NY - UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson fatally shot in Midtown. #12 *Arrest*

[Megnut]

Why is it second degree murder and not first? he travelled into a different state to carry out murder, stalked him etc, 2nd degree usually means heat of the moment like shooting an intruder, he heavily planned this

Iiuc the charges that were dropped

Murder 1, terrorism
Murder 2, terrorism

Left standing

Murder 1*
Murder 2

JMO

* ETA no 1st degree murder, for it doesn't fall under any of the conditions for that charge in that state

 

[FoxxTraxx]

Hordes of Luigi Mangione fans elated as judge dismisses terrorism charges​

https://twitter.com/x/status/1967949921434124690

He apparently has quite a few fans in attendance who overlook how dangerous he is.

 

[BrianJohnson]

Iiuc the charges that were dropped

Murder 1, terrorism
Murder 2, terrorism

Left standing

Murder 1
Murder 2

JMO

According to the Daily Mail his highest charge now is 2nd degree murder, hope they are wrong

 

[Jw192]

Iiuc the charges that were dropped

Murder 1, terrorism
Murder 2, terrorism

Left standing

Murder 1
Murder 2

JMO

Megnut the murder 1 in furtherance with terrorism has been dropped completely, as has murder 2 in furtherance with terrorism. There's now no murder 1 and no terrorism charges.
- Murder 1 in NY is for when the victim was a police officer, peace officer, correctional employee, judge, or a criminal case witness. The murder was committed while the perpetrator was serving a life sentence. The murder was committed with torture of the victim. The murder was committed as an act of terrorism. The murder was committed during the commission or attempted commission of one of the felonies under New York's felony murder laws. Murder committed for hire (with the charge applying to both the murderer and the person who paid the murderer)

The charges that stand for Mangione are -

State-
Murder in the 2nd degree
Criminal possession of a weapon in the second degree X 2
Criminal possession of a weapon in the third degree X 4 (various weapon charges)
Criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree
Criminal possession of a forged instrument in the second degree

Federal -
Stalking X2
Murder through use of a firearm
Firearm offences

Then the Pennsylvania ones too.

Ok I really am going now ha

https://www.nycourts.gov/legacypdfs/press/pdfs/PeoplevLuigiMangione-omnidecision-091625.pdf

 

[Megnut]

According to the Daily Mail his highest charge now is 2nd degree murder, hope they are wrong

Lord. I think you're right. In the original charges, did they forego 1st degree murder in favor of the murder/terrorism charges? And with that dismissed, obtained Murder 2 remains?

It was premeditated, depraved -- how is that NOT Murder 1????****** Unless they stacked the charge with terrorism.

Can they bring up new charges against him for Murder 1?

JMO

****** ETA I understand now. In another state, it might be Murder 1, but this State limits Murder 1 to certain situations, of which this crime doesn't apply.

Luigi Mangione hearing: Judge tosses 2 murder charges as act of terrorism

Luigi Mangione, the accused killer of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson, returned to a Manhattan courtroom on Tuesday for the first time in five months.

abcnews.go.com

 

[JDG]

https://www.cnn.com/2025/09/16/us/luigi-mangione-ny-court-hearing

This article clears up the charges dropped and the charges still in effect.

He is still looking at the Federal charges and death penalty.

 

[stanerd]

According to the Daily Mail his highest charge now is 2nd degree murder, hope they are wrong

NY is different from other states. 1st degree murder has specific requirements such as terrorism, murder during a robbery, murder of a police officer, or torture. The guy who killed John Lennon was convicted of 2nd degree murder in NY and has been in prison for decades even though he's eligible for parole.

EDIT: I see Jw192 explained this already. Thanks!

 

[Arkay]

NY is different from other states. 1st degree murder has specific requirements such as terrorism, murder during a robbery, murder of a police officer, or torture. The guy who killed John Lennon was convicted of 2nd degree murder in NY and has been in prison for decades even though he's eligible for parole.

EDIT: I see Jw192 explained this already. Thanks!

I’m in NY State and I understand these are the technicalities for terrorism charges, but I don’t have to like it.

