4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #104

[Boxer]

Why Seize the ID Cards?

@Boxer Thanks for your post mentioning possibility of fake IDs.

IDK if IDs or ID cards were w'in the scope of the S-Wrrt.
IDK if motions or any other filings have revealed the nature of the IDs / ID cards seized. If so, ICR.
Hmmm, I wonder if all or any of them actually have photos.

Conceivably, the times & circumstances of one or more of the cards issuance could place BK at a location where he should not have been.

Yep, could have been fake ID's which BK created.
- in his own name,
---- from issuer giving the named user/buyer to a discount for goods or services.
---- from issuer giving the named user/buyer to loyalty points/ cash back.
---- from issuer allowing entry into a facility (uni. or other?)
---- seemingly from issuer lending prestige of some sort.

- in name of a ficticious person, w same as ^.

Or could be legit ID cards, either current or expired (when seized).
- in BK'S name.
- in name of others whose homes/apts he hot-prowled, as a few posters suggested.

Fairly common for some items seized per S-Wrrt to have little relevance or evidentiary value. I wonder about these cards.

Or like a Costco ID etc.

 

[gremlin444]

IMHO, the ID cards are just a red herring.

IDs that would have photos
1) old driver's licenses could acct for some--I don't know how long it's been PA's policy but currently when you renew they punch a hole in your old license before giving it back to you
2) old high school ID (s)
3) community college ID
4) Desales University ID--possibly two, one for BA and one for MA
5) ID from his security job in the high school
6) member IDs from any gyms/YMCA (remember his boxing) or park district
7) Costco/Sam's Club memberhips

I know that right now, I have old watch box in my dresser that has my old ID cards like an anceint work ID, MO ASL interpreting certification card, YMCA card, park district card, and Costco card. Some of those have sentimental value, some just need to be put through a shredding machine and I never get around to doing it.

If there was anything nefarious about his cards that could be linked to the crime, we'd already be seeing motions in limine to repress them, IMHO.

 

[Nila Aella]

Hearing cancelled

https://s3.dualstack.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR01-24-31665/Summary/Current-Case-Summary.pdf

 

[Ghostwheel]

Why Seize the ID Cards?

@Boxer Thanks for your post mentioning possibility of fake IDs.

IDK if IDs or ID cards were w'in the scope of the S-Wrrt.
IDK if motions or any other filings have revealed the nature of the IDs / ID cards seized. If so, ICR.
Hmmm, I wonder if all or any of them actually have photos.

Conceivably, the times & circumstances of one or more of the cards issuance could place BK at a location where he should not have been.

Yep, could have been fake ID's which BK created.
- in his own name,
---- from issuer giving the named user/buyer to a discount for goods or services.
---- from issuer giving the named user/buyer to loyalty points/ cash back.
---- from issuer allowing entry into a facility (uni. or other?)
---- seemingly from issuer lending prestige of some sort.

- in name of a ficticious person, w same as ^.

Or could be legit ID cards, either current or expired (when seized).
- in BK'S name.
- in name of others whose homes/apts he hot-prowled, as a few posters suggested.

Fairly common for some items seized per S-Wrrt to have little relevance or evidentiary value. I wonder about these cards.

It could be that the glove is what they were seizing and the ID cards just happened to be inside, too. The ID cards just came along since they were inside. As a thought.

 

[iamshadow21]

It could be that the glove is what they were seizing and the ID cards just happened to be inside, too. The ID cards just came along since they were inside. As a thought.

I know previously there have been discussions and the very plausible point was raised that 'inside a glove inside a box' could have been an error by someone writing in haste and what was intended to be written was that the IDs were found in the car's glovebox. Which makes much more sense.

MOO

 

[Ghostwheel]

I know previously there have been discussions and the very plausible point was raised that 'inside a glove inside a box' could have been an error by someone writing in haste and what was intended to be written was that the IDs were found in the car's glovebox. Which makes much more sense.

MOO

I don't disagree. But once again my own (admittedly somewhat bizarre) life experience rears it's head for me. The id, credit card and cash I would carry? If I didn't have a pocket, it was in my sock. There were many times I had to go locate said sock (which might end up in my room, living room, kitchen and yes, car) to find my ID. That and my D puts anything loose inside of something else, so putting a set of loose IDs in a glovebox in an empty Kleenex package, envelope or glove would not be unusual for her.

I can wait and see if there is anything important in the IDs or Glove or glovebox. I have my own list of things that I think we haven't seen anything about because it either may not be important enough to file a motion about, or because there is no way to get it excluded and the defense thinks it won't matter. JMO, of course.

 

[Warwick7]

Hearing cancelled

View attachment 579047

https://s3.dualstack.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR01-24-31665/Summary/Current-Case-Summary.pdf

I wonder why?

