PLEA DEAL REACHED - 4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #110

[gremlin444]

I know people are wondering why the courtroom was so silent, not even a sob or gasp from any family/friends.

Judge Hippler made it VERY clear at the beginning (pretty much his first remark after opening the court, announcing the case #, etc.:

"First of all I appreciate everyone in attendance today for being on their best behavior. Please no outbursts or demonstrations. Any such conduct will result in immediate removal and may result in an inability to attend further court proceedings in this case."

And then he went right into expressing his frustration with SG's call to the public to flood the court with calls and emails and went to an outlining of the separation of powers in terms of his duties and the prosecutor's duties.

Seeing the mood the judge was in about that, if I were a family member on either side, I guarantee you that I would bite my lips hard the entire time I was there rather than risk an accidental gasp and end up with possibility of not being able to be there for the next hearing where sentencing and victim impact statements will happen.

As for BK, his behavior is exactly what his defense team would have instructed him about. As it is, I wouldn't have expected him to behave any differently even if he hadn't been told explicitly what was expected of him.

A plea hearing is not a place for a defendant to show remorse or act excessively meek or anything else--that would be seen as being manipulative of the judge.

 

[Seattle1]

Watts was moved to a federal facility for his safety.

Huh? I don't recall Watts ever being in federal custody. He was swapped from Colorado DOC to Wisconsin DOC in an interstate prison compact/exchange where he's been ever since.

Wisconsin DOC confirms Colorado man who killed wife, daughters at Dodge Correctional

Christopher Watts, 33, pleaded guilty to strangling his 15-week-pregnant wife, Shanann Watts, and smothering his daughters Bella, 4, and Celeste, 3.

www.fdlreporter.com

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Use of the death penalty as bargaining leverage is unethical for prosecutors IMO, and it is problematic in other related ways:

Coercion and Undue Influence:

Threatening a defendant with the death penalty, especially when the prosecution may lack the resources to secure a death sentence, can exert undue pressure on the defendant to waive their right to a trial and plead guilty, saving the prosecutor's budget.

Erosion of Constitutional Rights:

This practice can undermine a defendant's right to a fair trial and due process, forcing them to choose between facing a potentially unfair trial with the risk of death or accepting a plea deal that may not accurately reflect their guilt. "Am I risking death?" is a much different question than "Can I get a lower term in prison".

Potential for Wrongful Convictions:

The pressure to accept a plea deal can lead innocent individuals to plead guilty to avoid the risk of execution, resulting in wrongful convictions.

Ethical Concerns:

Some argue that it is inherently unethical to use the threat of death as a tool to secure a conviction, regardless of the circumstances.

Well, the Defense asked for a plea deal. And if the death penalty isn't for cold-blooded premeditated murder of 4 people. 3 of them in their beds, then what is it for? Chad Daybell is sitting on death row. It's not like the leverage the DP into a plea in every case.

 

[Wallendo]

For questions if Ethan was asleep, and whether Xana consumed her JITB meal, we learned the following from Thompson:

He said Kohberger then encountered Kernodle as she came down the stairs to pick up a Doordash order, and killed her with the same Ka-Bar knife he used on her roommates.

He then entered Kernodle's bedroom and stabbed her sleeping boyfriend Chapin to death, Thompson said.

Bryan Kohberger prosecutor BREAKS DOWN at plea deal hearing

Prosecutor Bill Thompson choked up as he laid out the timeline of the murders of four University of Idaho students in 2022 at the hearing on Wednesday.

www.dailymail.co.uk

The Daily Mail strikes again. The only way this could happen is if XK was going down the other stairwell to the first floor, implying BK was on the ground floor.

I believe BK was going down the stairs and encountered XK.

 

[Melsworld]

I may well have misunderstood, but I thought as of his next appearance for his official sentencing no more street clothes because he has admitted his guilt x5.
MOO

Definitely will be in prison-wear for the sentencing and most likely the rest of his life.

 

[Sundog]

It looks to me like he was about to lose his cold composure at that moment and she was trying to calm him with a staying hand so he wouldn't flip out and go after someone/anyone physically and do more damage, as in "there there now, you've done great so far, don't blow it now" (your facade of being cooperative).

