4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #80

[Warwick7]

My speculation but....

I wonder how many times BK has "stood silent" watching girls/women sleep.

I suspect he started in his own home.

And sought to master it into adulthood.

Reinforcing his fantasy of supreme power.

JMO

MOO but this sounds very reasonable.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

The gag order isn’t benefiting anyone in my opinion. Absence of sourced, factual information leads to speculation. Professional news media has shared ethical standards; Susie Social or Johnny Journo does not; and are largely unaware, IMO, of the harm they are causing or could be causing.

Lifting the gag order would let those in the know provide factual information or at least confirm or deny some of the information out there in cyber space.

Right now, professional reporters are at a disadvantage. Webcasters and YouTubers can speculate all they want; professionals won’t do this, and thus, are at a disadvantage. JMO

I'm dying to know what's in those warrants and what's with all the financial and DD stuff. I can't wait to find out if there was another footprint or if they ever found the Vans from the PCA. I'd love to know what BF saw.

But I keep going back to the fact that Dateline is a national show hosted by a deeply respected professional. I don't think it was the least bit responsible for them to link BK to a crime that happened before he was even in WA without a single shred of evidence. IMO, lifting the gag order won't prevent things like this; it'll make it worse. If the gag order is lifted, law enforcement officials aren't suddenly going to hold press conferences. They'll just anonymously leak information since even if they're found out, they won't get into legal trouble.

IMO, the gag order is necessary, probably more so than in any other case in my recent memory. The MSM is out of control.

MOO.

 

[Cindizzi]

[…]
The refusal to enter a plea at this point is unlikely to have a significant impact on the case, said Eve Brensike Primus, a law professor at the University of Michigan and an expert in criminal procedure.
Ms. Primus said that lawyers may recommend that course when they expect to argue that their client is not competent to stand trial or is not guilty by reason of insanity.
Idaho is one of four states that do not provide explicitly for insanity pleas, but defendants in the state can introduce testimony at trial to show that, as a result of mental illness, they are not guilty of certain elements of a crime, like the “malice aforethought” that must be proved in order for a jury to convict a defendant of murder.
Another possible explanation, Ms. Primus said, is that Mr. Kohberger did not want to tell the court he was not guilty. In that situation, his lawyer might decide on standing silent, allowing Mr. Kohberger to avoid pleading out loud, while still moving the case forward as if he had pleaded not guilty.
“Practically, there is no difference in effect,” Ms. Primus said. “But if there are mental health issues, there might be reasons why you might not want your client to speak in court.”
[…]

Idaho Murder Suspect Declines to Enter Plea (Published 2023)

Bryan Kohberger, the former Ph.D. student accused of killing four University of Idaho students, appeared in court Monday after being indicted on murder charges.

www.nytimes.com

 

[U.N. Known]

Jail, without a conviction, is way better than prison with a Death Penalty. Jail, he can have a lot more flexibility with visits, what he does, a conviction, that is it. So, why not manipulate the system as long as possible to obfuscate the process.

What visits? He has an iPad. He is in jail thousands of miles away from family and anyone else he's known throughout his life. Perhaps I just don't see AT playing along with gaming the system regardless of what her clients may suggest.

 

[schooling]

Everything I've read on social media today makes me really fear the path our legal system is going down. It used to be, people could exercise their Constitutional rights and it was actually expected, whether they were guilty or not. Now, anything short of BK opening his arms wide and saying "I'm guilty, I want to die" in open court will be criticized. The guy's trial hasn't even started yet and he gets intense hate for not entering a plea. Had he pleaded guilty or not guilty, he'd also get hate, IMO. There's nothing he could do at this point. He's been tried and convicted by social media.

I don't know, but I really hope no one I care about is ever arrested for anything because it seems indictment = loss of all rights in the court of public opinion. It's really sad to see.

If the gag order is lifted, I'm not sure he could get a fair trial in this country, let alone in Idaho.

MOO.

The internet is something the founders could have never imagined.

My fear is that once the generative models like ChatGPT get unlimited access to real time information and the bias contained within... it's going to practically impossible to have a fair trial...period. Avenues to appeals will be opened up to any and all inmates (this is mostly good) based off the smallest of forgotten about technicalities even for the truly guilty (this is not good). The courts are going to be flooded, overwhelmed, inefficient.

Excuse my French but this is as good as it's going to get for high profile cases, from here on out it's a show.

 

[Cool Cats]

As before, I wouldn't be surprised if this was a strategic move. But I'm still unclear on what strategic aim it would serve.

Can you explain why BK not voicing a plea would give the defense more time?

Thanks!

It won't give the defense more time. Prosecutor has 60 days to file for DP, that doesn't change.

