NY - Jordan Neely, killed by chokehold in subway during mental health crisis, Manhattan, 1 May 2023 *arrest*

[MyBelle]

He stopped resisting because he died!

I believe he stopped resisting because he passed out. According to the video, I do believe the other man checked and JN still had a pulse.

JMO

 

[JennieM]

I believe he stopped resisting because he passed out. According to the video, I do believe the other man checked and JN still had a pulse.

JMO

I'll rewrite my comment then.

He stopped resisting because he was dying.

 

[MyBelle]

Honest questions …..
Why do so many people think JN’s race is important? I’m struggling to keep up but don’t remember reading that anything race specific happened, or was said.
For the folks that think NYC dropped the ball or didn’t do enough for JN, besides jail what else could they do? Obviously forcing mental health help, or medication can’t be done.

I've not seen any evidence that anything racist was said or even implied. I think Penny would have reacted the same way if a crazed white guy was spewing threats.

There was plenty that NYC could do. Both the City and the State have pumped a ton of money into providing services, including medical and housing to the homeless and mentally ill.

Jordan Neely was on NYC’s ‘Top 50 list’ of homeless people with urgent need for help before subway death

Referred to colloquially as the “Top 50” list, the internal catalogue held by the NYC Department of Homeless Services details which people are cycling in and out of homeless shelters an…

nypost.com

 

[nao]

Moo..Mr. Neely was on a rage not a rant..there is a big difference. Mr Neely was lucid he was baiting. At that moment Mr Neely had control of the cabin(or whatever you call them) a captive audience. But he is not focused on any particular person. So the smart thing was get him from behind. I find the offer of a sandwich,(and thinking this will subdue his rage) really insulting to Mr Neely. <modsnip: antagonistic>.....moo

 

[IceIce9]

One question, though, would any of us want to have such a neighbor?

I would want to have Daniel Penny for a neighbor. I live in a suburb but random violent crimes have happened, including home invasions and carjackings.

I’m a single female. It would be comforting to me to know I had a neighbor who was willing to protect in the event of a violent crime in my neighborhood.

 

[Deleted member 287549]

I've not seen any evidence that anything racist was said or even implied. I think Penny would have reacted the same way if a crazed white guy was spewing threats.

Agree with this. There's no way to know for sure, of course. But, I also believe DP would have done the same thing no matter what race the person was - if they were acting unhinged/belligerent/threatening....as JN allegedly was.

Those of us who encounter mentally ill/unhinged/violent people on a regular basis are fully aware that they all may look different....but, the one common denominator is that you have to keep an eye on them - due to their all being extremely unpredictable.

 

[shotgun09]

dbm

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Not a concern in the least having him as a neighbor.
He made a terrible, tragic mistake, he's not a murderer.

jmo

I don’t think he was a murderer before he set foot on that subway. Yet he did kill, so he is now a killer. What’s the difference? Words? Semantics?

 

[MyBelle]

I don’t think he was a murderer before he set foot on that subway. Yet he did kill, so he is now a killer. What’s the difference? Words? Semantics?

Yet, Penny hasn't been charged with murder. I believe the difference involves actual facts.

JN had viciously attacked an elderly woman and broke bones in her face with his fist. Was he trying to kill her? I hope she testifies at Penny's trial.

JMO

 

[Ontario Mom]

I don’t think he was a murderer before he set foot on that subway. Yet he did kill, so he is now a killer. What’s the difference? Words? Semantics?

Intent.

 

[nao]

Moo.. I was a street person. Mr Neely is my peer...I know his rage. Mr Penny surprises me..he is cold and efficient...he could of confronted Mr. Neely face on...but that would of been a mess, if Mr Neely can break the bones in a face, that takes strength. Mr Penny read the situation realistically..he let go when Mr Neely quit fighting. That's the way fights go. Moo

 

[MyBelle]

Moo.. I was a street person. Mr Neely is my peer...I know his rage. Mr Penny surprises me..he is cold and efficient...he could of confronted Mr. Neely face on...but that would of been a mess, if Mr Neely can break the bones in a face, that takes strength. Mr Penny read the situation realistically..he let go when Mr Neely quit fighting. That's the way fights go. Moo

We don't know where they were when the encountered started. They may well have been face to face or JN may have been focused on the elderly women and that's why Penny sprang into action.

