GUILTY PLEA DEAL ACCEPTED - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #115

[Arkay]

De Sales' Dr Kathleen Ramsland is trial ballooning her plan to interview him and do a book on him, imo

I very much agree.

While we all want to know his motive, IMO this will never be forthcoming as I don’t expect him to tell the truth.

I see this plan of Dr. Ramsland’s to be mutually beneficial to only two people—- the professor and the murderer.

We’ve learned that his compulsion was to outtalk everyone in his orbit. Interviewing him will give him that opportunity to talk endlessly.

For her, she gets her name out there and perceivably profits from a book and book tours.

What use is any of it now? I know she isn’t clairvoyant, but I’ve already stated my opinion many times; in her area of expertise she did not pick up on any signals from him.

I grant that some interaction was online, I grant that De Sales is a small college, but unless she doses him with truth serum I don’t see the benefit for anyone but the doctor and the convict.

I’d much prefer for her to walk away rather than capitalize on her interactions with him, and let the world forget him.

All just my opinion.

 

[cottonweaver]

Hmm, it seems BK snowed a lot of educated adults just fine, just not his peers.

Most all of the young people who have described him- peers and neighbors and students he was awkward, rude, a bigot, lacking self awareness, disliked, avoided
He didn’t successfully date
He didn’t have a social group, friends

But Professors saw him as- bright, articulate, curious, thoughtful, intelligent, full of promise

Just maybe the young people in BKs life could see what adults could not?!
And then the facade slipped when he went to WA?

IMO

No, that's not the case at WSU.

All of the instances are in the documents which we've been looking at. There are scores of them. It wasn't just undergrads or peer students.
The link for the documents is on the previous page

 

[AngTxGal]

Criminal profiling has come under scrutiny in recent years. I think it might go the way of handwriting analysis, polygraphs, toothmarks etc. what was once thought to be the definitive way to detect a criminal or guilt does not stand up to the test of time.

I’m seeing that you could be right. And I understand that psychology is what is called a ‘soft’ science. But only recently have we been informed that the profs in the CJ program were seeing red flags, and there were issues, and many females had complained, and they were removing his funding and did not want him in their program.

What good are red flags if all of them are visible in hindsight??

Four families and two survivors don’t much care about the research and books that will be written to understand BK. They will wish he had been stopped before the brutal murders.

What is the lesson here, if any?
It seems clear that females should be encouraged to report, and that repeated reports on the same guy should result in investigation. Don’t just kick them out of school- file charges.
Isn’t stalking illegal?
Isn’t petty theft illegal?
Isn’t being a peeping Tom illegal?
Isn’t academic discrimination against a student based on their gender illegal?

All of these were crimes.
Were there any investigations into any of these in progress?

IMO

 

[AngTxGal]

I very much agree.

While we all want to know his motive, IMO this will never be forthcoming as I don’t expect him to tell the truth.

I see this plan of Dr. Ramsland’s to be mutually beneficial to only two people—- the professor and the murderer.

We’ve learned that his compulsion was to outtalk everyone in his orbit. Interviewing him will give him that opportunity to talk endlessly.

For her, she gets her name out there and perceivably profits from a book and book tours.

What use is any of it now? I know she isn’t clairvoyant, but I’ve already stated my opinion many times; in her area of expertise she did not pick up on any signals from him.

I grant that some interaction was online, I grant that De Sales is a small college, but unless she doses him with truth serum I don’t see the benefit for anyone but the doctor and the convict.

I’d much prefer for her to walk away rather than capitalize on her interactions with him, and let the world forget him.

All just my opinion.

I was supportive of Ramsland having access to study BK until I realized there were Profs at WIU who saw and collected Red Flags from students and did nothing about it except chose not to allow him to continue in their program.

I supposed I had thought criminal profiling was more on the science end of psychology, with neuroscience than it is.

What about the young women who complained that prompted their decision?
They had all the red flags on the table… did they aid these women in getting justice?

When profiling remains an academic exercise… what good is it?
The young women that came forward were in the Criminal Justice program- surely their voices had weight. It looks like 15 or so came forward?

Geesh, ya think the guy may be unfit at the least and dangerous at the most?

IMO

 

[DizzyB]

I think you’ve/ Ramsland has stated what is abundantly clear based on this situation.
I’m not talking about childhood red flags, I’m talking about weeks or months in advance of these murders.
He was sitting in class with these professors- they interacted with him and he with students for Aug, Sept, Oct and half of Nov.

