4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #104

[katydid23]

It is technically impossible for the state to know if the phone was turned off. JMO.

AT&T would have tower dump records for all of their cell towers unless a cell tower was out of service. Apparently this data is kept for 7 years, not just 7 days. (Please see my previous post with the chart from the CAST manual showing retention periods.) JMO.

It seems to me that there is confusion over this issue but it is actually very straight forward once it is understood that AT&T made an internal change in 2023.

In 2022, AT&T used NELOS for advance timing advance reports. Sometime in 2023, AT&T changed computer systems and departments to GLDC. GLDC would NOT have data from 2022 since their system apparently has only been online since 2023. GLDC first provided LE with TAR's in May 2023, according to Sy Ray:

View attachment 578714GLDC may have a 7 day retention period, however NELOS, which is what was being used in 2022 DOES HAVE a 7 year retention period. The people in GLDC do not provide information from NELOS, apparently. They probably never worked with NELOS and don't have access to NELOS. According to SR, BJ is one of the correct contacts for non GLDC data:
JMO.
View attachment 578715View attachment 578717
All JMO.
View attachment 578725

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/032625+Defendants+Notice+of+Filing+Affidavit+iso+Obj+to+the+States+MIL+RE+ATT+Timing+Advance+Records.pdf

Hopefully this clarifies things.

All JMO.

Tower Dumps are useless if the phone is powered down.

 

[katydid23]

I hope they whip out some "certain" evidence soon, because a lot of it isn't doing it for me (personally) and there's definitely a lot of people who feel the same. I haven't read/engaged in this thread very much, but I'd like more definitive evidence.

"Definitive Evidence"? Like what? Is not DNA left on the knife sheath, and evidence that he bought same type sheath and knife pretty definitive?

 

[al66pine]

Order of Exp. Witnesses.

It seems apparent, to me anyway, that if two people committed the murders, at least two weapons were used. I doubt that the killers passed the KaBar back and forth to each other. With his apparent lack of fine motor skills, BK would likely have stabbed himself doing that. Having said that, I believe the defense expert will largely contend that two murderers were needed to acccomplish the murders within the suspected time frame. The state will then offer their toxicology expert, who will likely state that the victims' levels of intoxication would have lessened the time needed to kill all four, due to lack of ability to fight back. It will just be a battle of dueling experts, and I think, taken in toto, along with all of the other evidence that will be presented, the jury will decide that BK did have the time necessary to do all of the killing, and will decide that he, in fact, did. JMO

@SteveP
Seems possible or likely that in ID's case in chief, they'd put Tox E-Wit on stand to explain tox results and opn. about level of impairment, reaction time, etc. Of course, Def. gets to cross exam, etc.

Then it seems imo later, in def. case, def. would put its E-Wit (what special experience, education, degrees, etc???) on stand to say yada yada, one person couldn't do it, would have taken two, etc. yada, yada.

^ post seems to expect Def. will put on its E-Wit re 2 perps and that ID. would not put Tox E-Wit on stand in case in chief. Sorry if I'm misreading.

Seems ID. would want to put Tox E-Wit on stand before rebuttal , but ICBWrong.
imo

ETA: moved a ¶ to a new post below.

 

[SteveP]

Order of Exp. Witnesses.

@SteveP
Seems possible or likely that in ID's case in chief, they'd put Tox E-Wit on stand to explain tox results and opn. about level of impairment, reaction time, etc. Of course, Def. gets to cross exam, etc.

Then later, in def. case, def. would put its E-Wit (what special experience, education, degrees, etc???) on stand to say yada yada, one person couldn't do it, would have taken two, etc. yada, yada.

^ post seems to expect Def. will put on its E-Wit re 2 perps and that ID. would not put Tox E-Wit on stand in case in chief. Sorry if I'm misreading.

Seems ID. would want to put Tox E-Wit on stand before rebuttal , but ICBWrong.
imo

I believe that you are likely right.

 

[katydid23]

Just me asking and a real question.. Why would we ( the public "we") think we would know about these things? I believe that there is evidence we don't actually know the importance of and maybe some we know nothing of, but both defense and prosecution do. Is there reason to believe that the public knows everything that defense and prosecution do?

In my experience of 'trial watching' , whenever there is a very big important piece of damning evidence, it is usually revealed pretty early. It will be hinted at in the PCA, or during pre-trial hearings, or agued about in filed motions, or picked up in paperwork released pre-trial.

If there was something earth shattering, I think we would have heard about it by now because this has been a very high profile case. For example, If BK did literally have an ID of one of the victims, AT would have filed several motions to suppress that evidence already, IMO.

 

[al66pine]

ID.s Tox E-Wit. Scope of Testimony?

I believe that you are likely right.

Hmm, now thinking about scope of ID's Tox E-Wit testimony.
Will it address only the level of impairment, inability to fight back, etc of the 4 deceased?

Or will it also include opn. about the surviving housemates, their (poss.) level of impairment, and their memories being somewhat foggy (by whatever substances), thus explaining lack of typically expected reaction to call 911 immed'ly.
But Tox E-Wit still needs to conclude that the descriptions they gave, their texts, etc. could be reliable.

