4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #105

[Warwick7]

He entered the neighborhood at 4:04... wasn't parking until 4:08-09....

GHI does a good job syncing up the PCA details.

JMO

12 minute video, 4th approach at about 8m in the video

Thank you @Megnut !
I have my timeline but don't have it marked as to where I got the info. We have SG interviews, GHI, Newsnation, PCA, doc dumps etc...
But you are right GH has a tight timeline with ring camera timestamps and cctv timestamps.

 

[Warwick7]

Court held a hearing to determine whether a Frank's hearing was warranted. It wasn't.

JMO

I knew it!! I thought that was right. Thank you!!

 

[Warwick7]

Yes and when she makes a statement like that in court, we know it is true. BT didn't object to what she said or claim otherwise. So it is a fact.

M00
Just because AT makes a statement in court does not make it true. She made statements about Sy Ray, yet Hippler made it clear he was a conspiracy theorist.

And just because BT didn't object does not mean that AT's statement is a fact.

M00 is the primary reason an attorney makes an objection is to preserve his right to appeal if he loses the case.
Again M00 is prosecution is not going to lose this case.

 

[mrjitty]

M00
Just because AT makes a statement in court does not make it true. She made statements about Sy Ray, yet Hippler made it clear he was a conspiracy theorist.

And just because BT didn't object does not mean that AT's statement is a fact.

M00 is the primary reason an attorney makes an objection is to preserve his right to appeal if he loses the case.
Again M00 is prosecution is not going to lose this case.

Worth remembering also that statements by counsel are not evidence.

 

[Arkay]

To put to rest the notion that there was a miniscule amount of touch DNA or 10 cells or whatever on the knife sheath. From the recent motion regarding Rylene Nowlin and DNA on the knife sheath:

mil

Ill. FACTS
A knife sheath was recovered from the crime scene in this matter and swabbed for DNA. A sample of DNA, identified as Q1.1, was extracted from the swab by the Idaho State Police Forensics Lab ("ISP Lab"). The DNA concentration was 0.168 mg/uL. It was subsequently tested using standard DNA STR (Short Tandem Repeat) methods. The STR profile developed revealed that the DNA came from a single source male profile.

Per ChatGPT:

A concentration of 0.168 mg/µL is not considered a small amount of DNA. It's actually quite a high concentration.

To break it down:

• 0.168 mg/µL is equivalent to 168 µg/mL (since 1 mg = 1000 µg, and 1 µL = 1/1000 mL).
• This means you have 168 micrograms of DNA for every milliliter of solution.

Context:​

• In forensic DNA analysis, concentrations can vary widely depending on the source and quality of the sample. For example, typical concentrations from human blood or semen can range from 10 µg/mL to several hundred µg/mL.
• This means 168 µg/mL is on the higher end of the spectrum, which is plenty of DNA for techniques like PCR (Polymerase Chain Reaction), which amplifies DNA for further analysis.
• In summary, a DNA concentration of 168 µg/mL is considered ample and well above the threshold needed for effective forensic DNA analysis.

I appreciate you and all the members who put up the statistics.

I’m the type, though, whose mind shuts down when I see math, lol.

What I do understand, though, is that no matter the amount, Bryan Kohberger’s DNA was positively identified in just about the most incriminatory place he could have left it.

I know it’s not the same, but let’s say the victims had cameras in their house. If there were one picture of Bryan stabbing someone vs. 100 pictures of him, the one picture would be enough. He was there and he did it.

I know it’s not a great example but it’s to my point that the small amount of Bryan’s DNA on the sheath is still enough to show Bryan was there, with his knife sheath, found beneath Maddie.

If there WERE pictures, I’m sure AT would chalk it up to artificial intelligence or something.

JMO

 

[Justice101]

I am quoting one of our members:

AT absolutely needs an alibi. If he doesn’t produce a rock solid one, then he’s done.

Why? Because the prosecution can more than meet their burden with his DNA on the sheath, the purchase of the same knife (now missing), his ownership of the same type of car, his movements that night (consistent with him being the killer), his 23 trips to the vicinity of the scene between 10pm and 4am, and the fact that he powered down his phone for the entire murder window.

