GUILTY OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #62

[IType]

We have not seen Jake's plea agreement. Kanepa is clever and thorough. It probably stipulated that if the others plea, no DP. If they decide to go to trial, then DP is back on the table. Does this sound reasonable?
JMO

No, that is not how I understand it.

My understanding is that the death penalty is removed in all four cases. See links/quotes below (BBM). It is my understanding that the death penalty no longer exists for any of the W4. If the other three plead guilty, they will have LWOP. If they decide to go to trial, then JW has to testify against them.

In exchange for removal of the death penalty in all four cases, Jake confessed, pleaded guilty to 23 charges and led investigators to the weapons and vehicles used.

link: ‘Nobody expected this:’ Why a legal expert is shocked by Jake Wagner’s plea deal

Prosecutors say the deal also includes an agreement that will allow Angela Wagner, George "Billy" Wagner, and George Wagner IV to avoid the death penalty, but that means Jake Wagner will have to testify in each of their trials.

link: Jacob Wagner: What a guilty plea means for others accused in Pike County massacre

 

[rescuemom]

I don't know how to post links from my phone but link to podcast is on page 4 of this thread, about halfway down the page. Link to Instagram of the picture is in very last post on page 7 of this thread. Sorry my phone doesn't tell me the post numbers

Thanks I found them -- Are you saying the Pru2U podcast and the Apple podcast are the same??

 

[IType]

Thanks I found them -- Are you saying the Pru2U podcast and the Apple podcast are the same??

Correct. Just for clarification, Pru2U isn't the title of a podcast. Pru2U is a poster who provider the link on page 4 of this thread to the Apple podcast.

 

[sunshineray]

If someone who listened to the podcast could direct me to the time frame when EW was speaking, I'd be very appreciative. TIA

 

[Cool Cats]

We have not seen Jake's plea agreement. Kanepa is clever and thorough. It probably stipulated that if the others plea, no DP. If they decide to go to trial, then DP is back on the table. Does this sound reasonable?
JMO

Pretty standard and straight to the point plea agreement.

Per plea agreement Jake must testify at the trials of his mom, brother and dad.

If he does this then the DP is off the table for all 4 of them.

If any of his family members take a plea instead of going to trial the DP is still off the table.

 

[CIA Team Member]

Pretty standard and straight to the point plea agreement.

Per plea agreement Jake must testify at the trials of his mom, brother and dad.

If he does this then the DP is off the table for all 4 of them.

If any of his family members take a plea instead of going to trial the DP is still off the table.

I must give you enormous amount of kudos, CC. I've been on this platform since the beginning. Rarely post, mostly ask questions/read. And I must emphasize how appreciative I am of your patience in explaining the information you know. I'd like to also emphasize some of us ask questions that may seem ridiculous, "causing trouble/chaos" but not everything is black and white; there are many gray areas. So, accept our gratitude and to a few others, and to those posters who think "how's this so hard..." "it'll never happen," ... spare us because in MY mind, you can't see the gray matter.

 

[Puzzles8]

Unless they are able to offer them significant inducements, it does seem that they don't have a lot to lose in going to trial and in maintaining their innocence. I'm not convinced that they'll all 3 take a plea deal. JMO

Not sure about the other three sticking with "guilty" or "not guilty" plea. I think with JW ready to testify, the other three are toast in terms of a trial verdict.

Instead I think they will grovel their way through the "Penalty" stage. The best for those three would be to distance and diminish their involvement in the crimes and blame the others. Throw themselves at the mercy of the court.

AW will claim she was an abused wife, George will try to diminish his involvement compared to the rest. Billy might as well go back to the 7th grade education defense.

Then there will be the Appeals........

JMO, MOO

 

[Fat Old Man]

It's not hearsay because Jake is an eyewitness. If Jake told someone his dad was there that night and that person told the police, that would be hearsay. For the most part they don't allow hearsay in a criminal trial.

Jake can verify which guns Billy and George used so the ballistics will show which person each one of them shot.

With no DP Jake is helping to just put them in regular prison.

Canepa couldn't ask Jake to help condemn and kill his own family. I can't imagine any prosecutor in their right mind wanting to put a family member into that position. "Hey, we will drop the DP on you but you have to help us send your entire family to death row."

.

Remember these are the Wagner's, Anything is possible. What other case has had this many curves and hills, and the main player pleas before the minor players do.
Hollywood, would have a hard time coming up with this case.
And we are seeing it unfold before us.

 

[everybodhi]

That depends, the legal limit on an ATV is 99 decibels (equals noise of a push mower, jackhammer, etc.) IIRC

BUT, you can modify the noise levels on any ATV to drop the dbs down. I am not sure what ones they had but since they deer hunted I would think they didn't have the super loud ones.. plus you can buy silencers for atvs.

So to give an absolute answer to you.. I can't with 100% certainty.

Electric ATV’s (and motorcycles) are silent but I doubt they had one.