Could be a verrry high & extreeemely skinny tightrope for Wit. to walk. imo. Eta: rephrased this line

 

[SteveP]

ID.s Tox E-Wit. Scope of Testimony?


Hmm, now thinking about scope of ID's Tox E-Wit testimony.
Will it address only the level of impairment, inability to fight back, etc of the 4 deceased?

Or will it also include opn. about the surviving housemates, their (poss.) level of impairment, and their memories being somewhat foggy (by whatever substances), thus explaiing lack of expected reaction to call 911 immed'ly, but Tox E-Wit still needing to conclude that the descriptions they gave, their texts, etc were or could be reliable.

Could be a verrry narrow path for Wit. to walk.

I expect the witness will carefully address the 4 dead students' intoxication levels, but will need to tiptoe very gently if he tries to mention how alcohol may have affected surviving roommates, and their decisions, since it is really unknown to what level either of them may have been under the influence.

 

[Boxer]

Whether the witness was sober or drunk.. You still are half asleep at 4 in the morning.

This still won't help the defense's case IMO

Her description of BK was way before he was identified as a suspect... and was spot on for what little she could tell. "bushy eyebrows and not muscular but athletic"

Not exclusionary, and she caught a distinctive feature.

 

[Megnut]

It seems apparent, to me anyway, that if two people committed the murders, at least two weapons were used. I doubt that the killers passed the KaBar back and forth to each other. With his apparent lack of fine motor skills, BK would likely have stabbed himself doing that. If two weapons were used, however, that still does not mean there was necessarily more than one killer. We know that BK did have at least two other knives confiscated during searches, at least one was some type of Smith and Wesson pocket knife. Having said that, I believe the defense expert's main purpose will be to contend that two murderers were needed to accomplish the murders within the suspected time frame. The state will offer a toxicology expert, who will likely state that the victims' levels of intoxication would have lessened the time needed to kill all four, due to lack of ability to fight back, allowing BK the time needed. It will just be a battle of dueling experts, and I think, taken in toto, along with all of the other evidence that will be presented, the jury will decide that BK did have the time necessary to do all of the killing, and will decide that he, in fact, did. JMO

I hope the State, at trial, sets a timeclock, for eleven minutes.

That is a very long time. Four unprepared, impaired, ambushed victims. One athletic but not muscular man, with means and motive and a sharpened Kbar, that is no contest.

Even ten minutes. 600 seconds. The Kbar is designed to kill. In a matter of seconds.

If he'd been there any longer than that, we could question why, what was taking him so long, what else was he doing. But ten, eleven minutes, that is time enough. He came there prepared to kill.

And he killed no time doing it.

JMO

 

[Sachi]

Whether the witness was sober or drunk.. You still are half asleep at 4 in the morning.

This still won't help the defense's case IMO

Her description of BK was way before he was identified as a suspect... and was spot on for what little she could tell. "bushy eyebrows and not muscular but athletic"

And consistent over time

 

[Boxer]

In my experience of 'trial watching' , whenever there is a very big important piece of damning evidence, it is usually revealed pretty early. It will be hinted at in the PCA, or during pre-trial hearings, or agued about in filed motions, or picked up in paperwork released pre-trial.

If there was something earth shattering, I think we would have heard about it by now because this has been a very high profile case. For example, If BK did literally have an ID of one of the victims, AT would have filed several motions to suppress that evidence already, IMO.

Agree. Still it is mysterious why they took them. Maybe he had some fake IDs?

 

[wendy44]

Snipped FF

MIL hearing

AT

if you look at the

trans the grand jury transcript this is 1A this relates to DM and I'm at page

187 lines 12 through 16 DM is not responding to any of the

statements she makes on the 911 call to a startling event

she says that for a

brief second she saw XK but thought she was passed out from the night before

4:31:43

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AT is talking about grand jury testimony that we don't have access to, so I'm not sure if she's talking about before the 911 call or during that period when the 911 operator sent them up to find out if she was passed out. It's certainly possible DM took a peek up there before calling the friends or when she was with the friends before calling 911. AT is going to want to make the case that it wasn't during the 911 call so it won't be considered an excited utterance. It makes sense that they would call the friends because they saw XK and she wasn't responding, but it sounds to me like the friend is yelling XK and EC's names from the other side of the door. It seems odd that he would be doing that if XK was laying there in open view. But I guess she could have been and he was scared to approach her. JMO

 

[Nila Aella]

I expect the witness will carefully address the 4 dead students' intoxication levels, but will need to tiptoe gently if he tries to mention how alcohol may have affected surviving roommates, and their decisions, since it is really unknown to what level either of them may have been under the influence.

DM was interviewed by LE.

MIL Eyebrows

in her own words she was probably “very drunk” and tired when she saw the intruder at 4:00 a.m.

Footnote:
Saturday November 12, 2022 through the early morning hours of Sunday November 13, 2022, D.M. had consumed champagne, 9-10 seltzers (White Claws with 5 percent alcohol), Borg (a concoction of hard alcohol, water, and flavoring in a big plastic jug), and unknown amount of alcohol while participating in a drinking game. (Motion in Limine 9 – Exhibit 6 Gooch interview transcript, p. 19, l. 2-p. 30, l. 16; p. 50, l. 14- p. 51, l. 25.)