It reminds me of a referee in a boxing ring holding back one of the boxers when it looked dicey about them losing their cool and forgetting the rules, like their blood lust might take over and they'll go nuts, cuz playing nice is uber alle (Over All in German) difficult for them.

JMO

Perhaps, but I think it was just a very human moment.

 

[NoeticSoul]

Oh I very much agree with that. He's not the special superstar killer he thinks he is, he's a ten a penny creeper that people like us read about regularly. His attempts to be like his idols he studied and watched on YouTube failed as he is just another drop in the smelly murderer pool and his name will be long forgotten.
He will however imo, hold onto the shreds of "power" he has left as that's all he has. Like I said before, we here move on. There's unfortunately always gonna be another unhinged creep who commits a horrendous act and we will follow that case hoping for justice, and the next and the next. He holds no power over us, it's the families of the victims that at present want answers that he holds in his skeletor looking head and, I hope in time they can realise that the answers he holds won't bring them any more peace. Let him fade away into the abyss he fell into and rot there all alone.

Exactly. His only "power" now is attention and holding the families in controlled and continued excruciating "not knowing the details or if he is sorry" pain space. I still hope he is eliminated quickly in prison by Karma's representatives.

side note/question ~~~ Is BK being prevented in any way from profiting from these murders, ie. writing a book/movie rights ect? I CERTIANLY HOPE THAT (prevention of any of this) IS INCLUDED IN THIS PLEA.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

It is believed the same knife was used on all 4 victims.

If on and in Maddie's wounds, you only find her blood, chances are high she was first. If in and on Kaylee's wounds/body you find Maddie's blood/DNA (Maddie's DNA in Kaylee's wounds), she's second. Etc.

So do we know that’s how they determined the order?

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Exactly. His only "power" now is attention and holding the families in controlled and continued excruciating "not knowing the details or if he is sorry pain" space. I still hope he is eliminated quickly in prison by Karma's representatives.

side note/question ~~~ Is BK being prevented in any way from profiting from these murders, ie. writing a book/movie rights ect? I CERTIANLY HOPE THAT (prevention of any of this) IS INCLUDED IN THIS PLEA.

The US Supreme Court ruled Son of Sam laws, like what you’re talking about, are unconstitutional some years ago. I’m not sure whether you could put something like that in a plea deal.

 

[seasideForest]

How does LE even know in what order the victims were killed?
BK isn’t talking, so what kind of evidence indicates he went upstairs first, then Xana, then Ethan?

Not to be graphic, but there are ways of knowing. I'm pretty sure it was mentioned today that Kaylee's and Maddie's blood (?) or DNA (?) - I think it was blood - were found on the sheath. If Ethan's and Xana's weren't, then that would indicate they were killed after BK left the sheath upstairs next to Maddie. There would be similar ways of knowing with Ethan and Xana, without going into further graphic details here. MOO

The one requirement missing from the plea deal that should be there, is his detailed confession.

The only thing with his 'detailed confession' is that he could stand there and spin a yarn, telling lie after lie. Maybe he would even wallow in it, enjoy every minute of the re-telling. Shudder.

JMO

 

[Arkay]

Probably gives him a sense of power and some horrible 'joyful' feeling withholding the information.
MOO

I wonder now if Bryan believes he won or lost today.

Potential wins:

No death penalty
Center of attention
Able to still conceal his motive despite so many wanting to know.

Potential losses:

Lack of freedom for the rest of his life.
His case will fade from the headlines as he becomes old news and is supplanted by the unfortunate future murders that will arise.
Trouble with cellmates.

A wash: I don’t think he’ll miss his family as he doesn’t seem to have the normal attachment.

Just speculating on his state of mind after today.

 

[Danaya]

I do wonder if they were concerned about the risk of a mistrial at any point, I think that would have been more likely than innocent.

But a mistrial is always a risk in any criminal case. So is the possibility of a not-guilty verdict. That’s not a valid reason to sidestep a trial — it’s part of the process. You don’t abandon due process just because the outcome isn’t guaranteed.

 

[mickey2942]

Her touching him was just icky. I don't know how she could do it without her skin crawling. Or why she did it. YUCK YUCK YUCK EWWWW

It is odd when you meet people who have done horrific things. But in some way, they seem to be so fragile and damaged. Of course, you must guard against thinking that they are like you. They are not.