 

[fcavanaugh]

IMO AT saying at last week’s hearing she hasn’t had time to go through all the discovery because reasons blah, blah..but Judge blah, blah…
Cue the world’s smallest violin. SMH.

I have reasons for being interested to know if AT had this issue in previous DP cases/high profile cases she defended in the past. Haven’t had time IRL to look up any of her other cases yet but plan to when I have time.

IMO the discovery AT has seen/has had time to review looks really really bad for her client BK and wants to have all that stuff thrown out/excluded (flurry of motions).
And proceeds to drop a bomb on the court at last week’s hearing about having a lead on some other potential suspect. How long is it going to take her to investigate said alleged lead and possibly put together an SODDI defense???
*Rhetorical question*

I understand there were mega terabytes/lots of discovery information to sift through but I’d think AT as an experienced, highly qualified DP Attorney knows better than anyone that that’s not at all uncommon in a case like this.
After all she’s defending the suspected murderer of not just 1, but 4 individuals! That alone should have told her there’d likely be voluminous amount of discovery and in the interests of her client I’d of thought she’d have hired/asked to hire more law clerks/Paralegals? to help out with discovery as the case progressed. Perhaps she did and was denied extra help? But then, if that were the case, why wouldn’t she have mentioned that to the Judge last week when he said something to the effect you should’ve hired more paralegals to help etc.

At any rate, I’m really scratching my head over here folks about the fact she’s now responsible for managing/defending two DP cases and wondering how her client BK feels about that. I understand she’s in private practice now but perhaps she still works in a PD role/capacity because she’s the only qualified DP Attorney so the 2nd case was assigned to her/she had no choice? That actually would make more sense to me rather than her choosing to take on another DP case when she claims she doesn’t even have enough time to review discovery in the one she’s already been working for 2.5 years.
But the way the Judge questioned her about why she would take on more work on another DP case makes me think it wasn’t assigned to her/she chose to take on the other case. And I have the same question as the Judge, WHY would she do that when this case is complex and mega discovery some of which according to AT herself, still hasn’t been gone through/reviewed with 4 short months left until trial. IMO this complex case demands a lead Defense Attorney’s full, undivided attention from start to finish.

Having said all that, IMO at last week’s hearing AT appeared to be not as confident as she seemed in earlier hearings, imo got flustered and tripped up quite a few times.
As we know, the Judge called AT out and came down on her hard a couple times for reasons previously discussed which imo was warranted and did/does not look good for AT.

Also, I noticed at the hearing last week as well as at the hearings in January, AT & BK didn’t sit next to each other and appeared to be not as ‘chummy’ for lack of a better word as they did in earlier hearings. What I mean by that is I noticed at earlier hearings they acknowledged/nodded and smiled at each other a few times, sat side by side etc., whereas at the past couple hearings they’ve sat apart and hardly acknowledge one another. It could be me but I sense something might be afoot/not working between AT & BK lately. Maybe he’s upset that she took on another DP case while still working on his case?? Anyway just some subtle little things I’ve noticed at the past couple hearings. I could be way off, they could be getting on just fine for all anyone knows.

IMO at the very least, AT is employing delay tactics filing blizzard of motions, trying to stall or halt proceedings altogether. Having said that, some future motions I could see being filed by AT are request for delay of trial to fully investigate other suspect lead she dropped on the court last week and/or request for recusal of Judge H.

On the extreme end of things, if AT continues to plead she doesn’t have time to go through all the discovery and shows lackluster, less than stellar performance going forward, imo she might be wanting off the case altogether because BK is too challenging to work with, knows she’s likely to lose at trial and provide an opening for BK to file for ineffective counsel before, during,
or after trial via appeal if he’s convicted. I’m not saying any of those things will happen or if they do will be granted. It’s just that for me, wouldn’t surprise me at all if any of those things were to happen at the 11th hour so to speak with trial looming/set to begin in four short months and things imo not looking too good for AT/BK.

IMHOO

ETA-clarity

 

[MeadowMuffin]

That smirk.

SMH, and sitting on my hands.

JMVHO.

Duper's Delight. Used by Narcissists the world over. Because they delight in getting one over on you.

 

[Warwick7]

They never found the sharpener. What would be the point of getting rid of that?

 

[Ghostwheel]

They never found the sharpener. What would be the point of getting rid of that?

Why have a sharpener if you don't have a knife? Trying to pretend he never had one?

 

[Nila Aella]

I know previously there have been discussions and the very plausible point was raised that 'inside a glove inside a box' could have been an error by someone writing in haste and what was intended to be written was that the IDs were found in the car's glovebox. Which makes much more sense.

