UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #7

[lee sumner]

There have been several high profile UK murder cases where the wrong men were imprisoned for decades.

All the men protested their innocence though. None of them withheld alibi information or kept changing their stories.

JC could not account for his whereabouts during the week Suzy vanished. He changed his story several times.

I think his lack of alibi is because he was in Fulham when Suzy went missing. He withheld information when questioned about Sandra Court. Lied until confronted with proof he was in the area, then clammed up.

i dont think JC killed sandra court. why send that strange letter to the detective in charge of the case. i heard SC was abducted by someone she knew. a man out drinking with her the night she was killed.

 

[lee sumner]

There have been several high profile UK murder cases where the wrong men were imprisoned for decades.

All the men protested their innocence though. None of them withheld alibi information or kept changing their stories.

JC could not account for his whereabouts during the week Suzy vanished. He changed his story several times.

I think his lack of alibi is because he was in Fulham when Suzy went missing. He withheld information when questioned about Sandra Court. Lied until confronted with proof he was in the area, then clammed up.

JC was interviewed about 2 yrs after SL went missing. DS mike barley from the lamplugh team questioned JC, and he could have been playing mind games. telling DS barley he was responsible one minute, then going into denial the next.

 

[tes1984]

not that plausible. the CPS never charged him with SL abduction, so it makes you wonder if another man did this.

It's possible that someone else did it, but we'll have to agree to disagree if you don't think JC is a plausible suspect.

 

[tes1984]

i dont think JC killed sandra court. why send that strange letter to the detective in charge of the case. i heard SC was abducted by someone she knew. a man out drinking with her the night she was killed.

It's part of his signature to make unnecessary communications after murdering. Probably a way for him to maintain his excitement post offence.

 

[Scorpiette]

I've only just come across this DM article from November 01 2018.
I didn't know about JC's (alleged) nickname whilst he was in prison for 5 years and from the people at the Hostel where he was housed.
According to the link (see below) 'Kipper' referred to the fact that he slept a lot during the day and also ate a lot of 'smelly fish'.
I'm keeping mind this is The DM, but interested none the less.
(I do find it rather a coincidence that SJL also knew SW when she worked on a cruise ship who's nickname was Kipper).

I find intriguing that JC used to turn up with flowers and champagne to impress ladies on first dates.

Didn't a witness say that they saw a couple with a bottle of champagne on the day SJL went missing?

I know none of this is hard evidence and sorry if this has all been mentioned before. I haven't looked at this case for years, so am trying to refresh myself with the case which I find so intriguing.

Mother-of-three 'targeted by Suzy Lamplugh prime suspect John Cannon'

Liz Greenfield was 20 and working as a receptionist in the same area of west London where estate agent Suzy vanished on July 28 1986 after meeting a 'Mr Kipper' (pictured) to view a flat.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Klclevi]

Hi all,
I am guessing the police are not searching the canal again due to budget constraints ? It seems utterly nuts that this cannot be done again after all this time given the high profile of this case. (I am Australian, so not sure of how things work in the UK)

Hopefully the police will do that in the next few years,surely. 2026 is the 40th year of her disappearance. If it yields nothing then it puts that to rest.

As we are all aware, the time window of her abduction and subsequent murder are key. JC or no JC , the perp would have had to have some local location in which to murder her, then conceal her before transporting her to her final location (if he did actually transport her). If it was JC , he has delighted in sending the police on goose chases for the last 30 years, when she is probably either still in Fulham somewhere or not far away (Brentford looks to be what - 6miles from Fulham? (14km on Google Maps). The name of the bridge was Gallows or something from what I have read?

We have similar cold cases here ( The Beaumont Children for eg - 3 kids who disappeared from a beach here in Aus in the 60's and never seen again- the police started another dig on a site they have had some information on in the last 3 weeks).

I truly believe time always reveals the truth, unfortunately that passage of time is so heartbreakingly long for many of the missing

I found this online summary today of JC from Radford University in the US thats been published at some point which is an easy reference timeline if anyone is interested. Not sure if it reveals anything new anyone else does not know. I havent looked into it anymore tonight (its 7pm here in Aus) - it was just a link that came up on a google search.
https://maamodt.asp.radford.edu/psyc 405/serial killers/Cannan, John.pdf

Have a good day to everyone .

 

[Markybug]

if what police assume he did is accurate what a horrible individual, a actual serial killer.

 

[Cherwell]

I didn't know about JC's (alleged) nickname whilst he was in prison for 5 years and from the people at the Hostel where he was housed.
According to the link (see below) 'Kipper' referred to the fact that he slept a lot during the day and also ate a lot of 'smelly fish'.
I'm keeping mind this is The DM, but interested none the less.

There's no reliable source for any of that. "Alleged" is right.