We are not gullible enough to buy all of those coincidences, which are not only astronomical, but approach being mathematically impossible.

And there will be more…

Of course he cannot prove his alibi, which the defense already concedes.

This!!!

1) DNA on sheath 1 in 5,370,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
2) Same knife 1 in 50 let's say to be safe
3) Same type of car 1 in 100 let's say to be safe
4) Movement THAT NIGHT 1 in 1000 let's say to be safe
5) 23 previous trips to area 1 in 1000 let's say to be safe
6) Powered down phone same time period as murders 1 in 1000 let's say to be safe

You MULTIPLY all those probabilities together and you get something like only a 1 in 5,370,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 that it was not him.

There are "only" 8,000,000,000 people on the planet

Number of atoms in universe is 10^80
10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

Both are incredibly big numbers.

 

[Warwick7]

This!!!

1) DNA on sheath 1 in 5,370,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
2) Same knife 1 in 50 let's say to be safe
3) Same type of car 1 in 100 let's say to be safe
4) Movement THAT NIGHT 1 in 1000 let's say to be safe
5) 23 previous trips to area 1 in 1000 let's say to be safe
6) Powered down phone same time period as murders 1 in 1000 let's say to be safe

You MULTIPLY all those probabilities together and you get something like only a 1 in 5,370,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 that it was not him.

There are "only" 8,000,000,000 people on the planet

Number of atoms in universe is 10^80
10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

Both are incredibly big numbers.

I'm sorry I don't understand...

 

[Megnut]

I'm sorry I don't understand...

It's maths.

Multiplication. Where the odds, multiplied, get into numbers greater than any possible thing in the universe. You start with his DNA which was already astronomical in odds, then multiply for coincidences -- odds of an Elantra, the phone blackhole, the athletic build, the unibrybrow, the Amazon purchases...

You begin to see why AT's only strategy is verbosity. Maybe she can wear the judge and/or jury into tired confusion. It's all she's got.

Because the cumulative evidence is so solid, there's no space between all those zeroes for it to have been anyone but BK.

I've said it before. BK commit the perfect conviction.

JMO

 

[SteveP]

I appreciate you and all the members who put up the statistics.

I’m the type, though, whose mind shuts down when I see math, lol.

What I do understand, though, is that no matter the amount, Bryan Kohberger’s DNA was positively identified in just about the most incriminatory place he could have left it.

I know it’s not the same, but let’s say the victims had cameras in their house. If there were one picture of Bryan stabbing someone vs. 100 pictures of him, the one picture would be enough. He was there and he did it.

I know it’s not a great example but it’s to my point that the small amount of Bryan’s DNA on the sheath is still enough to show Bryan was there, with his knife sheath, found beneath Maddie.

If there WERE pictures, I’m sure AT would chalk it up to artificial intelligence or something.

JMO

BBM...I am sure that it will be pointed out that BK's DNA on the sheath found in a slain Maddie's bed, is not absolute proof that BK was actually there, with his sheath, BUT, and this is a huge BUT, as the strongest and most damning piece of physical evidence, along with all of the other evidence, pointing to him, and no one but him, that will be presented, I believe that it's going to be extremely hard, impossibly hard, for his defense to convince any reasonable juror that he wasn't. JMO

 

[INfisherman]

I responded to a post that focused on the amount of DNA.

Rylene N's rebuttal disclosure ng/ul
The final paragraph of her rebuttal disclosure states: Many complicated factors can influence the likelihood oftransfer ofDNA and the persistence ofthe transferred DNA after deposition. Current DNA technology cannot conclusively answer the question ofwhen DNA was deposited on an item or by what mechanism (i.e. direct or indirect transfer). It is possible the DNA detected on M2022-4843 Item 1.1 resulted from secondary transfer; however, based on Nowlin's training and experience it is her opinion given the quantity of DNA detected on M2022-4843 Item 1.1 (0.168ng/ul) and given the DNA profile obtained is single source it is more likely the result ofa direct transfer.