MOO

This item was listed on the House return
Not on the car return.
JMO

Commonwealth v. Kohberger 682 MD 2022 | Cases of Public Interest | News & Statistics | Unified Judicial System of Pennsylvania

 

[MeadowMuffin]

I agree that Blum wrote that. However, the question I was answering was about what the defense theory will be.

We also know from the hearing last week that AT has a crime scene expert witness, Matthew Noedel, who allegedly will say at least 2 people committed these murders. There is also speculation that he may say more than 1 type of weapon was used. JMO.

Kohberger hearing dives into theory of multiple suspects

Bryan Kohberger’s attorneys are working with an expert who says it’s likely two people were responsible for the Nov. 13, 2022, murders of four University of Idaho students.

www.bigcountrynewsconnection.com

All JMO.

EBM for link.

Chad Isaak's trial...scroll down to see his knife and compare to BK's.

SMH. I know nothing about this crime scene expert. My opinion is that he will probably prove to be as much an "expert" as Sy Ray.

I've brought up 46 year old Chad Isaak twice already so I won't go into as much detail this time. But I will say that Chad Isaak murdered four people—Rober Fakler, Adam Fuehrer, and married couple Lois and William Cobb—at RJR Maintenance and Management in Mandan, North Dakota, on April 1, 2019.

Surveillance footage and investigative reports indicate that the entire crime took place in about 15 minutes.

Here’s a rough timeline based on what was revealed during the investigation and trial:

Around 6:45 a.m.: Isaak was seen entering the RJR building.
By 7:00 a.m.: All four victims had been attacked and killed.
3 had at least 1 gunshot in addition to numerous stabs and slashes.
One body was hidden.
A physical fight had taken place with the first 2 victims, with a table and lamp knocked over and a fire extinguisher knocked off the wall.
The last victim was only stabbed to death.
Total knife wounds: 98
He left shortly after, disguised and trying to avoid detection. Wore reversible hunting clothes.
AND there were at least 3 weapons available to the victims, but the blitz attack did not afford them time to retrieve them.

Of course 1 27 year old young, strong person can do this to 3 sleeping/sleepy inebriated girls and 1 strong sleeping inebriated young man. Even if the 27 year old is a coward.

 

[gremlin444]

What I have such a difficult time with in this case is how he overpowered 4 people relatively quietly - no screaming "who are you?!" or anything despite tons of defensive wounds on a couple of the victims? - and how there was a "bloodbath" yet when one of the surviving roommates saw Xana she thought she was "just passed out".
<modsnip - not victim friendly>

While BK is perhaps guilty in reality, I don't know if I'd find him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
1) He has ineffective counsel. 2) The prosecution has been shady every step of the way IMO. I'll leave it at those two. There's more, but you guys get the gist.

People often bring up Ted Bundy's attack at the Chi Omega house for comparison to the King Road murders--and for good reason.

--entry through unlocked/poorly locked back door into a shared living situation (Chi Omega sorority house) in the middle of the night
--ignored bedrooms on the floor he entered and went up to bedrooms on the next floor to attack
--attacked 4 victims in different rooms (two girls in one room, the other two each in separate rooms)
--in the time span of 15-20 min he was able to:
1) bludgeon and then garrote one girl to death
2) go to another room and bludgeon, sexually assault, and strangle to death another girl
3) go to a third room and bludgeon the two girls in there, stopping only because he was interrupted by the headlights of a car pulling into the sorority house parking lot

--other members of the sorority house said they heard no sounds of the attacks and received harassment because of that. Even in the shared room where the two girls were attacked, the second girl didn't wake up to her roommate screaming--she woke up because of the thuds of the bludgeoning before she was then attacked
--as he fled the house after being interrupted, he was seen by a sorority sister who had just come home. She saw his club and his profile and remembered his distinct nose. The defense team went after her testimony because the house was dark, she had been out drinking, she was tired, etc.
--At first, that witness thought it might have been a guy that someone snuck in. She went upstairs, woke up her roommate, and they checked the front door and first floor. They weren't sure what to do, but decided to wake up their sorority president and ask her.
--The only reason they discovered that there had been attacks is because one girl came staggering out of her room, and they went to go see her while someone went in her room to ask her roommate what happened--and discovered her severely injured as well.
--police weren't called until they actually saw someone bleeding and visibly injured
--after police did a roll call of the girls and found one missing, an officer and that girl's best friend in the house went to her room...her friend went in, saw her dark hair and the sheet and thought she was sleeping....but Margaret Bowman was dead, blood on her bed and body from being bludgeoned.

Ted Bundy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I'm also attaching a Chicago Trib article from 1989 that has information from other girls in the house.