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/032425-Defendants-Reply-States-Response-Defs-MIL7-RE-Witness-Identification-Bushy-Eyebrows.pdf

JMO

 

[Sachi]

Hate seeing his selfy pic at the top of this thread.

 

[Megnut]

Hate seeing his selfy pic at the top of this thread.

Now imagine seeing that face at 4:17 am or so. Blacked out with only that brybrow ridge showing.

Now imagine him staring right through you.

I'm sorry I made you imagine that. Nightmare fodder.

I've said this before. It's like if a nightmare had a nightmare...

JMO

 

[wendy44]

I agree that Blum wrote that. However, the question I was answering was about what the defense theory will be.

We also know from the hearing last week that AT has a crime scene expert witness, Matthew Noedel, who allegedly will say at least 2 people committed these murders. There is also speculation that he may say more than 1 type of weapon was used. JMO.

Kohberger hearing dives into theory of multiple suspects

Bryan Kohberger’s attorneys are working with an expert who says it’s likely two people were responsible for the Nov. 13, 2022, murders of four University of Idaho students.

www.bigcountrynewsconnection.com

All JMO.

I don't really think Blum's take was that the investigator found a "clear linkage" to the organized crime/drug world that made sense and allegedly had evidence that fits with the case. The roommate who never moved in followed someone on Instagram who sold drugs. That was it.

In fact, Blum writes, "Yet these speculations--when held up to the light--immediately turned porous."

JMO

 

[al66pine]

Why Seize the ID Cards?

Agree. Still it is mysterious why they took them. Maybe he had some fake IDs?

@Boxer Thanks for your post mentioning possibility of fake IDs.

IDK if IDs or ID cards were w'in the scope of the S-Wrrt.
IDK if motions or any other filings have revealed the nature of the IDs / ID cards seized. If so, ICR.
Hmmm, I wonder if all or any of them actually have photos.

Conceivably, the times & circumstances of one or more of the cards issuance could place BK at a location where he should not have been.

Yep, could have been fake ID's which BK created.
- in his own name,
---- from issuer giving the named user/buyer to a discount for goods or services.
---- from issuer giving the named user/buyer to loyalty points/ cash back.
---- from issuer allowing entry into a facility (uni. or other?)
---- seemingly from issuer lending prestige of some sort.

- in name of a ficticious person, w same as ^.

Or could be legit ID cards, either current or expired (when seized).
- in BK'S name.
- in name of others whose homes/apts he hot-prowled, as a few posters suggested.

Fairly common for some items seized per S-Wrrt to have little relevance or evidentiary value. I wonder about these cards.

 

[Sachi]

Now imagine seeing that face at 4:17 am or so. Blacked out with only that brybrow ridge showing.

Now imagine him staring right through you.

I'm sorry I made you imagine that. Nightmare fodder.

I've said this before. It's like if a nightmare had a nightmare...

JMO

Yes, if a nightmare had a nightmare , it’s unimaginable really. How could anyone even understand what is happening. We all give ourselves way to much credit when we say things like..” if it were me and this happened I would..” would you really? Because this is beyond comprehending in the middle of the day, in a brightly lit location with witnesses and so much farther out of reach at 4am , at a most vulnerable time in the darkness, in your safe sleeping place. It’s bone chilling.

 

[Megnut]

Why Seize the ID Cards?

@Boxer Thanks for your post mentioning possibility of fake IDs.

IDK if IDs or ID cards were w'in the scope of the S-Wrrt.
IDK if motions or any other filings have revealed the nature of the IDs / ID cards seized. If so, ICR.
Hmmm, I wonder if all or any of them actually have photos.

Conceivably, the times & circumstances of one or more of the cards issuance could place BK at a location where he should not have been.

Yep, could have been fake ID's which BK created.
- in his own name,
---- from issuer giving the named user/buyer to a discount for goods or services.
---- from issuer giving the named user/buyer to loyalty points/ cash back.
---- from issuer allowing entry into a facility (uni. or other?)
---- seemingly from issuer lending prestige of some sort.

- in name of a ficticious person, w same as ^.

Or could be legit ID cards, either current or expired (when seized).
- in BK'S name.
- in name of others whose homes/apts he hot-prowled, as a few posters suggested.

Fairly common for some items seized per S-Wrrt to have little relevance or evidentiary value. I wonder about these cards.

Significant for how they were stored. In a glove? Weird.

But they could be his own school IDs. College, Master's, PhD, maybe one for TA, if that would have its own.

If they were old driver's licenses, you'd think that would have been noted.

Maybe it was a mix. Driver's licenses -- 12 years worth and college ID, undergrad and grad.

Collected for the addresses.

Current ones, in his wallet.

JMO

 

[Nila Aella]

Agree. Still it is mysterious why they took them. Maybe he had some fake IDs?

This is the items to be seized list:

Commonwealth v. Kohberger 682 MD 2022 | Cases of Public Interest | News & Statistics | Unified Judicial System of Pennsylvania

JMO