I hope they smash him with every applicable charge still possible under our very liberal NYS laws.

JMO

 

[Arkay]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed due to link to quoted material>

IMO he certainly did “cause wide intimidation of a population.” That would be the CEOs and other important figures in any industry, when someone out there is carrying some degree of a grudge. We read that many of them felt it vital to increase their personal security after that.

It could also be anyone working in health care, not just the CEO, if someone blames a pencil pusher for denying a claim.

Look at the guy who killed people on the way to kill Roger Goodell, because he blamed Goodell for injuries he sustained playing amateur football.

IMO also, Luigi did indeed write a manifesto. LM laid out his reasons for why he decided Brian must be killed. It’s a much shorter version of Ted Kaczynski and all those who write about why they “need” to murder people who represent something to which they are opposed.

Of course I do expect his lawyers to make these claims in LM’s defense.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Just responding out loud to the ruling --

If that's not domestic terrorism, what is? It wasn't the murder of a domestic partner or crime of opportunity, wasn't a burglary give bad. He targeted a figurehead, someone he probably knew very little about as a person. Never bothered to arrange a real conversation, to learn his philosophy of business, coverage, etc. Shot a man in the back, but not just any man. Thought that's how you invite dialogue, with murder. Raising the spectre of fear for others in positions of power. Isn't that what  terrorism is?

JMO

Also admitting you're doing it for the greater good of the people, because "Who else is going to do it", definitely sends me the same message. I'm not surprised, but I am disappointed.

It's not going to matter in the long run IMO, little Luigi is going to be spending the rest of his good years in prison where he belongs. He's not a Saint and he's not a Martyr, he's a murderer plain and simple.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Why is it second degree murder and not first? he travelled into a different state to carry out murder, stalked him etc, 2nd degree usually means heat of the moment like shooting an intruder, he heavily planned this

I believe they just added the option to include 2nd degree. I agree with you, no way is it 2nd degree with that level of planning and the victim being shot dead in the back.

JMO

 

[Charlot123]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed due to link to quoted material>

IMO he certainly did “cause wide intimidation of a population.” That would be the CEOs and other important figures in any industry, when someone out there is carrying some degree of a grudge. We read that many of them felt it vital to increase their personal security after that.

It could also be anyone working in health care, not just the CEO, if someone blames a pencil pusher for denying a claim.

Look at the guy who killed people on the way to kill Roger Goodell, because he blamed Goodell for injuries he sustained playing amateur football.

IMO also, Luigi did indeed write a manifesto. LM laid out his reasons for why he decided Brian must be killed. It’s a much shorter version of Ted Kaczynski and all those who write about why they “need” to murder people who represent something to which they are opposed.

Of course I do expect his lawyers to make these claims in LM’s defense.

JMO

In this case, he planned it well and indeed, didn't cause any intimidation of the population, it seems.

It is another question how his personality would have transformed if he stayed unapprehended, and what the new "act" would have entailed.

Sadly, the murderers of Luigi type tend to evolve in a dangerous way. They can also be influenced.

 

[girlhasnoname]

According to the Daily Mail his highest charge now is 2nd degree murder, hope they are wrong

They dismissed the State 1st Degree murder charges w/act of Terrorism down to 2nd Degree.

Luigi still faces 1st degree Federal Murder charges with the DP attached.

<snipped>

While second-degree murder is technically less severe than the previous top state charges against Mangione, he still faces a potential sentence of 25 years to life in prison, if convicted. And Tuesday’s ruling did nothing to alter the federal murder case against him, for which the Justice Department plans to seek the death penalty.

A spokesperson for Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg told CNN the office respected the court’s decision “and will proceed on the remaining nine counts,” including second-degree murder.

Judge dismisses terror-related murder charges against Luigi Mangione

 

[girlhasnoname]

Lord. I think you're right. In the original charges, did they forego 1st degree murder in favor of the murder/terrorism charges? And with that dismissed, obtained Murder 2 remains?

It was premeditated, depraved -- how is that NOT Murder 1????****** Unless they stacked the charge with terrorism.

