the response.

My guess is that LE either have searched there or are going to in the future ?
Hoping that this case does not wind up being similar to the Kristin Smart case ?
Imo.

This. The Kristin Smart family helping family bit. NOOOOOOOOOO.

 

[Erutan]

UPDATE: Police ask residents for signs to help locate missing Winona woman

The Winona Police Department is asking for help in locating a missing woman.

www.kaaltv.com

Residents are asked to check their properties, including any video cameras, doorbell cameras, game cameras, etc. for a dark colored Chrysler Town and Country van, signs of disturbance, or any other suspicious activity between the hours of 8:00 a.m. on Friday, Mar. 31 through 4:00 p.m. on Saturday, Apr. 1.
Emphasis mine.
This indicates (imo) that there may be disturbed earth people need to ne on the lookout for ?
The wording is specific and grim.

I'd love to be wrong and she left due to an emotional instability, but can still be located and rescued.

Her own family saying this disappearance is out of character is telling, though.

The most dangerous time for a person is telling the other person they're not only looking for a different place to live, but may be cutting ties ?
So far it sounds like Madaline still trusted him-- but maybe AF felt betrayed somehow ?
M00.

 

[hparker36]

What is also concerning is that if Madaline (or her remains, sorry to type that) is never found and this man decides to get custody of the two children --her family may be cut off from them !
One wonders why he was denied having custody in the first place, if this is what happened ?
IF his custodial rights were denied prior to Madaline's disappearance, one wonders under what scenario ?
Or maybe he just never signed the paperwork ; that's also a possibility.
Scary and horrifying for Madaline's family, I can't imagine how they're coping with any of this.
Imo.

You will have to read about the MN law or unmarried couples. Which has been shared in this group. He never signed the ROP, recognition of parenting, which means he had no custody and the children had to go to social services. IMO, even if they donot find her, he can still be denied custody just by the bad behavior he had when SS was trying to remove the children from the home. Just my opinion.

 

[hparker36]

What is also concerning is that if Madaline (or her remains, sorry to type that) is never found and this man decides to get custody of the two children --her family may be cut off from them !
One wonders why he was denied having custody in the first place, if this is what happened ?
IF his custodial rights were denied prior to Madaline's disappearance, one wonders under what scenario ?
Or maybe he just never signed the paperwork ; that's also a possibility.
Scary and horrifying for Madaline's family, I can't imagine how they're coping with any of this.
Imo.

He never had custodial right before she went missing and at this time still does not have them.

 

[Erutan]

Welcome to Websleuths, @KellyK21 !

Yep, hoping that the reason Madaline still hasn't been found, is due to any outside help -- if there's been foul play which we don't know for sure yet.
Imo.

 

[Joe Friday]

Some discussion regarding the absence of a pilot licence under the comments of the latest police press release.

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If you want to check pilot licenses, do so here: https://amsrvs.registry.faa.gov/airmeninquiry/

The plane that AF was pictured next to is a Aviation Club plane. That is a plane that many people belonging to a club own. Pilots in the club buy a share and pay dues. This is a good way to have access to a plane, without having the sole expense of owning a plane yourself.

Clubs charge an hourly rate to fly the clubs plane. The time a pilot uses the plane is usually kept track of on a time sheet based on the hour meter in the plane and each pilot is billed at the end of the month for the time they fly, along with monthly dues.

It would be very hard for anyone to use a "club plane" and not record their time. There would be a lapse in time on the time sheet and it wouldn't take long to figure out someone flew the plane and didn't record their time.

All planes are now required by the FAA to have Automatic Dependent Surveillance -Broadcast (ADS-B). This is a system that sends a signal to the Air Traffic Controllers to tell them, where the plane is, what the tail number of the plane is, what speed the plane is traveling and what altitude the plane is at. The ADS-B data is recorded and could be used to track a planes past movements. As I said before, the plane that AF was pictured next to, did not fly on March 31st or April 1st according to the ADS-B data.

The ADB-B system could be turned off, but it would throw up huge red flags to Air Traffic Controllers since the plane would still show up on radar, just with no information. Radar data is also recorded. So if a plane left the home airport where this plane is based without it's ADS-B system on, it would be known.

Student pilots must fly with an instructor until they have been signed off to fly solo and have a current medical certificate. Student pilots can not carry passengers unless their instructor is with them. A student pilot's solo endorsement is only good for 90 days. Someone in a club that is a student pilot would not be permitted to fly a plane solo without a current student solo endorsement and medical certificate. Someone who received their student pilot's license years ago and has still not obtained their private pilots license, is probably no longer flying. Second Class medical certificates are only good for 12 months. (A second class medical certificate issued 9/2020 would be expired)

A student pilot has enough on thier hands just flying a plane by themselves, much less trying to open a door (which is just about impossible when flying, try opening your car door going 110 MPH) and tossing large things such as a body out without loosing control.

 

[Erutan]

You will have to read about the MN law or unmarried couples. Which has been shared in this group. He never signed the ROP, recognition of parenting, which means he had no custody and the children had to go to social services. IMO, even if they donot find her, he can still be denied custody just by the bad behavior he had when SS was trying to remove the children from the home. Just my opinion.