I liked "Samenow" and how he always referred to the people he worked with as "The Criminal". So that no one would forget that these are indeed "Criminals". They are lizards. With no feelings. They will lie, steal, manipulate with no conscience at all.

It also reminded me of the FBI agent who wrote "ManHunter". He said that "Edmund Kemper" (serial killer), was a "nice guy". No doubt he was, who calculated coldly, every second he was interviewed by the FBI, how this would benefit him.

 

[SteveP]

I watched the plea hearing today and though my opinion doesn’t matter at all in this case, I feel that the right decision was made to accept the plea for LWOP. I read somewhere that it was going to be much harder to get a jury to agree to a death penalty conviction in the state of Idaho now that they have adopted the firing squad as the primary method of execution. I don’t know if that’s true or not. I do understand how others would feel like they want him to pay the ultimate price and I have to admit, if it were my family member, I’d probably feel that way too.

This case consumed my reading and posting on here when it first happened for months. It got to the point where it was very unhealthy for me to be involved anymore and I didn’t log on to Websleuths for over a year. I was on Websleuths almost daily from 2012 up until last year. I also skipped reading any articles about the case.

Anyways, I haven’t read this forum yet so I’m not sure what the consensus is at Websleuths and have probably made a bunch of people angry. Heck, I don’t even know if the regulars I used to talk to are even here anymore! (MassGuy, Steve P, Seattle1, OldCop, Allabouttrial just to name a few off the top of my head )

I'm still here. Good to see you again! Welcome back!

 

[NoeticSoul]

The US Supreme Court ruled Son of Sam laws, like what you’re talking about, are unconstitutional some years ago. I’m not sure whether you could put something like that in a plea deal.

Uggh, maybe @PrairieWind or @gitana1 might know if he can be prevented from doing so, and have time to peek in.

 

[Sundog]

Statement from Maddie's mom and stepdad:

Wow, powerful and amazing statement.

 

[Danaya]

It is odd when you meet people who have done horrific things. But in some way, they seem to be so fragile and damaged. Of course, you must guard against thinking that they are like you. They are not.

Respectfully snipped by me. Sociopaths and psychopaths often present as soft-spoken or calm, but that’s part of the mask. It’s not fragility—it’s manipulation. They aren’t broken. They’re calculated.

 

[Jw192]

Huh? I don't recall Watts ever being in federal custody. He was swapped from Colorado DOC to Wisconsin DOC in an interstate prison compact/exchange where he's been ever since.

Wisconsin DOC confirms Colorado man who killed wife, daughters at Dodge Correctional

Christopher Watts, 33, pleaded guilty to strangling his 15-week-pregnant wife, Shanann Watts, and smothering his daughters Bella, 4, and Celeste, 3.

www.fdlreporter.com

Watts is still in Dodge isn't he

Who thinks BK will be sent to IMSI or be moved out of Idaho all together?

 

[Boodles]

I think it’s just due to Judge Hippler’s very thorough and cautious manner. He doesn’t want anything to be overturned through some loophole.
Just as he repeated the date, the address and county for each crime, just as he inquired several times of Bryan making sure he understood all the ramifications of his plea deal.

Also thankfully that he asked in several ways if Bryan was satisfied with his defense team and its work. That is to forestall any future claims by Bryan of poor and inadequate representation.

The sentence does not allow for parole nor any leniency going forward, and four life terms running consecutively does not provide for any mitigation of his sentence. His sentence will end with his death.

JMO and what we learned in court today.

The judge was making me anxious with all that shuffling of his documents.

 

[vls12345]

I haven't yet read all the responses. I was able to watch most of the hearing but had to step away at 2pm (EST) for a meeting.

It felt tense & surreal to me. And inexorably sad. So, so, so many people adversely affected for life. And BK giving his quick, clear answers to yes/no questions like he still wants to be the teacher's pet. Courtroom LE obviously watching the spectators, I guess anticipating an outburst of some sort. That makes me sad too. The overview by BT was pretty much all stuff we knew/have discussed here on the WS community. So, thank you fellow WSers. I have learned so much about court cases through my time here.

Keeping all those affected in my heart. I'm sure they feel like crying today.