(I do find it rather a coincidence that SJL also knew SW when she worked on a cruise ship who's nickname was Kipper).

Indeed.

 

[WestLondoner]

The source of Cannan's nickname being Kipper is very rarely parsed, but when you delve into it, it appears the origin was GP who said she heard it from...JC.

I am quite surprised that JC told his girlfriend he has been in prison at all. Most women would want to know why and would run a mile.

He has since argued that he's only been known as Kipper since the police and others started saying he was Kipper.

Another supposed basis for the Kipper nickname was that he wore kipper ties. What? In 1986? In prison?

I don't think it's true.

 

[su5ie]

We’d all like to think we know Suzy, however, her work colleagues didn’t and maybe even her brother RL only had a small insight into her private life.
There are police detectives that can read criminals, and IMO Detective MB is one of those.
He was the only detective (to may knowledge) that realised that Shorrolds was a complete mistake. He made this assumption early on, but I can only assume wasn’t listened too by his superiors.
Again IMO he read JC like a book, and picked up on the mistakes he made in the interview.
Okay JC was inept, but sometimes even evil criminals have luck on their side. I don’t think JC was anymore careful with Suzy’s deposition than SC or SB, the only difference being he was lucky.
Look at the Melanie Hall case, the perpetrator just dumped her at the side of the motorway. A few metres further in and her remains would never have been found.
Maybe JC did just that, or given his love of water no one found her in the Brent river
section of the canal.

I respect your opinion Terry you are one of a few posters here that truly know this case inside out .JC is most likely the culprit and like you say here a body only has to be a few metres away from the search zone to lay undiscovered .

I feel another more meticulous trawl of the canal would be warranted as it has been claimed it wasn't searched in the specified spot that was pointed out to LE . I suppose it all boils down to funding and if no new lead emerges. It won't be allocated money

 

[WestLondoner]

The issue is the credibility of the sighting. Some guy remembers JC from 3 years ago? Seriously?

I actually believe the "she's under a house" line. My guess would be under the floor of a house in Fulham.

 

[su5ie]

There's no reliable source for any of that. "Alleged" is right.

Indeed.

I find this an amazing coincidence that not only did suzy succumb to a violent killer but worked alongside a notorious killer whom was also called kipper .weird indeed

 

[Scorpiette]

I find this an amazing coincidence that not only did suzy succumb to a violent killer but worked alongside a notorious killer whom was also called kipper .weird indeed

Indeed. I wonder what the mathematical probability of that happening is?

 

[su5ie]

The issue is the credibility of the sighting. Some guy remembers JC from 3 years ago? Seriously?

I actually believe the "she's under a house" line. My guess would be under the floor of a house in

From what I've learnt by reading all the threads on here and the intial feeling of investigating officers is that the possibility of Mr Kipper being a real client is slim purely on the fact that no contact details for him were in sturgis files or in suzy's work diary hence why I've long believed she met her fate at the hands of someone she had a history with either long or short term and I do feel it quite possible that she is buried under floorboards in a house in fulham.

My burning question is what was so important that it couldn't wait till after work hours . Most of us will have had pressing issues that we have felt a need to sort now issue but would it involve a lie to get out of work or would we deal with it later ? Mine would be the latter idk about others

Just out of curiosity and LE known to have Ed up before did they do ground penetrative radar in JC mothers house . I know they searched in the car pit on the property but anywhere else within its perimeter.

I think there are a few lose ends in this case that I would like to see brought to conclusion .
One is clarification on whether or not the dna in the red fiesta/sierra was definitely suzys as claimed on Wikipedia

Secondly as Terry mentioned, the canal re searched in the specified spot .

Thirdly did suzy have the particulars and keys of 37 or not and how did MG search inside and outside 37SR as he claimed to DL and quoted in AS book if he had no key .he would not have been able to see through upstairs windows and I know mail was undisturbed on floor etc but what about back entry. How would he have known if suzy was brought in this way and was tied up upstairs .he rang DL first so not as if police had told him at that stage house was empty.

Fourthly. Who's witness statements can be believed?

 

[WestLondoner]

From what I've learnt by reading all the threads on here and the intial feeling of investigating officers is that the possibility of Mr Kipper being a real client is slim purely on the fact that no contact details for him were in sturgis files or in suzy's work diary hence why I've long believed she met her fate at the hands of someone she had a history with either long or short term and I do feel it quite possible that she is buried under floorboards in a house in fulham.

My burning question is what was so important that it couldn't wait till after work hours . Most of us will have had pressing issues that we have felt a need to sort now issue but would it involve a lie to get out of work or would we deal with it later ? Mine would be the latter idk about others

Just out of curiosity and LE known to have Ed up before did they do ground penetrative radar in JC mothers house . I know they searched in the car pit on the property but anywhere else within its perimeter.

