4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #104

[mickey2942]

As an advocate for people with disabilities, it is abhorrent to me, when society sticks a label on a murderer, that he/she is "Autistic".

People can be weird, anti social, have poor social and communication skills without being ASD. And people who do have ASD are not all weird, antisocial, with poor social and communication skills.

End of Ted Talk.

 

[jepop]

"Whatever happened in that house"

Is there anyone besides AT who refers to the slaughter of four defenseless victims as "whatever happened"?

Yeah, that part was really off, imo. For me it was the way AT kept repeating "that house". The tone, the way she kept saying the word "that", made it sound like the house was a dirty word or that there was something inherently wrong with the house. Hard to articulate, but AJ or Thompson and even Massoth for example would just say in a normal, neutral tone "the house " when needing to refer to it. Jmo

 

[Baby baby Jane]

Let me guess.

AT's expert met with BK for 10 minutes of which he tried to manipulate 11 --

Then diagnosed him retroactively based on anecdotal information from his childhood (AT claims he was misdiagnosed as a child -- apparently "should have been" diagnosed with ASD (which wasn't even a label then) but even so, I'm curious to know if WAS diagnosed as a child or later maybe-- as suggested upthread -- oppositional defiance disorder or any number of personality disorders.

IMO AT does NOT want the State to test BK and has shielded her expert from any real assessment of BK (so he doesn't "pass" which would destroy her strategy) and leaves her and the expert speaking about generalities of ASD, where by definition there's a whole spectrum of behaviors, functionabilities, etc.

JMO

Splitting hairs with “ASD” didn’t exist when he was a child…… the official diagnostic manual DSM, gets updated & re-published over time.
In 2013, they combined some diagnoses under a “new” wider category called ASD to FD ilitate diagnosing. “autism disorder” existed when he was a child and still does….

She’s gonna flounder all around Autism, it’s only thing she’s got to work with but it isn’t going to alibi, explain, excuse, exonerate MURDER. IMO, he’s got some other diagnosis with ASD-like behaviors. AT happy to say ASD, but can’t introduce the other diagnoses.

History of Autism diagnoses

Human

www.human.health

 

[DizzyB]

I admit to wondering if BK was on the spectrum from the first time I saw him. When people started describing their interactions with him in the past, it made even more sense.

Is ASD supposed to be a catch-all excuse? BK may not understand social cues, and have ASD associated issues. None of those issues make him unable to know right from wrong, make him think that crime, much less murder, is appropriate in any case. He was able to complete his education all the way to the pursuit of a PhD. He functioned in society. His course of study was criminology!

AT is asking the Judge to throw out all case law and come up with some new ground breaking opinion, like he is trailblazing the rights of the disabled. I wonder how long before we get his rulings. I’m sure he has a lot of research to do-his decisions will be backed up by the law.

 

[SteveP]

Yeah, that part was really off, imo. For me it was the way AT kept repeating "that house". The tone, the way she kept saying the word "that", made it sound like the house was a dirty word or that there was something inherently wrong with the house. Hard to articulate, but AJ or Thompson and even Massoth for example would just say in a normal, neutral tone "the house " when needing to refer to it. Jmo

I can envision AT, at trial, trying to paint the house as THAT house. THAT house, with a reputation, the one that almost everybody had traipsed through and partied in. THAT house, that any number of people knew or knew of the occupants. THAT house, that someone may have been asked to leave if they became too disruptive. THAT house, that almost anyone could have developed a grudge against one of the girls who lived there. THAT house, that LE had been called to on more than one occasion. THAT house, that almost invited trouble...

Poor innocent BK, whose DNA just happened to end up on a knife sheath, in a bed, under a butchered victim, in a house with three other butchered victims, in THAT house. JMO

 

[Baby baby Jane]

Antisocial Personality Disorder vs ASD

Sociopathy (ASPD) vs. Autism: The Key Differences | Elemy

Sociopathy is a disorder that may include the emotional challenges and limitations of autism. Learn more about these two different conditions.

elemy.wpengine.com

 

[pseudo_hum]

Somewhere, Judge Judge is smiling.

 

[MeadowMuffin]

@wendy44 and the many others:

Thank you for providing all this info for those of us who cannot catch up.

I’m wondering if I can marry Judge Hippler even if he already has a wife???
I just adore him!

AT had a much simpler time with Judge Judge. Wonder if she regrets her push for a change of venue.

 

[jepop]

I can envision AT, at trial, trying to paint the house as THAT house. THAT house, with a reputation, the one that almost everybody had traipsed through and partied in. THAT house that any number of people knew or knew of the occupants. THAT house that someone may have been asked to leave if they became too disruptive. THAT house than almost anyone could have developed a grudge against one of the girls who lived there. THAT house that LE had been called to on more than one occasion. THAT house that almost invited trouble...