I'm sorry about your experience on the street and hope you are keeping safe now!

JMO

 

[nao]

Moo..what to do..do you warehouse people that cannot control their emotions? Dope them up so they are compliant. Or just let them starve an live an die street life?

 

[Cryptic]

3) If DP and others were in genuine fear for their lives (possible) & if DP had tried to subdue JN with just a body hold - was DP strong enough to have done this without JN freeing himself?! And, if this had happened - would/could others have intervened and assisted DP with the body hold?!

I think all these points are all very valid. In the end there seems to be a need to a need for alot of balance in making an analysis.

- People do not need to wait until he starts victimizing somebody before they intervene. He could of had a weapon...
balanced with: Too many "ifs", "could haves", and "might ofs" in the defense will eventually break the camels back.

- Benefit of the doubt given and the choke hold from the onset was justified.
balanced with: The higher one dials up the force level, the more one needs to articulate why-and know what one is doing. Did DP need to maintain the choke hold after two other men were willing to assist in controlling Neely?

- Benefit of the doubt given and it was never DP's his intent to choke Neely to death.
balanced with: Did DP maintain the chokehold after receiving assistance and after being told it was killing Neely and also for far longer than he needed to?

For me, I can give some benefit of the doubt to DP and also entertain some "might ofs" and "could ofs" regarding Neely. But... the totality is getting close to breaking the camel's back.

I would really want to know for how long the choke hold was maintained and to what extent the choke time exceeded the "likely lethal dose" threshold.

 

[MyBelle]

Moo..what to do..do you warehouse people that cannot control their emotions? Dope them up so they are compliant. Or just let them starve an live an die street life?

I do think providing homeless shelters along with food and healthcare is a good idea. I think the Gov. and Mayor are trying to help keep all people safe but they need to explain why JN, supposedly on the Top 50 list of most serious cases, was still in the subway.

JMO

 

[nao]

Moo. Never pity a street person, my life was sad enough without that. But it was also beautiful, shared life with many that let go, or ended up in jail for life...and no they were not evil....moo

 

[LinasK]

Blame those or the one who initiated closure of state mental health hospitals in the 90es… in NYC homeless are less noticeable than in San Francisco or Seattle. (Or Vancouver, BC). I can see that every first one has mental issues.

It actually goes further back than that to when Ronald Reagan was governor of Caifornia. He ordered them to close down mental hospitals. Opinion: Here's how Reagan's decision to close mental institutions led to the homelessness crisis

 

[kittythehare]

Rev. Al: Jordan Neely's family is struggling with losing someone they loved

The Rev. Al Sharpton joins Morning Joe to discuss the funeral held for Jordan Neely, a 30-year-old man who died on an NYC subway train after being put in a chokehold by another passenger.

www.msnbc.com

 

[nao]

Moo..I thought Mr Neely was living on the streets? Did any of his family share space with Mr Neely?

 

[Deleted member 287549]

It actually goes further back than that to when Ronald Reagan was governor of Caifornia. He ordered them to close down mental hospitals. Opinion: Here's how Reagan's decision to close mental institutions led to the homelessness crisis

Yes. IMHO the closing of many mental hospitals in the '80's directly led to the homeless crisis that we see today. Obviously, a lot of the homeless out there are mentally ill who are unable to hold down jobs; take care of their basis needs & be self-sufficient; etc.

Would there still be homeless if these mental hospitals hadn't closed?! Absolutely. But, I don't believe the issue would be as bad as it is now.