When did the group of professors sit down and decide he would be dropped from funding?
What was that date? Was it prior to Nov 12?

So they did not want to be around him- but no investigation was prompted into crimes he may have already committed?

He was literally a case study walking among them. And they agreed they did not want him to be among them, but not that he was a danger to others?… hmm

I’m not seeking to blame, I’m digesting the reality of criminal profiling- it can be completely blind to a murderer sitting right in front of you.
Only after people are dead are such profiles helpful?

IMO

I am kind of surprised that no one from WSU dropped a dime on the weird PHD candidate/TA who drove an Elantra and had issues specific to females. Also, did he “change” in some way once he moved to WA? So little background on him from people in PA, a couple of students and barely friends. We know so little about him, I expected more to come out.

Separately, I am watching a docuseries on The Yogurt Shop Murders, which occurred in 1991. Bob Ayers, Amy’s father, reminds me of SG in his relationship with the investigators of his daughter’s case. He wanted to know what they knew, and they couldn’t tell him. He is still waiting for his answers.

 

[AngTxGal]

No, that's not the case at WSU.

All of the instances are in the documents which we've been looking at. There are scores of them. It wasn't just undergrads or peer students.
The link for the documents is on the previous page

Agree, the way he presented himself changed when he arrived to WSU.

So in the six months he was there many red flags were coming up.
He was nearer to campus, had more interactions with peers and profs alike due to his TA position.

I see that, but none of those red flags to people in CJ helped Kaylee, Maddie, Xana, and Ethan

IMO

 

[AngTxGal]

I am kind of surprised that no one from WSU dropped a dime on the weird PHD candidate/TA who drove an Elantra and had issues specific to females. Also, did he “change” in some way once he moved to WA? So little background on him from people in PA, a couple of students and barely friends. We know so little about him, I expected more to come out.

Separately, I am watching a docuseries on The Yogurt Shop Murders, which occurred in 1991. Bob Ayers, Amy’s father, reminds me of SG in his relationship with the investigators of his daughter’s case. He wanted to know what they knew, and they couldn’t tell him. He is still waiting for his answers.

Yes, the Yogurt Shop Murders hits way too close to home for me.

Those poor families still cannot get anything resembling justice

IMO

 

[Tragg]

I think you’ve/ Ramsland has stated what is abundantly clear based on this situation.
I’m not talking about childhood red flags, I’m talking about weeks or months in advance of these murders.
He was sitting in class with these professors- they interacted with him and he with students for Aug, Sept, Oct and half of Nov.

When did the group of professors sit down and decide he would be dropped from funding?
What was that date? Was it prior to Nov 12?

So they did not want to be around him- but no investigation was prompted into crimes he may have already committed?

He was literally a case study walking among them. And they agreed they did not want him to be among them, but not that he was a danger to others?… hmm

I’m not seeking to blame, I’m digesting the reality of criminal profiling- it can be completely blind to a murderer sitting right in front of you.
Only after people are dead are such profiles helpful?

IMO

If you look at the CJ academic literature (or talk to a murder detective) you'll find that criminal profiling is still a non-science and that "profilers" mostly get it wrong. TV shows present it otherwise but they are fiction. Profiling is as useless after the fact as before.

Dr. Ramsland and others have demonstrated very well that NO ONE can predict the murderous violence of BK.

We are not entitled to see BK's academic records, but I suspect the information they relied on to decide BK could not continue in the program (at least as a teaching assistant) was about his lack of ability to relate to and communicate effectively with others, and the disruptive effect he had on the academic community of his peers. It would not have provided probable cause for a disciplinary inquiry, let alone a criminal investigation.

I am as desperate as you are for a means of detecting and protecting, but it just isn't there - even among CJ experts and professional pscychologists.

 

[AngTxGal]

If you look at the CJ academic literature (or talk to a murder detective) you'll find that criminal profiling is still a non-science and that "profilers" mostly get it wrong. TV shows present it otherwise but they are fiction. Profiling is as useless after the fact as before.

Dr. Ramsland and others have demonstrated very well that NO ONE can predict the murderous violence of BK.

We are not entitled to see BK's academic records, but I suspect the information they relied on to decide BK could not continue in the program (at least as a teaching assistant) was about his lack of ability to relate to and communicate effectively with others, and the disruptive effect he had on the academic community of his peers. It would not have provided probable cause for a disciplinary inquiry, let alone a criminal investigation.

