GUILTY UK - Kempsey, found in a septic tank, Jul'19, missing in 1982 - Brenda Venables *husband arrested*

[tresir2012]

I wonder if the bones still had a wedding and/or engagement ring on them?

 

[ZaZara]

He may well have expected to be dead by now. Held onto the farm house for as long as he could in his old age and then told the new owners he’d just done the cesspit when they moved in, thinking he might not be around when it was next emptied.

This is on the assumption he did it, of course.

It was said on another thread and probably in general as well that the place where a body is hidden has a special meaning for the perp, because it is a place he knows and thinks suitable. This is opposed to tossing a body on the side of the road because you just don't care, but in this case, the death itself needed to be hidden.

I did the mental exercise of findig a place to hide a body (for future use, if ever) and I could not come up with one area that wasn't somehow related to me.

One's own cesspit is therefore a big giveaway.

 

[Cherwell]

I did the mental exercise of finding a place to hide a body (for future use, if ever) and I could not come up with one area that wasn't somehow related to me.

Several years ago there was a case where a lad killed his girlfriend, and he buried her in a fresh grave in the churchyard. The grave was that of his recently-deceased uncle, but it could easily have been someone unrelated. A police spokesman was quoted as saying they had never come across anything like this before, and it did make me wonder how many murdered bodies have been concealed in this way. Like hiding a book in a library!

 

[Mind your biscuits]

It was said on another thread and probably in general as well that the place where a body is hidden has a special meaning for the perp, because it is a place he knows and thinks suitable. This is opposed to tossing a body on the side of the road because you just don't care, but in this case, the death itself needed to be hidden.

I did the mental exercise of findig a place to hide a body (for future use, if ever) and I could not come up with one area that wasn't somehow related to me.

One's own cesspit is therefore a big giveaway.

At the time of her disappearance, I believe the farm totaled about 500 acres. Also, the River is five minutes away. Plenty of places to hid a body. That the septic tank was chosen leads me to believe he didn't think about it too much, other than he didn't want to work too hard on the disposal side of things. Then of course there is the sick issue of desecrating the body every time he flushed the toilet. Evil. Moo edit

 

[Tortoise]

Mr Venables has gone to ground after being arrested on suspicion of murder on Tuesday and released under investigation yesterday.

Locals said Mrs Venables's disappearance was the talk of the village and speculated at the time her body may have been buried in a concrete tomb under the nearby M5 motorway when it was being built.

[...]

“They were searching for hours, in the garage and the garden. He’d only been here for a few years, but he brought a lot of stuff with him because the farm was a such big place.

"I don't think he will come back here anytime soon. He's got a place in Devon that he uses - I suspect he will be going there."

Septic tank 'murder' riddle villagers feared missing woman was buried under M5 - as farmer husband, 86, 'goes into hiding' after arrest

 

[tresir2012]

Mr Venables has gone to ground after being arrested on suspicion of murder on Tuesday and released under investigation yesterday.

Locals said Mrs Venables's disappearance was the talk of the village and speculated at the time her body may have been buried in a concrete tomb under the nearby M5 motorway when it was being built.

[...]

“They were searching for hours, in the garage and the garden. He’d only been here for a few years, but he brought a lot of stuff with him because the farm was a such big place.

"I don't think he will come back here anytime soon. He's got a place in Devon that he uses - I suspect he will be going there."

Septic tank 'murder' riddle villagers feared missing woman was buried under M5 - as farmer husband, 86, 'goes into hiding' after arrest

"Neighbours said they believed Venables wouldn’t return to the cul-de-sac and would instead stay at his holiday cottage in North Devon."

There's another place for the police to search then. MOO

 

[ZaZara]

At the time of her disappearance, I believe the farm totaled about 500 acres. Also, the River is five minutes away. Plenty of places to hid a body. That the septic tank was chosen leads me to believe he didn't think about it too much, other than he didn't want to work too hard on the disposal side of things. Then of course there is the sick issue of desecrating the body every time he flushed the toilet. Evil. Moo edit

This is interesting, because my thoughts go more or less in the opposite direction. IMHO he did not want her found any time soon, this would reveal the cause of death, and by hiding the body he was able to use the she left in the middle of the night in her nightie story. That is why he hides her not once but twice, first in a bag and then in the cesspit.

If he had dug a second cesspit with an overflow from the original one after two decades, no one would have thought anything of it, and the new owners would have cleaned the second pit, thinking it was the main one. In the Helen Bailey case that has been mentioend before, Helen's body was hidden in the old cesspit, and the one that was emptied was more recent.