I think there are a few lose ends in this case that I would like to see brought to conclusion .
One is clarification on whether or not the dna in the red fiesta/sierra was definitely suzys as claimed on Wikipedia

Secondly as Terry mentioned, the canal re searched in the specified spot .

Thirdly did suzy have the particulars and keys of 37 or not and how did MG search inside and outside 37SR as he claimed to DL and quoted in AS book if he had no key .he would not have been able to see through upstairs windows and I know mail was undisturbed on floor etc but what about back entry. How would he have known if suzy was brought in this way and was tied up upstairs .he rang DL first so not as if police had told him at that stage house was empty.

Fourthly. Who's witness statements can be believed?

All reasonable questions.

I reckon Kipper is, as you say, someone she knew, and Sturgis did not. He was not a potential paramour because she left without a hairbrush. It was not expected to be a long errand because she left without her cigarettes.

Plod only searched under the car pit. I think all this and the stuff at the barracks is just psychopath fun. Cannan was spending the entire rest of his life locked up wearing prison underpants and eating prison food. Mugging off the police was what he did to kid himself he wasn't a total loser.

The DNA match in the Sierra was partial meaning it matched SJL but millions of others.

We don't know whether SJL took the keys but as you say, if she did, how did MG and the police get in? Nobody mentions breaking down the door and DV's observation is that it doesn't look like anyone did so.

The back gave onto some sort of mews which has a gated development in it now. In 1986, who knows. But again, if there was difficulty getting in, why does absolutely no account from the time say so?

As for witness statements, it's clear some are wrong and perhaps they all are. The biggest issue is that plod declared to the media that SJL had disappeared from 37SR before taking any statements. This made absolutely sure that nobody who might have seen her entering a house in Star Road or Sun Road, or a pub in Putney, would bother to say so, because the police said she went somewhere else.

 

[Konstantin]

We don't know whether SJL took the keys but as you say, if she did, how did MG and the police get in? Nobody mentions breaking down the door and DV's observation is that it doesn't look like anyone did so.

I am very skeptical of whether MG did get in. I reckon he turned up with SF, banged on the door, called her name, and looked through windows for a bit. AS said he looked "inside and out" but if he had gone inside, there would be no need for the police to have done so later in the day I presume. We don't know how the neighbour HR got involved, but if he heard the commotion of MG and SF banging on doors he was sitting in his front room facing the street, he might have stuck his head out the door and asked what was going on.

If MG and SF had the keys there would be no need to make any noise or call out SJL's name, you would just open the door, pop in, look around, see she wasn't there and come out. How would HR even notice?

How did HR get involved to say he had seen the smartly dressed man accompanied by a young woman? Again, if you went into the house with keys and found nothing, you would probably not knock on neighbours' doors during the day (you would think they would be out at work for a start). You'd know she wasn't there so what would be the point of asking? Why didn't they ask the other neighbour?

HR also admitted later that (1) he had made up the story about the man bundling the woman into the car. He was a very unreliable witness and (2) that his story of a door slamming could have been the other neighbour.

 

[tes1984]

i dont think JC killed sandra court. why send that strange letter to the detective in charge of the case. i heard SC was abducted by someone she knew. a man out drinking with her the night she was killed.

The police thought the letter writer was left handed. JC was left handed.

JC was also living in London (at the hostel). The police think he dumped SC's possessions as he drove back to London. Would a local killer known to SC really be cunning enough to leave a false trail, then double back?

If SC was abducted by a man she knew, then the man was a left handed strangler like JC. He also communicated post offence like JC did.

 

[tes1984]

As for witness statements, it's clear some are wrong and perhaps they all are. The biggest issue is that plod declared to the media that SJL had disappeared from 37SR before taking any statements. This made absolutely sure that nobody who might have seen her entering a house in Star Road or Sun Road, or a pub in Putney, would bother to say so, because the police said she went somewhere else.

I think the police went with what the evidence (diary entry) suggested. Who knows if they were correct? I agree with you that the initial investigation jumped the gun.

It was only a missing persons enquiry, so from that perspective the police may have felt they did a thorough job. Looking back, that obviously wasn't really the case.

 

[Cherwell]

My burning question is what was so important that it couldn't wait till after work hours . Most of us will have had pressing issues that we have felt a need to sort now issue but would it involve a lie to get out of work or would we deal with it later ? Mine would be the latter idk about others

It might have been 'Kipper' who was only free at that time.

 

[lee sumner]

The police thought the letter writer was left handed. JC was left handed.

JC was also living in London (at the hostel). The police think he dumped SC's possessions as he drove back to London. Would a local killer known to SC really be cunning enough to leave a false trail, then double back?

If SC was abducted by a man she knew, then the man was a left handed strangler like JC. He also communicated post offence like JC did.

strange SL was also left handed.