Yes, thanks -- I read about the ROP that he didn't sign.
My post was more of an addendum to that.
I should have clarified.

Just hypothesizing about the reasons for that ... and if there was any history that we're not aware of ?
I mentioned earlier that there are no photos of AF in Madaline's FB pics of her and the kids.
M00.

 

[JennieM]

If you want to check pilot licenses, do so here: https://amsrvs.registry.faa.gov/airmeninquiry/

The plane that AF was pictured next to is a Aviation Club plane. That is a plane that many people belonging to a club own. Pilots in the club buy a share and pay dues. This is a good way to have access to a plane, without having the sole expense of owning a plane yourself.

Clubs charge an hourly rate to fly the clubs plane. The time a pilot uses the plane is usually kept track of on a time sheet based on the hour meter in the plane and each pilot is billed at the end of the month for the time they fly, along with monthly dues.

It would be very hard for anyone to use a "club plane" and not record their time. There would be a lapse in time on the time sheet and it wouldn't take long to figure out someone flew the plane and didn't record their time.

All planes are now required by the FAA to have Automatic Dependent Surveillance -Broadcast (ADS-B). This is a system that sends a signal to the Air Traffic Controllers to tell them, where the plane is, what the tail number of the plane is, what speed the plane is traveling and what altitude the plane is at. The ADS-B data is recorded and could be used to track a planes past movements. As I said before, the plane that AF was pictured next to, did not fly on March 31st or April 1st according to the ADS-B data.

The ADB-B system could be turned off, but it would throw up huge red flags to Air Traffic Controllers since the plane would still show up on radar, just with no information. Radar data is also recorded. So if a plane left the home airport where this plane is based without it's ADS-B system on, it would be known.

Student pilots must fly with an instructor until they have been signed off to fly solo and have a current medical certificate. Student pilots can not carry passengers unless their instructor is with them. A student pilot's solo endorsement is only good for 90 days. Someone in a club that is a student pilot would not be permitted to fly a plane solo without a current student solo endorsement and medical certificate. Someone who received their student pilot's license years ago and has still not obtained their private pilots license, is probably no longer flying. Second Class medical certificates are only good for 12 months. (A second class medical certificate issued 9/2020 would be expired)

A student pilot has enough on thier hands just flying a plane by themselves, much less trying to open a door (which is just about impossible when flying, try opening your car door going 110 MPH) and tossing large things such as a body out without loosing control.

Very insightful, thank you!

 

[JennieM]

If you want to check pilot licenses, do so here: https://amsrvs.registry.faa.gov/airmeninquiry/

The plane that AF was pictured next to is a Aviation Club plane. That is a plane that many people belonging to a club own. Pilots in the club buy a share and pay dues. This is a good way to have access to a plane, without having the sole expense of owning a plane yourself.

Clubs charge an hourly rate to fly the clubs plane. The time a pilot uses the plane is usually kept track of on a time sheet based on the hour meter in the plane and each pilot is billed at the end of the month for the time they fly, along with monthly dues.

It would be very hard for anyone to use a "club plane" and not record their time. There would be a lapse in time on the time sheet and it wouldn't take long to figure out someone flew the plane and didn't record their time.

All planes are now required by the FAA to have Automatic Dependent Surveillance -Broadcast (ADS-B). This is a system that sends a signal to the Air Traffic Controllers to tell them, where the plane is, what the tail number of the plane is, what speed the plane is traveling and what altitude the plane is at. The ADS-B data is recorded and could be used to track a planes past movements. As I said before, the plane that AF was pictured next to, did not fly on March 31st or April 1st according to the ADS-B data.

The ADB-B system could be turned off, but it would throw up huge red flags to Air Traffic Controllers since the plane would still show up on radar, just with no information. Radar data is also recorded. So if a plane left the home airport where this plane is based without it's ADS-B system on, it would be known.

Student pilots must fly with an instructor until they have been signed off to fly solo and have a current medical certificate. Student pilots can not carry passengers unless their instructor is with them. A student pilot's solo endorsement is only good for 90 days. Someone in a club that is a student pilot would not be permitted to fly a plane solo without a current student solo endorsement and medical certificate. Someone who received their student pilot's license years ago and has still not obtained their private pilots license, is probably no longer flying. Second Class medical certificates are only good for 12 months. (A second class medical certificate issued 9/2020 would be expired)

A student pilot has enough on thier hands just flying a plane by themselves, much less trying to open a door (which is just about impossible when flying, try opening your car door going 110 MPH) and tossing large things such as a body out without loosing control.

So it sounds like we can eliminate the idea of a plane then. The focus remains on the van.

 

[JennieM]

double post

 

[rescuemom]

Ita with everything above.

I listened to an interview with the sister of MK and she spoke in a relaxed way except for any question about AF. She was hesitant to say anything good or bad about him and her voice dropped when answering. So, IMO, she thinks he may have had something to do with the disappearance. I'm wondering if LE feels the same and is not going to make a move on him unless and until they are positive he was involved and have solid evidence. ITMT, I'm hoping they have him under surveillance so he can't try to vanish. All JMO