 

[Mind your biscuits]

This is interesting, because my thoughts go more or less in the opposite direction. IMHO he did not want her found any time soon, this would reveal the cause of death, and by hiding the body he was able to use the she left in the middle of the night in her nightie story. That is why he hides her not once but twice, first in a bag and then in the cesspit.

If he had dug a second cesspit with an overflow from the original one after two decades, no one would have thought anything of it, and the new owners would have cleaned the second pit, thinking it was the main one. In the Helen Bailey case that has been mentioend before, Helen's body was hidden in the old cesspit, and the one that was emptied was more recent.

Imo he took the course of least resistance, digging a new septic tank would have required work and or workers, too much trouble / effort.

 

[tresir2012]

Imo he took the course of least resistance, digging a new septic tank would have required work and or workers, too much trouble / effort.

And in '82 it might even have been a fairly new one anyway so that would have been questioned. Still not discounting SODDI. MOO

 

[Lexiintoronto]

What would he have kept for 37 years? A weapon maybe?

I think he would have kept her wedding ring(s) and other very personal jewelry she may have regularly worn.

Or something she would have never left home without. A wallet, for example.

 

[Ginger21]

Have there been any updates? I couldn't find any new articles on google but I wondered if anyone here was local ect.

 

[Bethan]

And in '82 it might even have been a fairly new one anyway so that would have been questioned. Still not discounting SODDI. MOO

Had he installed a new septic tank, a little time prior to putting the farmhouse up for sale, some 30 years after his wife’s disappearance, I doubt anyone would have questioned it.

I think sufficient time would have passed since his wife’s disappearance, for it to pass without suspicion.

[ Edited to add....except there may have been great suspicion locally that he had indeed ‘knocked off’ his wife.]

As a farmer, assuming he’d been fit enough, he could have done most of the work himself. Farmers have the machinery for digging etc. He could have concreted over the old tank & virtually hidden it from view. Many old rural properties around here have old defunked septic tanks.

However this would have cost money & farmers are notoriously ‘tight’ as they are ‘cash poor’ all assets being tied up in the farm.

I also doubt his wife’s wedding ring would have remained on her finger after her death, for the same reason!

( For those not familiar with septic tanks, some can be a problem. Ours installed in a new build in 1990 had to have major ‘remedial’ work done on it....digging down & replacing outflow pipes over the next 22 years.

The new owners completely replaced the system when they moved in 7 years ago. Fortunately my ‘missing’ husband was not in there, but in South of France with his girlfriend!)

[ Edited to also add......a pig farmer local to me, did in fact murder his wife, some 30 years ago & fed her to his pigs! I have only just learned of this. He’s now served his jail sentence & is back living on the farm apparently.

And I thought this method of disposal was the stuff of ‘urban legend’ but this is a true story!!!!!

However I have not been able to find any news reports to link, to back this up.]

 

[tresir2012]

Had he installed a new septic tank, a little time prior to putting the farmhouse up for sale, some 30 years after his wife’s disappearance, I doubt anyone would have questioned it.

I think sufficient time would have passed since his wife’s disappearance, for it to pass without suspicion.

[ Edited to add....except there may have been great suspicion locally that he had indeed ‘knocked off’ his wife.]

As a farmer, assuming he’d been fit enough, he could have done most of the work himself. Farmers have the machinery for digging etc. He could have concreted over the old tank & virtually hidden it from view. Many old rural properties around here have old defunked septic tanks.

However this would have cost money & farmers are notoriously ‘tight’ as they are ‘cash poor’ all assets being tied up in the farm.

I also doubt his wife’s wedding ring would have remained on her finger after her death, for the same reason!

( For those not familiar with septic tanks, some can be a problem. Ours installed in a new build in 1990 had to have major ‘remedial’ work done on it....digging down & replacing outflow pipes over the next 22 years.

The new owners completely replaced the system when they moved in 7 years ago. Fortunately my ‘missing’ husband was not in there, but in South of France with his girlfriend!)

[ Edited to also add......a pig farmer local to me, did in fact murder his wife, some 30 years ago & fed her to his pigs! I have only just learned of this. He’s now served his jail sentence & is back living on the farm apparently.

And I thought this method of disposal was the stuff of ‘urban legend’ but this is a true story!!!!!

However I have not been able to find any news reports to link, to back this up.]

Agree that a tight (or otherwise) farmer spending money to replace a septic tank prior to selling, who had a missing wife, would have got tongues wagging regardless LOL.

What area of the country was the case you mentioned? I may remember it. I remember the famous Mrs McKay case, where the victim was never found and thought to have been fed to the pigs. (Hertfordshire)

Murder of Muriel McKay - Wikipedia

 

[Bethan]

Agree that a tight (or otherwise) farmer spending money to replace a septic tank prior to selling, who had a missing wife, would have got tongues wagging regardless LOL.