I am as desperate as you are for a means of detecting and protecting, but it just isn't there - even among CJ experts and professional pscychologists.

Yes I am beginning to realize that now, and how disappointing!
Of course I see that the innocent don’t need to be profiled as if they are future killers, when they haven’t committed any crimes yet.

Are there signs that can be used as red flags- or No?

So, was there probable cause at any point to prompt an investigation?
- Maybe campus police reports filed against him by female students?
- Was he suspected of breaking into anyone’s apartment on campus? What about the female grad student who was his neighbor?

Academic study drives me nuts- the promotion of textbooks and such without tangible applicable results feels like useless mind exercises or commentary. If that is what it is- let’s just call it that.

When people want answers, info to keep young people safe, the last thing they need is academic theory and commentary.

Maybe we are left with informing young women of the dangers, how to stay safe, how to protect yourself?
And encouraging young women to file reports, speak up, say something if you see something.

The monsters don’t look like monsters and they are on our college campuses

IMO

 

[Dotta]

Re leaked video from cell.

Now,
when I think about it,
I remember deAngelo (Golden State killer) was also secretly filmed in his cell.
The video showed him jumping on furniture with agility,
while in Court he was sitting in a wheelchair with a confused face.

Maybe leaking such prison CCTV is some kind of tradition?

 

[Inthedetails]

I'm going to say IMO because I doubt I'd find the old link. But in HS he had asked a girl if she wanted to hang out with him, that he's "get a bottle". Well, the girl had a boyfriend and told him no. But when #163214 was arrested, she came forward with this.

Also, he did use weed before he began using heroin. The heroin use sounded as if it started because he wanted a different friend group.
My laptop's battery is on it's last legs and I can't copy/paste but the article is in the Independent, I googled marijuana,Casey Arntz, Kohberger.

And his friend Jack Baylis reported in the Nancy Grace video "I Am Blank" that he'd drink 3 beers, get wasted, they'd take his car keys and he'd get furious at them. He also said he'd use other "sketchy drugs." And it turns out it was Baylis' father whose coin collection and other things that were stolen by the inmate.

So he's no stranger to substance use/abuse.

Thank you for the comprehensive reply to my questions. Much appreciated! @MeadowMuffin

 

[Inthedetails]

I was supportive of Ramsland having access and studying BK until I realized there were Profs at WIUm that saw Red Flags and did nothing about it except chose not to allow him to continue in their program.

What about the young women who complained that prompted their decision?
They had all the red flags on the table… did they aid these women in getting justice?

snipped.

Same.

Sorry, Dr. Ramsland, I really am not interested in your take at this point, knowing WSU profs and students saw problems right out of the gate, and took what action they could.

I even question whether he was that bright of a student. He was intense, yes, but that's not the same as brilliant. Plus, he got off on TRICKING everyone and I think part of that trickery was fooling people (even Dr. Ramsland) that he was some sort of star student.

WSU figured it out fast.

jmopinion

 

[Warwick7]

If this is the case, that there may be dozens of stalking victims in the past…
And we just let that sit there like a known truth to be swallowed without reaction???
I find this disgusting, that some terrorized young women may not have been taken seriously.

Is this how it is? A guy can get by with just about anything- but we draw the line with murder?
If this is how we think, no wonder we have so many young women in dangerous situations.

Who are they going to tell- if no one is listening or doing anything about it?
Why would any bother to call 911? About a guy in the woods, peeping Tom, roofie at a bar, a guy too handsy at a club, stealing underwear, following you home or to your car…
We only have the reports that were made= what about all the reports that go unreported!!

Young girls seem completely unaware of the hateful twisted sick minds of such predators.
To the predators- college campuses, the bar scene, pretty much like shooting fish in a bucket

I find that infuriating
IMO

BBM
Great comment!!!!!!!
I want to add one more:
Who are they going to tell- if no one is listening or doing anything about it?

Why would any bother to call 911? About a guy in the woods, peeping Tom, roofie at a bar, a guy too handsy at a club, stealing underwear, following you home, blocking you so you can't leave a classroom, or to your car…

 

[AngTxGal]

snipped.

Same.

Sorry, Dr. Ramsland, I really am not interested in your take at this point, knowing WSU profs and students saw problems right out of the gate, and took what action they could.