Poor innocent BK, whose DNA just happened to end up on a knife sheath, in a bed, under a butchered victim, in house with three other butchered victim, in THAT house. JMO

Right, that's what she was communicating with her tone. This makes sense and explains why listening to her express this attitude through a disdainful, almost disgusted tone feels so off.

The result is a subtle discrediting of the surviving roommates and even the dead victims. A judgement. In this hearing then it's a message to the public, an attempt to stir up any unfounded prejudice and bias present in the potential jury pool. Jmo

 

[Miss Poovy]

As an advocate for people with disabilities, it is abhorrent to me, when society sticks a label on a murderer, that he/she is "Autistic".

People can be weird, anti social, have poor social and communication skills without being ASD. And people who do have ASD are not all weird, antisocial, with poor social and communication skills.

End of Ted Talk.

I’ve known lots of people who are labeled weird, socially awkward, etc & they didn’t murder folks they didn’t have a relationship with. I guess the judge has to entertain all the stuff/motions put before him.

 

[Miss Poovy]

Splitting hairs with “ASD” didn’t exist when he was a child…… the official diagnostic manual DSM, gets updated & re-published over time.
In 2013, they combined some diagnoses under a “new” wider category called ASD to FD ilitate diagnosing. “autism disorder” existed when he was a child and still does….

She’s gonna flounder all around Autism, it’s only thing she’s got to work with but it isn’t going to alibi, explain, excuse, exonerate MURDER. IMO, he’s got some other diagnosis with ASD-like behaviors. AT happy to say ASD, but can’t introduce the other diagnoses.

History of Autism diagnoses

Human

www.human.health

I had to listen to my nephew’s advanced psychology courses during COVID. The way his professor explained ASD, there is a wide spectrum of traits & challenges. I can’t count the number of times he used the word “spectrum” or “on the spectrum”. I would find it unbelievable that BK cannot be held responsible for killing four people because of an ASD diagnosis. She’s really grasping IMO, but I guess that’s her responsibility.

 

[MeadowMuffin]

Kohberger’s Idaho defense attacks ‘prejudicial’ evidence in all-day hearing

Article from the Idaho Statesman covering yesterday's hearing.

One thing that was new to me was seeing a redacted copy of his citation for not wearing a seatbelt. Only redacted portions were his identifying information.

I am anxiously awaiting to see this video in court, but I'm pretty sure Judge Hippler will order the juicy parts where BK is saying how he thinks seat belts don't provide safety and questions why his phone number is needed will be redacted.

 

[jepop]

I must say, the brunette in the back on AT’s team always has this unmoving, creepy smile every single hearing. She just smiles. The whole time.

Yeah, I noticed that in January hearing. It stood out and seemed discordant and a very unprofessional demeanour. But I put it down to an isolated instance of inappropriate affect.

The smiling didn't stand out to me so much this time, but yeah I think AT should have a word to her and get her to put a lid on it, period when in the court room. This isn't a comedy show. Jmo

 

[Cindizzi]

Kohberger’s Idaho defense attacks ‘prejudicial’ evidence in all-day hearing​

Alex BrizeeUpdated April 10, 2025 9:58 AM

A marathon evidentiary hearing in Bryan Kohberger’s Idaho murder case ended Wednesday with the judge overseeing the case hinting at the direction he planned to rule later on several of the more contested matters before him, but also issuing orders from the bench that set the boundaries for how attorneys may present some evidence at trial.

During the seven-hour day, which extended beyond closure of the Ada County Courthouse, 4th District Judge Steven Hippler peppered defense attorneys and prosecutors with questions on more than two dozen motions they’ve filed in recent months.

He decided to allow several pieces of key evidence — including Amazon records that show Kohberger bought the same brand of knifesuspected in the killing of four University of Idaho college students — to be used during the 30-year-old’s forthcoming capital murder trial. He also granted the prosecution’s use at trial of a 3D model of the Moscow home where the students died for demonstration only, which the defense vocally opposed.


[…]

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article303697551.html

 

[iamshadow21]

The only thing she has not tried is wetting the bed. Lol

Ah, but she would NEVER mention that. It's too commonly known that late bed wetting is considered an element of the Macdonald triad.

Macdonald triad - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

It's not considered of much merit these days as a predictor of antisocial behaviour in adulthood, but it's been too much in media and literature to risk saying it out loud if what she's trying to do is paint him as NOT being a sociopath.

MOO

 

[Megnut]

So... AT doesn't have a discoverable diagnosis of ASD for BK except that maybe she could get an expert to say BK was misdiagnosed (or a diagnosis was missed?) and he still had some traits/behaviors in adulthood that could be associated with ASD. But she hasn't provided the State with test results, etc.... sketchy.

So first she has to establish that BK has ASD which I don't think she can or has, so she's saying he's a lot like someone who does so....

