NY - Jordan Neely, killed by chokehold in subway during mental health crisis, Manhattan, 1 May 2023 *arrest* #2

[Sundog]

I think they mean the guy who recorded part of the incident on his phone and posted it on social media. I don't believe he holds any press credentials, and his video could have been edited. For those reasons, I'm doubtful his video will be allowed at trial.

It will be interesting to hear his testimony under oath and upon cross-examination.

 

[10ofRods]

It will be interesting to hear his testimony under oath and upon cross-examination.

I agree. Because he's also an eyewitness, I think he and the video will come in. If he edited it, then he has an unedited version, I would assume (esp if he's a journalist). At any rate, mere editing won't keep a relevant video out.

IMO.

 

[JennieM]

I don't need to read it again...where did the 15 minutes come from. Your post reads " The New York Police Department received a call about a fight on the train at 2:27 p.m., and arrived before 2:30 p.m., administering first aid to an unconscious Neely.

It doesn't mean the chokehold started at 2:27 p.m. That's when a call was received about it.

 

[Sundog]

In order for Penny to claim that he was defending someone else, he would have to know that there had been a direct threat by Mr Neely. Expressing fear is not enough to help Penny. Penny thinking people were afraid is definitely not enough to justify his actions.



I won’t name it but it is a self-proclaimed “Christian” alternative to the main fundraising site. The main site does not allow fundraising for anyone charged with a serious crime. This site does and is a favorite of conservatives. Rittenhouse can be googled. I don’t want to derail the thread.

It is a Christian fundraising site that doesn't discriminate based on politics of the fundraiser or take sides. They became better known when another site seized the money raised by the Trucker's Convey in Canada and the Christian site allowed fundraising on their site.

The owner is a devout Christian.

 

[Murphy1950]

It doesn't mean the chokehold started at 2:27 p.m. That's when a call was received about it.

Exactly...but that is what the headlines screamed since day 2 maybe day 1. So how does anybody know?

 

[Lilibet]

I don't need to read it again...where did the 15 minutes come from. Your post reads " The New York Police Department received a call about a fight on the train at 2:27 p.m., and arrived before 2:30 p.m., administering first aid to an unconscious Neely.

What I’m asking @MyBelle has nothing at all to do with the possible 15 minute length of the chokehold. But as far as that number goes, you seem to think that the apparent 3 minute time between the first 911 call and LE finding an unconscious Neely negates the 15 minute chokehold account. Perhaps someone else can help you out with that. It may have been an early report of 15 minutes estimated by a witness that has since been revised. I know that in any case we follow, early reporting is often less accurate than later reporting. Can someone help @Murphy1950 with this question, please.

 

[JennieM]

Exactly...but that is what the headlines screamed since day 2 maybe day 1. So how does anybody know?

The report of 15 minutes came from an eyewitness.

NBC News
May 5, 2023, 10:01 PM BST
By Marlene Lenthang

"The situation escalated and he was held in a chokehold for about 15 minutes by a 24-year-old subway rider, according to an eyewitness."

What we know about the chokehold death of Jordan Neely on a NYC subway

Neely, 30, died after he was held in a chokehold for about 15 minutes in an altercation on a subway train, according to a witness. His death was ruled a homicide.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Allabouttrial]

“Recruits learn specific techniques to use in a last-chance situation if they don’t have a weapon,” said Sgt. Brandon Karnes, drill instructor, Platoon 1051, Co. C, 1st RTBn. “These choking techniques, if applied properly, are a fast and safe way to knock out the enemy.”
The two types of chokes that recruits learn are the rear choke and figure-four variation. Both techniques are blood chokes. By applying pressure to the carotid artery, the major artery of the head and neck, blood flow is restricted to the brain causing the enemy to pass out.
“A properly applied blood choke can knock out an enemy in less than eight seconds,” said Karnes. “Trying to restrict air to a victim can take close to a minute, which is enough time for the enemy to fight back.”