I even question whether he was that bright of a student. He was intense, yes, but that's not the same as brilliant. Plus, he got off on TRICKING everyone and I think part of that trickery was fooling people (even Dr. Ramsland) that he was some sort of star student.

WSU figured it out fast.

jmopinion

Hmm, It appears there were concerns prior to the murders

Kaylee- felt she was being stalked, a figure in the wooded area/ the bushes outside the house
Did she file a report?

WIU Profs- BK humiliated female students, disliked intensely, physically overwhelming, pinned in conversation, followed a prof she asked for an escort, physical domination, shows up late to female prof classes
Believed if they continued to teach him he would become a predator to female students
Discussed how to put the brakes on his program, stop his funding

WIU student Complaints- 13 students filed complaints against him giving their names, supervising professor said he would not disengage, kept talking and followed them, felt threatening to female students, staring at female students trying to dominate and control,

News Nation- Prof Warning

Am I missing something- it sounds like he was already a predator to female students? He was impacting their mental health, making them feel unsafe, impacting their grades.

IMO

 

[Warwick7]

I very much agree.

While we all want to know his motive, IMO this will never be forthcoming as I don’t expect him to tell the truth.

I see this plan of Dr. Ramsland’s to be mutually beneficial to only two people—- the professor and the murderer.

We’ve learned that his compulsion was to outtalk everyone in his orbit. Interviewing him will give him that opportunity to talk endlessly.

For her, she gets her name out there and perceivably profits from a book and book tours.

What use is any of it now? I know she isn’t clairvoyant, but I’ve already stated my opinion many times; in her area of expertise she did not pick up on any signals from him.

I grant that some interaction was online, I grant that De Sales is a small college, but unless she doses him with truth serum I don’t see the benefit for anyone but the doctor and the convict.

I’d much prefer for her to walk away rather than capitalize on her interactions with him, and let the world forget him.

All just my opinion.

Boom!! Bam!!

 

[Dotta]

Hmm, It appears there were concerns prior to the murders

Kaylee- felt she was being stalked, a figure in the wooded area/ the bushes outside the house
Did she file a report?

WIU Profs- BK humiliated female students, disliked intensely, physically overwhelming, pinned in conversation, followed a prof she asked for an escort, physical domination, shows up late to female prof classes
Believed if they continued to teach him he would become a predator to female students
Discussed how to put the brakes on his program, stop his funding

WIU student Complaints- 13 students filed complaints against him giving their names, supervising professor said he would not disengage, kept talking and followed them, felt threatening to female students, staring at female students trying to dominate and control,

News Nation- Prof Warning

Am I missing something- it sounds like he was already a predator to female students? He was impacting their mental health, making them feel unsafe, impacting their grades.

IMO

Also,
If IRC
what about IDs of women found in a glove in a box?
Was he stalking them?

 

[Gemmie]

Also,
If IRC
what about IDs of women found in a glove in a box?
Was he stalking them?

What I want to know is... how in the world did he get those IDs? Do most young women not keep them in a wallet anymore or something?

 

[justtrish]

What I want to know is... how in the world did he get those IDs? Do most young women not keep them in a wallet anymore or something?

I'm wondering if he was breaking into homes "practicing" that part of his plan for a long time. Maybe stealing ID's. He could have gotten a rush from that knowing the person would be really inconvenienced and perhaps freaked out wondering how it went missing. IMO

 

[cottonweaver]

Don't know if anybody else has noticed that there's quite a few instance of BK lying to people at WSU - small pointless lies most of the time.

He tells an undergrad that he has a background in the military.
He tells one of the Profs he lives nearby to where the Prof parks their car. He doesn't doesn't live there
He tells several Grad students that he has no social media ( MPD found a long list of SM accounts, even though they'd been wiped)
He tells multiple people that he doesn't drink alcohol, a couple of different people see him drinking on different occasions ( as previously discussed here)
When asked about the bruising on his left hand ( the TA described it as if he'd been punching drywall in anger) he replies that he's a boxer.

Because he lies IDK if this next one is true
He tells another student that he only eats one meal a day.

 

[Dexter12]

I don't know how to post anything other than posting a reply. I was reading the ISP reports about the crime scene in the living room, I now understand what was meant by there being a hell of a battle on the second floor. I did not realize that Xana was "chased or pursued "in that room.