 

[Megnut]

What if:

AT thinks her best shot at rescuing BK from the DP is selling a diminished capacity argument, as if he has ASD and ASD Level I is the same as ASD Level III and ASD Level III is the same as the actual conditions which are protected from the DP. And to do that, she has to erase athletic, erase his IQ, erase all coordination and intelligence, reduce him to an invalid and BK doesn't like it one little bit.

I don't think he cares at all about his life or anybody else's. I imagine him being angered by anyone -- but especially a woman -- describing him as less of anything.

IMO AT and BK have very different goals.

JMO

 

[arielilane]

Know what else requires fine motor coordination?

Here's the church, here's the steeple....

View attachment 578809

Bet he has no trouble touching his nose, touching his toes, separating wee bits of personal trash from bigger bits of trash. Bet he did just fine using his smartphone too. You put your right fingers in, you put your right fingers out, you do the hokey pokey, and you type yourself out. Little keyboard, I bet TA, PhDer BK could operate his cellphone one-handed in his sleep. Well, while the rest of us sleep, I mean.

He picks up a pen, he writes, he types. On a doctoral level. And he shaves.

He obviously has some fine moral impairments, but fine motor ones? Nah.

JMO

https://www.cnn.com/2025/03/06/us/bryan-kohberger-autism-death-penalty/index.html

Know what else requires fine motor coordination?

Here's the church, here's the steeple....

View attachment 578809

Bet he has no trouble touching his nose, touching his toes, separating wee bits of personal trash from bigger bits of trash. Bet he did just fine using his smartphone too. You put your right fingers in, you put your right fingers out, you do the hokey pokey, and you type yourself out. Little keyboard, I bet TA, PhDer BK could operate his cellphone one-handed in his sleep. Well, while the rest of us sleep, I mean.

He picks up a pen, he writes, he types. On a doctoral level. And he shaves.

He obviously has some fine moral impairments, but fine motor ones? Nah.

JMO

https://www.cnn.com/2025/03/06/us/bryan-kohberger-autism-death-penalty/index.html

Priceless

 

[Sachi]

What if:

AT thinks her best shot at rescuing BK from the DP is selling a diminished capacity argument, as if he has ASD and ASD Level I is the same as ASD Level III and ASD Level III is the same as the actual conditions which are protected from the DP. And to do that, she has to erase athletic, erase his IQ, erase all coordination and intelligence, reduce him to an invalid and BK doesn't like it one little bit.

I don't think he cares at all about his life or anybody else's. I imagine him being angered by anyone -- but especially a woman -- describing him as less of anything.

IMO AT and BK have very different goals.

The irony! And it’s a woman doing this, no less! WOW.

 

[Sundog]

But the way the Judge questioned her about why she would take on more work on another DP case makes me think it wasn’t assigned to her/she chose to take on the other case. And I have the same question as the Judge, WHY would she do that when this case is complex and mega discovery some of which according to AT herself, still hasn’t been gone through/reviewed with 4 short months left until trial. IMO this complex case demands a lead Defense Attorney’s full, undivided attention from start to finish.
. . .

On the extreme end of things, if AT continues to plead she doesn’t have time to go through all the discovery and shows lackluster, less than stellar performance going forward, imo she might be wanting off the case altogether because BK is too challenging to work with, knows she’s likely to lose at trial and provide an opening for BK to file for ineffective counsel before, during, or after trial via appeal if he’s convicted. I’m not saying any of those things will happen or if they do will be granted. It’s just that for me, wouldn’t surprise me at all if any of those things were to happen at the 11th hour so to speak with trial looming/set to begin in four short months and things imo not looking too good for AT/BK.

<snipped for focus>

When the judge in this case commented to AT regarding her taking on a second DP case, I actually wondered at the time if BK made a note of that regarding the issue of an appeal for ineffective counsel if he is found guilty and sentenced to death. After all, the judge in the case questioned BK's defense attorney about this in open court. That might actually carry some weight in an appeal, with the judge inadvertently helping out BK, possibly, regarding an appeal on grounds of ineffective counsel.

 

[fcavanaugh]

DBM. Messed up quote.

 

[fcavanaugh]

<snipped for focus>

When the judge in this case commented to AT regarding her taking on a second DP case, I actually wondered at the time if BK made a note of that regarding the issue of an appeal for ineffective counsel if he is found guilty and sentenced to death. After all, the judge in the case questioned BK's defense attorney about this in open court. That might actually carry some weight in an appeal, with the judge inadvertently helping out BK, possibly, regarding an appeal on grounds of ineffective counsel.

Yes I can see that as a potential as well, I noticed BK appeared to be writing something down a couple times at last week’s hearing.
A very good point @Sundog.

IMHOO