What area of the country was the case you mentioned? I may remember it. I remember the famous Mrs McKay case, where the victim was never found and thought to have been fed to the pigs. (Hertfordshire)

Murder of Muriel McKay - Wikipedia

The farm is about 1 mile West of Leeming Bar, North Yorkshire.

I’ve lived in this area 7 years & only heard of it a few weeks ago. Every local person old enough, remembers the case & could give me details ( though I googled the name, but could find nothing)

Apparently, what the pigs didn’t devour, he buried at a site on the farmland where a bomber plane had crash landed in WW2, to confuse the investigation if sniffer dogs were used.

I’d have liked to read reports on the investigation, can’t find anything...it was about 30 years ago. Many locals I’ve questioned are adamant it is true...they knew the family.

 

[Cherwell]

Here's another.
Guilty of murder - the man who police believe may have fed his wife to pigs

 

[CoverMeCagney]

The farm is about 1 mile West of Leeming Bar, North Yorkshire.

I’ve lived in this area 7 years & only heard of it a few weeks ago. Every local person old enough, remembers the case & could give me details ( though I googled the name, but could find nothing)

Apparently, what the pigs didn’t devour, he buried at a site on the farmland where a bomber plane had crash landed in WW2, to confuse the investigation if sniffer dogs were used.

I’d have liked to read reports on the investigation, can’t find anything...it was about 30 years ago. Many locals I’ve questioned are adamant it is true...they knew the family.

This was very local to me and yes it's true. I remember it quite well, though the details are hazy and, like you say, there is nothing online. It was 1985/6. The story (his story) was that he'd hit or pushed her during an argument and she fell and smashed her head on the fireplace and died, and he panicked. Led the police on a merry dance by leaving her car at the train station to make it look like she'd gone somewhere. I'd love to see it if you manage to find anything in news archives - I bet Northallerton library will have something if you ever get chance to check! RIP Evelyn (I can remember her first name but what was his? EDIT - Gordon)

EDIT again, having remembered his first name I found this blog by a relative - scroll down to the bottom
The diaries of Paul K Lyons - Feb1986

 

[Officer Dibble]

Then of course there is the sick issue of desecrating the body every time he flushed the toilet. Evil. Moo edit

That did make me laugh. I shouldn't laugh, but...

 

[Officer Dibble]

This was very local to me and yes it's true. I remember it quite well, though the details are hazy and, like you say, there is nothing online. It was 1985/6. The story (his story) was that he'd hit or pushed her during an argument and she fell and smashed her head on the fireplace and died, and he panicked. Led the police on a merry dance by leaving her car at the train station to make it look like she'd gone somewhere. I'd love to see it if you manage to find anything in news archives - I bet Northallerton library will have something if you ever get chance to check! RIP Evelyn (I can remember her first name but what was his? EDIT - Gordon)

EDIT again, having remembered his first name I found this blog by a relative - scroll down to the bottom
The diaries of Paul K Lyons - Feb1986

Blimey what a read

 

[Bethan]

This was very local to me and yes it's true. I remember it quite well, though the details are hazy and, like you say, there is nothing online. It was 1985/6. The story (his story) was that he'd hit or pushed her during an argument and she fell and smashed her head on the fireplace and died, and he panicked. Led the police on a merry dance by leaving her car at the train station to make it look like she'd gone somewhere. I'd love to see it if you manage to find anything in news archives - I bet Northallerton library will have something if you ever get chance to check! RIP Evelyn (I can remember her first name but what was his? EDIT - Gordon)

EDIT again, having remembered his first name I found this blog by a relative - scroll down to the bottom
The diaries of Paul K Lyons - Feb1986

Thanks CMC for the information & link to Paul K Lyons account. No mention of pigs though!

Perhaps that bit, after all, is an embellishment! The crime did of course take place on a pig farm.

I would like to check the news archives & will try the library when time allows & report back to you here. Cheers!

 

[Alyce]

Another little snippet

Gordon Ake (Jail)
Age: 53 (56 after sentence)
Sex: male
Crime: manslaughter
Date Of Sentence: 17 Dec 1985 (for 3 years)
End Of Full Sentence: 17 Dec 1988
Place: unknown
Source: www.thetimes.co.uk
Gordon Ake was convicted of the manslaughter of his wife.
He was a turkey farmer who killed his wife and burnt her body in a fire and pretended that she had left him.
The police later discovered her foot and denture plate in some ashes.


Gordon Ake - manslaughter - 1985 - manslaughter unknown