Judge entered his plea as not guilty, stays this way unless Bryan changes it.

If defense wants more time Bryan can always exercise his option to waive speedy trial.

2 Cents

 

[Vaderman]

After waxing on about my fondness for the brand of knives my grandfather once gifted me and the collection I've built up ever since, I ordered one of that brand from Amazon that is similar in the one possibly connected to these murders (no worries--I just want to use it to dig into some campfire steak and do some whittling with my grandpa!)

One thing I immediately noticed -- the leather sheath clasp was incredibly stiff. It's been well over a day and I'm still struggling to get the clasp to stretch out to easily manipulate it. I can easily see, if the murder weapon is similar to my newest collectible, that it would be darn near impossible to remove DNA, even knowing this bit of info.

 

[Deleted member 718]

Chanley Painter of Court TV said when he looked briefly at the galley, he locked eyes with her. She said it was very unsettling. She’s been reporting on this case from beginning. She is very striking. Think he knew who she was? He also locked eyes with the woman next to her.

Just what I heard on court tv …. IMO

Here's her tweet:
https://twitter.com/ChanleyCourtTV
@ChanleyCourtTV
·8h
Kohberger gave a very quick glance to the gallery before looking down and taking a quick seat

 

[maconrich]

Gotta say, I predicted this...as a way to stall the inevitable, "unable to work with counsel". BK has nothing but time now, so stalling is the new game. I will say, there is no way there will be a trial in October. BK will want new counsel, they get time, on and on..

The link / source for your quote please?

 

[10ofRods]

INAL but I just did a quick bit of research on Alford plea. So many questions now.

Can anyone enlighten on some of these?

I take it the Court/judge has to evaluate the evidence at the time plea is made and rule that it would have resulted in conviction.

If Court/judge is not satisfied (at the time) that the evidence would have resulted in a conviction, does judge reject the plea and send the
the defendant on to trial?

When is the latest that the defendant can enter an Alford plea before trial?

If the defendant does not enter an Alford plea or otherwise plead guilty via plea bargain before trial, can he go to trial whilst still standing silent? Or does he have to plead NG (break silence) before trial can commence? Can he go to trial on the basis of judge's entry oF NG? (pardon my ignorance on these details).

Can defendant suddenly go for an Alford plea in the middle of trial or is that a legal impossibility because he has to actually speak a plea of NG before trial can commence?

Does the prosecution have to agree to an Alford plea like a plea bargain?

IANAL either, but I read some Alford plea cases. I think it's the Judge's call. The prosecution should stipulate, in any case, that they have enough evidence to take the case to trial and win.

So, it's unlikely the prosecution will say otherwise.

Judge is supposed to agree, because many Alford pleas are appealed at some point (usually over sentencing). Not sure about the rest (and not sure of how Alford works, either).

IMO.

 

[BUF]

Maybe they don't think he's innocent, or maybe they can't afford to travel to these few minute hearing, or maybe they emotionally cannot handle the media or anything else about this case.

I'm not questioning the parents for any decisions they may make in this case.

MOO

Agree. During ABC Nightly News tonight it was reported that BK’s parents were watching the arraignment on video feed.

 

[10ofRods]

I fail at legalese but it seems Ms Taylor would like to read the proceedings. I thought she would already have access to this.

I keep reading that in Idaho, Defense is supposed to get a transcript (but transcripts can take a week or 10 days, where I live - maybe longer elsewhere?)

If she hasn't seen it, I wonder at the wisdom of having it be public, myself.

IMO.

 

[Boxer]

[…]
The refusal to enter a plea at this point is unlikely to have a significant impact on the case, said Eve Brensike Primus, a law professor at the University of Michigan and an expert in criminal procedure.
Ms. Primus said that lawyers may recommend that course when they expect to argue that their client is not competent to stand trial or is not guilty by reason of insanity.
Idaho is one of four states that do not provide explicitly for insanity pleas, but defendants in the state can introduce testimony at trial to show that, as a result of mental illness, they are not guilty of certain elements of a crime, like the “malice aforethought” that must be proved in order for a jury to convict a defendant of murder.
Another possible explanation, Ms. Primus said, is that Mr. Kohberger did not want to tell the court he was not guilty. In that situation, his lawyer might decide on standing silent, allowing Mr. Kohberger to avoid pleading out loud, while still moving the case forward as if he had pleaded not guilty.
“Practically, there is no difference in effect,” Ms. Primus said. “But if there are mental health issues, there might be reasons why you might not want your client to speak in court.”
[…]

Idaho Murder Suspect Declines to Enter Plea (Published 2023)

Bryan Kohberger, the former Ph.D. student accused of killing four University of Idaho students, appeared in court Monday after being indicted on murder charges.

www.nytimes.com

MOO IMO if guilty, he feared and did not want to risk faltering while physically verbalizing (a lie) in the public spotlight.