Can they bring up new charges against him for Murder 1?

JMO

****** ETA I understand now. In another state, it might be Murder 1, but this State limits Murder 1 to certain situations, of which this crime doesn't apply.

Luigi Mangione hearing: Judge tosses 2 murder charges as act of terrorism

Luigi Mangione, the accused killer of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson, returned to a Manhattan courtroom on Tuesday for the first time in five months.

abcnews.go.com

Fed charges 1st degree w/DP still in play.

 

[Betty P]

Lord. I think you're right. In the original charges, did they forego 1st degree murder in favor of the murder/terrorism charges? And with that dismissed, obtained Murder 2 remains?

It was premeditated, depraved -- how is that NOT Murder 1????****** Unless they stacked the charge with terrorism.

Can they bring up new charges against him for Murder 1?

JMO

****** ETA I understand now. In another state, it might be Murder 1, but this State limits Murder 1 to certain situations, of which this crime doesn't apply.

Luigi Mangione hearing: Judge tosses 2 murder charges as act of terrorism

Luigi Mangione, the accused killer of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson, returned to a Manhattan courtroom on Tuesday for the first time in five months.

abcnews.go.com

New York, like many states, defines 1st degree murder differently, basing it on aggravating factors. Luigi now stands charged of 2nd degree murder, which would be like 1st degree murder in other states. Bottom line is the penalty he receives. NY doesn't have the DP, but he still probably stands a chance of getting LWOP.

Murder in New York law - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

First-degree murder​

First-degree murder or aggravated murder is the most serious homicide offense in New York state. It is defined as the intentional killing of a person without justification with one of the following aggravating factors:

• The victim was a police officer, peace officer, correctional employee, judge, or a criminal case witness
• The murder was committed while the perpetrator was serving a life sentence
• The murder was committed with torture of the victim
• The murder was committed as an act of terrorism
• The murder was committed during the commission or attempted commission of one of the felonies under New York's felony murder laws.
• Murder committed for hire (with the charge applying to both the murderer and the person who paid the murderer)

Second-degree murder​

Second-degree murder is the second most serious homicide offense in New York. It is defined as when someone commits an intentional killing without a felony under New York's felony murder rule, or an unintentional killing which either exhibits a "depraved indifference to human life" or an unintentional killing caused by the commission or attempted commission of a felony under New York's felony murder rule.

Second-degree murder is punishable by 15 years to life-with-parole after 25 years, or life-without-parole if the victim was under 14

Murder in New York law - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

ETA: He is subject to getting a sentence of life, but eligible for parole after 25 years.

 

[NuttMegg]

Dbm

 

[Sundog]

A spokesperson for Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg told CNN the office respected the court’s decision “and will proceed on the remaining nine counts,” including second-degree murder.

Judge dismisses terror-related murder charges against Luigi Mangione

RSBM

The judge's opinion and ruling can be challenged through the U.S. Supreme Court. But apparently Bragg's office is accepting the ruling. Reading the ruling is interesting, there are some gray areas in the judge's interpretation. IMO.

 

[Sundog]

RSBM

The judge's opinion and ruling can be challenged through the U.S. Supreme Court. But apparently Bragg's office is accepting the ruling. Reading the ruling is interesting, there are some gray areas in the judge's interpretation. IMO.

^^^^
Too late to edit, so am replying to my own post. I meant to type the "NY Supreme Court."

 

[LadyL]

He has from Day 1. Probably similar to those of the recent CK's murderer.

It's one thing to disagree and responsibly debate political views, it's completely another to carry out an assignation on the world's stage of someone who doesn't share the same opinion. I see a lot of similarity in these cases. What a shame.

IMO

who is CK?

 

[The4TierBridge]

He has from Day 1. Probably similar to those of the recent CK's murderer.

It's one thing to disagree and responsibly debate political views, it's completely another to carry out an assignation on the world's stage of someone who doesn't share the same opinion. I see a lot of similarity in these cases. What a shame.

IMO

This killing had nothing to do with opinions though? People love him (mostly in a performative way IMO) because they hate health insurance companies (and the people who run them).