And then she has to make the case that a diagnosis of ASD (or the association to it she's trying to make, without inviting the State to test him themselves) reaches the level of disability to mitigate/negate the death penalty. But iiuc nowhere is ASD a special class protected from the DP, like others where for instance IQs drop below 70.

So next she needs the judge to trailblaze. Make a special case for BK to be spared the DP on the grounds that individuals across the entire spectrum of ASD should be spared, when she hasn't even established that BK has ASD (and not a cluster of personality disorders and diagnoses, missed or otherwise, which might better account for his peculiarities and tendencies).

By motion, AT would have us believe BK still can't toe his shoes, has dire cognitive impairment (despite an IQ of 119), changes shower curtain liners out of compulsive habit and not conscious design), stares at people too hard and too long (due to a missed or errant diagnosis as a child but for which her own expert apparently said there were indications BK was trying to manipulate the results of her assessment) and that he's unable to function in the grown up world.

To which the judge couldn't stop himself from saying, "was that before his doctoral program?"

ASD isn't and shouldn't be on trial in this case.

Whatever disorders BK has, he lived alone, he studied, he worked, he fed and bathed himself, he shopped, he shopped online, he knew how to buy gift cards and pay with gift card, he took care of his apartment, he vacuumed a lot, he drove a lot. He was adulting. He struggled with authority, with being challenged -- basing this on the traffic stops and his TAing -- and ultimately he murdered four defenseless victims. He was fitting into society (following the rules of society, at least well enough) until he wasn't, culminating in a grossly horrific quadruple murder. And IMO that speaks more to personality disorders than it does to ASD.

BK's own decisions leading up to and following these crimes shows a high degree of function alongside some glaring anti-social behavior, which IMO was there all along, just not to the extreme where he put it on full display in that house.

If AT is serious about ASD, let's see where her expert has officially evaluated and diagnosed him, provided full discovery to the State, so they can challenge or confirm the results and present their own expert after doing their own evaluating to see whether there's even a mitigating factor here. BK could have narcissistic personality disorder, any number of anti-social personality disorders, oppositional defiance disorder, OCD, ADHD, even brain anomalies, and none of that might move the DP needle.

And AT knows that.

Which is why, as the sun set on her motions yesterday, she had to ask the judge to drop the DP because.... she doesn't have enough time to prepare.

The Defense is a trainwreck.

And I can't look away.

JMO

 

[Megnut]

Ah, but she would NEVER mention that. It's too commonly known that late bed wetting is considered an element of the Macdonald triad.

Macdonald triad - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

It's not considered of much merit these days as a predictor of antisocial behaviour in adulthood, but it's been too much in media and literature to risk saying it out loud if what she's trying to do is paint him as NOT being a sociopath.

MOO

That was my reaction too.

If he had that condition (bedwetting late in childhood) and if she cited it, every head would snap to the triad which is probably a better psychological fit than ASD, although there's nothing preventing a dual diagnosis. Someone who enters a home with residents present and with a weapon of mass destruction whereby he slaughters four victims probably as a constellation of disorders. Doesn't mean he was insane, doesn't mean he didn't know right from wrong. Knew it was wrong but did it anyway <----- and that is no defense nor a defect of the kind and character where the DP shouldn't be administered. Anti-social.

We haven't really talked about this as a kind of hate crime or on a larger scale, but I think they're a component here, not just of anti-social behavior, but anti-establishment. I don't think it was just personal for BK. I think he targeted what he thought was a certain kind of girl and he knew that he'd put an entire college/community on edge by burglaring his way into a house, murdering a sleeping coed without making a sound, slipping out as silently as he slipped in. Thumbing his nose at all pretty college women, thumbing his nose at his own college (as seen in his too-harsh grading followed by really no grading at all), thumbing his nose at the Marines and LE. A great big -- I'LL SHOW YOU.

That's a lot of psychopathy.

JMO

 

[Teche]

Yep. All of that.

He was never even diagnosed with ASD. The shoelaces and the 5s, that was all in his childhood.

Even the judge quipped, "was that before his doctoral program?"

Slip-on shoes would have solved his problem.
Did BK receive accommodations while in grade school? Was he classified as 1508 or 504 with accommodations in the learning environment? If so, those records exist. AT needs to produce them.

 

[mickey2942]

MOO is that if the defense can say, "ASD". Then the prosecution can say, "Sociopath" and "Psychopath".

Let's have a full word salad during the trial.

 

[NCWatcher]

Slip-on shoes would have solved his problem.
Did BK receive accommodations while in grade school? Was he classified as 1508 or 504 with accommodations in the learning environment? If so, those records exist. AT needs to produce them.

Maybe. I'm not sure though IF his case was as described (without intellectual or language impairment) what academic accomodations he would have qualified for or needed.
MOO