Recruits then learned counter techniques to chokes and holds. The three techniques: counter to the rear choke, counter to the headlock and counter to the bear hug, allow recruits to break away from the enemy, throw them off balance and follow on with additional strikes.
“These techniques give us a chance to react quickly during a surprise attack,” explained Recruit Sterling Sallee, Plt. 1053, Co. C, 1st RTBn. “You never know what type of situation you can be in where someone is able to sneak up on you.”
Karnes, a black belt Martial Arts Instructor, explained that although MCMAP teaches recruits how to defend themselves, it also stresses the importance of controlling a situation with the least amount of force.

MCMAP helps develop a Marines’ character. It helps make them mentally stronger and teaches the responsible use of force, leadership and importance of teamwork.
“I think it’s important that we learn these techniques,” said Sallee. “It’s important to learn how to protect yourself without taking someone else’s life in the process.”

Co. C recruits learn responsible use of force

In their fourth week of training, recruits of Company C, 1st Recruit Training Battalion, learned chokes and counter techniques during a Marine Corps Martial Arts Program session aboard Marine Corps

www.marines.mil

My brother said when he was trained, strangle holds were taught as a form of defense against an attack. Learning how to protect yourself in a combat situation turning defence into attack either with or without weapons.

Bear in mind, this is how he was taught, US may vary in their training.

 

[Allabouttrial]

I agree. Because he's also an eyewitness, I think he and the video will come in. If he edited it, then he has an unedited version, I would assume (esp if he's a journalist). At any rate, mere editing won't keep a relevant video out.

IMO.

Hmmm not 100% sure editing wouldn't keep it out. Like you say though he should still have the original. The metadata will show if the video has been edited in any way.

 

[JennieM]

@Murphy1950
The eyewitness in question appears to be the man who filmed the incident:

'Cellphone video taken by passenger Juan Alberto Vazquez showed the 24-year-old man on the ground with his arm around Neely’s neck. Two other subway riders appear to help restrain Neely, who was Black.

Vazquez told NBC New York that Neely got on the train and “began to say a somewhat aggressive speech, saying he was hungry, he was thirsty, that he didn’t care about anything, he didn’t care about going to jail, he didn’t care that he gets a big life sentence.”

Vazquez said Neely was held in the chokehold position for about 15 minutes.'

What we know about the chokehold death of Jordan Neely on a NYC subway

Neely, 30, died after he was held in a chokehold for about 15 minutes in an altercation on a subway train, according to a witness. His death was ruled a homicide.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Murphy1950]

The report of 15 minutes came from an eyewitness.

NBC News
May 5, 2023, 10:01 PM BST
By Marlene Lenthang

"The situation escalated and he was held in a chokehold for about 15 minutes by a 24-year-old subway rider, according to an eyewitness."

What we know about the chokehold death of Jordan Neely on a NYC subway

Neely, 30, died after he was held in a chokehold for about 15 minutes in an altercation on a subway train, according to a witness. His death was ruled a homicide.

www.nbcnews.com

@JennieM thank you for the article.

The situation escalated and he was held in a chokehold for about 15 minutes by a 24-year-old subway rider. One witness's guess/estimate.
I was in a bank robbery once. Worked as a teller. There were 5 tellers and bunch of customers. The first thing the FBI does is divide you up, so there is no discussion. Most said they were there for 20 minutes, I thought that was ridiculous I said 10 minutes max (some thought up to an hour)...It was 2 minutes and 43 seconds when the video was rerun. 50 years later I still remember, 2 minutes and 43 and seconds. In the actual situation that day, it was a lifetime. I had a gun to my head to boot and felt it against my forehead for years, also not unusual.

Needless to say under a stressful situation that is not unusual at all. Time stands still.

 

[JennieM]

The situation escalated and he was held in a chokehold for about 15 minutes by a 24-year-old subway rider. One witness guessestimated.
I was in a bank robbery once. Worked as a teller. There were 5 tellers and bunch of customers. The first thing the FBI does is divide you up, so there is no discussion. Most said they were there for 20 minutes, I thought that was ridiculous I said 10 minutes max...It was 2 minutes and 43 seconds when the video was rerun. 50 years later I still remember. 2 minutes and 43 seconds.
Needless to say under a stressful situation that is not unusual at all.

He is a key eyewitness. His comments and their validity will be examined in the trial.

 

[MyBelle]

It will be interesting to hear his testimony under oath and upon cross-examination.