 

[Betty P]

I must give you enormous amount of kudos, CC. I've been on this platform since the beginning. Rarely post, mostly ask questions/read. And I must emphasize how appreciative I am of your patience in explaining the information you know. I'd like to also emphasize some of us ask questions that may seem ridiculous, "causing trouble/chaos" but not everything is black and white; there are many gray areas. So, accept our gratitude and to a few others, and to those posters who think "how's this so hard..." "it'll never happen," ... spare us because in MY mind, you can't see the gray matter.

Would it help if we pinned an explanation of the plea agreement to the first page of each thread so we can easily reference it to those who ask?

There have been a few posters here who have explained what is known about the plea agreement multiple times. Perhaps pinning it would make things easier.

What does everyone think?

 

[Ann99]

Remember these are the Wagner's, Anything is possible. What other case has had this many curves and hills, and the main player pleas before the minor players do.
Hollywood, would have a hard time coming up with this case.
And we are seeing it unfold before us.

Right!
MO. If additional Wagner trials are held in Pike County or an adjacent/nearby southern ohio county, there is the strong possibility of jury tampering by powerful local people.
There is so much interwined crime in the area...
Theory.
One person may have
lots of money to splash around under the table for a certain verdict, and another person could be swayed by 'business' relationships to vote for a certain verdict, another could be persuaded/intimidated and have great fear in general...
There could be strong generational personal relationships that are not obvious.
So many ways a jury in Pike County area could be tampered with or persuaded to vote NG.

 

[Cool Cats]

Right!
MO. If additional Wagner trials are held in Pike County or an adjacent/nearby southern ohio county, there is the strong possibility of jury tampering by powerful local people.
There is so much interwined crime in the area...
Theory.
One person may have
lots of money to splash around under the table for a certain verdict, and another person could be swayed by 'business' relationships to vote for a certain verdict, another could be persuaded/intimidated and have great fear in general...
There could be strong generational personal relationships that are not obvious.
So many ways a jury in Pike County area could be tampered with or persuaded to vote NG.

The people in Pike County hate all the Wagners including they hate Fred, don't want to have anything to do with her. You couldn't pay/bribe any of them to vote not guilty. Wagner's have zero influence now.

 

[Antimony]

Someone mentioned an "Alford" or "Kennedy" plea. What is that?

 

[ohioexpat63]

The people in Pike County hate all the Wagners including they hate Fred, don't want to have anything to do with her. You couldn't pay/bribe any of them to vote not guilty. Wagner's have zero influence now.

I agree with this 100%. I imagine their inner circle is very limited locally. Pike County is fairly rural to begin with and I suspect many didnt know who the Rhoden's and Ws were before these senseless murders.

 

[ohioexpat63]

With Jake pleading guilty, and spilling the beans, I don't see a Johnny Cochran moment.

 

[Betty P]

Someone mentioned an "Alford" or "Kennedy" plea. What is that?

Why would any of the Wagners make an Alford Plea?
On what grounds would they make such a plea?
Why would any sane judge approve of such a plea?
Why should people who participated in the brutal murders of 8 innocent people be allowed to walk free?
Why would any member of the general public think this should be considered?

I have a lot of questions about why anyone would think the Wagners should go free after the ringleader admitted to the murders. What am I missing? Is there some redeeming quality in the 4 Wagners that makes them exempt from being held accountable for directly or indirectly murdering 8 people in cold blood?

TIA for helping me understand this point of view.

 

[ohioexpat63]

Betty P,
I've often wondered, too, how people process the same information differently. I don't know if movies, tv shows or whatever plays a role in the thought process, but in my mind, I clearly see only one outcome in this case. 4 X LWOP..
It's all over for the defendants except for the crying. JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

Why would any of the Wagners make an Alford Plea?
On what grounds would they make such a plea?
Why would any sane judge approve of such a plea?
Why should people who participated in the brutal murders of 8 innocent people be allowed to walk free?
Why would any member of the general public think this should be considered?

I have a lot of questions about why anyone would think the Wagners should go free after the ringleader admitted to the murders. What am I missing? Is there some redeeming quality in the 4 Wagners that makes them exempt from being held accountable for directly or indirectly murdering 8 people in cold blood?

TIA for helping me understand this point of view.

Alford Plea

Defendant denies guilt but admits a Jury would most likely convict him.

Defendant still gets sentenced but normally to a lesser charge and lesser sentence.

Not just the Judge but the families would never accept it. They want to hear the word guilty.

Make that Guilty with a capital G.

Redeeming qualities?

NO - As FW says - "ZERO"

 

[Ann99]

With Jake pleading guilty, and spilling the beans, I don't see a Johnny Cochran moment.

I can't resist.

If the shoe don't fit, you must acquit.

 

[Cool Cats]

I can't resist.

If the shoe don't fit, you must acquit.

Sizes 10.5 and 11 do fit.