Interesting that he originally said he would be "exonerated," and not the more direct statement that he didn't do it, is innocent.
Exhonorated MOO can mean "justified."

 

[Erutan]

Chanley Painter of Court TV said when he looked briefly at the galley, he locked eyes with her. She said it was very unsettling. She’s been reporting on this case from beginning. She is very striking. Think he knew who she was? He also locked eyes with the woman next to her.

Just what I heard on court tv …. IMO

Creepy in the extreme, maybe they can just refuse to look at him ?
It's not as if he can get up and move.

 

[IDK]

Chanley Painter of Court TV said when he looked briefly at the galley, he locked eyes with her. She said it was very unsettling. She’s been reporting on this case from beginning. She is very striking. Think he knew who she was? He also locked eyes with the woman next to her.

Just what I heard on court tv …. IMO

I’m a little lost here. It takes two separate individuals to lock eyes doesn’t it? So was she looking into his eyes when he locked eyes with her? Maybe I’m over analyzing, but I can choose who I want to make eye contact with. Maybe he saw her staring at him and he was trying to figure out who she is? IDK, IMO.

 

[Warwick7]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1660812789974466560

 

[U.N. Known]

The gag order isn’t benefiting anyone in my opinion. Absence of sourced, factual information leads to speculation. Professional news media has shared ethical standards; Susie Social or Johnny Journo does not; and are largely unaware, IMO, of the harm they are causing or could be causing.

Lifting the gag order would let those in the know provide factual information or at least confirm or deny some of the information out there in cyber space.

Right now, professional reporters are at a disadvantage. Webcasters and YouTubers can speculate all they want; professionals won’t do this, and thus, are at a disadvantage. JMO

Unfortunately, the lines between true journalists and infotainers continue to blur. It's become difficult to find even an MSM article or report without some infusion of opinion or worse speculation. I paused this post to see what a few generally respected MSM sources said about today's hearings. The reporter in the news piece wasn't bad and added only a little opinion. The article I read incorrectly quoted the publicly available PCA and clearly wanted to move the sympathy meter.

Neither instance was excessive, but IMO, if I cannot trust them to quote posted court documents correctly and without adding their opinions, the gag order should remain in place.

You mentioned journalists, but I'll add victim attorneys to the list.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

I'm dying to know what's in those warrants and what's with all the financial and DD stuff. I can't wait to find out if there was another footprint or if they ever found the Vans from the PCA. I'd love to know what BF saw.

But I keep going back to the fact that Dateline is a national show hosted by a deeply respected professional. I don't think it was the least bit responsible for them to link BK to a crime that happened before he was even in WA without a single shred of evidence. IMO, lifting the gag order won't prevent things like this; it'll make it worse. If the gag order is lifted, law enforcement officials aren't suddenly going to hold press conferences. They'll just anonymously leak information since even if they're found out, they won't get into legal trouble.

IMO, the gag order is necessary, probably more so than in any other case in my recent memory. The MSM is out of control.

MOO.

I give you OJ Simpson and Casey Anthony. But my memory is probably a lot longer than yours, lol.
Edited to add: but not as current or sharp!!

 

[Warwick7]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1660813458210979840

 

[Luna20]

[…]
The refusal to enter a plea at this point is unlikely to have a significant impact on the case, said Eve Brensike Primus, a law professor at the University of Michigan and an expert in criminal procedure.
Ms. Primus said that lawyers may recommend that course when they expect to argue that their client is not competent to stand trial or is not guilty by reason of insanity.
Idaho is one of four states that do not provide explicitly for insanity pleas, but defendants in the state can introduce testimony at trial to show that, as a result of mental illness, they are not guilty of certain elements of a crime, like the “malice aforethought” that must be proved in order for a jury to convict a defendant of murder.
Another possible explanation, Ms. Primus said, is that Mr. Kohberger did not want to tell the court he was not guilty. In that situation, his lawyer might decide on standing silent, allowing Mr. Kohberger to avoid pleading out loud, while still moving the case forward as if he had pleaded not guilty.
“Practically, there is no difference in effect,” Ms. Primus said. “But if there are mental health issues, there might be reasons why you might not want your client to speak in court.”
[…]

Idaho Murder Suspect Declines to Enter Plea (Published 2023)

Bryan Kohberger, the former Ph.D. student accused of killing four University of Idaho students, appeared in court Monday after being indicted on murder charges.

www.nytimes.com

I think it may be a control vice for him and wouldn’t be surprised if he suggested it. The multitudes were tuned in today to see what he was going to say. In my opinion he enjoyed being evasive.