I doubt the prosecution wants to risk it. The guy's story seems all over the place and he chose to post the video on social media. I wonder if he even spoke to the police. <modsnip> I wonder if JN's autopsy report has been released to him yet.

JMO

 

[JennieM]

@JennieM thank you for the article.

The situation escalated and he was held in a chokehold for about 15 minutes by a 24-year-old subway rider. One witness guessestimated.
I was in a bank robbery once. Worked as a teller. There were 5 tellers and bunch of customers. The first thing the FBI does is divide you up, so there is no discussion. Most said they were there for 20 minutes, I thought that was ridiculous I said 10 minutes max...It was 2 minutes and 43 seconds when the video was rerun. 50 years later I still remember. 2 minutes and 43 seconds.
Needless to say under a stressful situation that is not unusual at all.

If it is proved that it was a 15-minute chokehold, would you think Penny went too far?

 

[JennieM]

I doubt the prosecution wants to risk it. The guy's story seems all over the place and he chose to post the video on social media. I wonder if he even spoke to the police. It's interesting to see that Penny's attorney was Bragg's Republican opponent. I wonder if JN's autopsy report has been released to him yet.

JMO

His story is not all over the place, he seems consistent in what he says.

Do you really think police has not spoken to him?

 

[MyBelle]

@JennieM thank you for the article.

The situation escalated and he was held in a chokehold for about 15 minutes by a 24-year-old subway rider. One witness's guess/estimate.
I was in a bank robbery once. Worked as a teller. There were 5 tellers and bunch of customers. The first thing the FBI does is divide you up, so there is no discussion. Most said they were there for 20 minutes, I thought that was ridiculous I said 10 minutes max...It was 2 minutes and 43 seconds when the video was rerun. 50 years later I still remember. 2 minutes and 43 seconds.
Needless to say under a stressful situation that is not unusual at all.

I'm sorry you experienced that emotional trauma. I don't believe the chokehold lasted for 15 minutes. The Mayor said LE were on the scene within 6 minutes of the first 911 call.

JMO

 

[Lilibet]

The situation escalated and he was held in a chokehold for about 15 minutes by a 24-year-old subway rider. One witness guessestimated.
I was in a bank robbery once. Worked as a teller. There were 5 tellers and bunch of customers. The first thing the FBI does is divide you up, so there is no discussion. Most said they were there for 20 minutes, I thought that was ridiculous I said 10 minutes max...It was 2 minutes and 43 seconds when the video was rerun. 50 years later I still remember. 2 minutes and 43 seconds.
Needless to say under a stressful situation that is not unusual at all.

I agree with you that eyewitness accounts of time or descriptions of people are often inaccurate or not consistent with other witnesses. Stressful events often seem like they take longer than they really do, as you discovered.

What I’ve noticed in so many cases here on WS is that MSM gets initial information that may not be precise because they are relying on witnesses and a story is fast-moving. As time goes on, and an investigation takes place, the information they provide changes to reflect that. MSM is unable to wait for months for perfect information, even though the responsible ones try to revise their reports.

So, personally I don’t know that it matters right now whether the chokehold was 4-5 minutes or 15. It was long enough for Mr Neely to die. Penny was told he could be killing him and didn’t stop. So the timing will no doubt become more clear later, as more witnesses are interviewed by LE.

I hope this helps.

JMO

 

[JennieM]

I'm sorry you experienced that emotional trauma. I don't believe the chokehold lasted for 15 minutes. The Mayor said LE were on the scene within 6 minutes of the first 911 call.

JMO

Why do you think the first 911 call was made the second the chokehold started?

 

[MyBelle]

Why do you think the first 911 call was made the second the chokehold started?

I think the first 911 call was made because JN was acting totally crazy. I also think JN threatened to have a weapon and that's why everyone was so afraid.

If you were in a crowded space and someone came in acting crazy and threatening everyone, wouldn't you try to call 911? I sure would.

JMO

 

[JennieM]

I think the first 911 call was made because JN was acting totally crazy. I also think JN threatened to have a weapon and that's why everyone was so afraid.

If you were in a crowded space and someone came in acting crazy and threatening everyone, wouldn't you try to call 911? I sure would.

JMO

From what has been reported so far, the first call was made during the fight.

That's all we know for now.