Both the D and P court submissions report it as ng/ul.
The Judge wrote mg/ul.
There is a huge difference between ng/ul and mg/ul.
JMO

Judges order:
Terms:
That said, the Court asks that counsel avoid the use ofthe terms as much as possible so that any potential confusion can be bypassed. To this end, the parties are instructed to submit a mutually agreeable instruction to provide to the jury in case the terms are inadvertently used. If a witness uses the term, opposing counsel can examine the witness about the broader meaning of the term within the forensic community, and the instruction may be given at that time

footnote
This limitation includes the terms "touch DNA" and "contact DNA," as was requested in the motion. In addition, based on Ms. Nowlin's concern over the term "trace DNA," the Court will advise against its use as well

Testimony/rebuttal
Given Dr. Ballad's anticipated testimony, Ms. Nowlin's rebuttal is proper. She will discuss the process of primary and secondary transfer, the variables affecting transfer and persistence and why she is of the opinion that the DNA on the knife sheath was more likely the result of a direct transfer. Of course, if Dr. Ballard limits her testimony on the stand, the Court can reconsider the scope of Ms. Nowlin's rebuttal. However, based on Dr. Ballard's report, Ms. Nowlin's anticipated rebuttal is appropriate.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/041825+Order+on+Defendants+Motion+in+Limine+RE+Rylene+Nowlin+and+Touch+and+Contact+DNA.pdf

JMO

Respectfully, I was aware to what you were responding but wasn’t sure if that was a typo by the judge or if you were implying the OP made the typo, as that wasn’t specifically mentioned in your post. Thanks for clarifying.

BBM
Help me out. I understood the judge denied AT a franks hearing. Yet, as I read your post there was a hearing? I'm a bit lost on this.

Apologies - yes, as @Megnut responded, in part, it was a hearing to determine if a Frank’s was necessary, as I understood it, for the IGG.

JMO

 

[Megnut]

MOO

If BK parked close to 4:09...

[XK was awake, listening to TikTok, eating her JITB]

He makes entry to the house no sooner than 4:09, more likely 4:10 or later, depending on any prep work he may have done and depending on his approach to the house (directly to the door or circumventing first). By 4:11 he's upstairs....

[XK still on TikTok, is she moving any the 2nd floor? Can she hear? Is she saying anything?]

[DM thinks she hears KG playing with Murphy. Thinks she's heard KG descend the steps, then hurry back up them, hears KG say there's someone there.]

I don't think BK needed more than 60 seconds to kill both roommates. First blow with the knife was probably well-practiced. Probably a one-two maneuver. No time to be artful, second victim to contend with. Likely he had to all but scale the bed, although, a twin bed wouldn't be a tremendous challenge to overcome due to his arm- and weapon-length. Larger bed, he may have had to climb atop it both for reach and traction. Landing blows but not with the precision of the first. This time he has a moving target with a bed and a body in the way. Still, he had every advantage. VI can't see how he could have spent more than three minutes upstairs. Frankly he could seriously have dispatched two victims in ... the time it takes the typical person to.... tie their shoelace.

[Why did XK stop listening to TikTok at 4:12? BK was likely in the house and murdering MM and KG at that precise minute... did XK see something? Pause. Disconnect TikTok? Remove her airpods? Hear something?]

[DM looks out. Sees no one, including XK.]

[Is XK aware that something is OFF? Does she move toward EC, for security?]

BK descends to the middle floor, has he seen XK and believes she's seen him? Does he overtake her at her bedroom door? [Whimper] "It's okay, I'm here to help you." Does BK see EC, quickly stab XK [Did XK put her hands up, to protect herself, which resulted in her defensive wounds? Or reach for the knife, to try to stop it?] Did BK step over/around XK in order to neutralize EC, another surprise threat? Then adeptly swing back and deliver a fatal blow to XK, crying on the floor? Did gravitational force cause EC to fall between the wall and the bed, resulting in a thud?

[Where was BK when DM opened her door the second time? Was the house quiet at that second?]

How long was BK detoured on the middle floor? I peg him descending the stairs at 4:13-14, by 4:17 BK is just leaving XK's room OR had just left it.

He is heading toward the slider on one side or the other of 4:17.

DM begins to open her door for the first time, no earlier than 4:19, but likely closer to 4:17-18. Stops cold. BK is moving past her door. He's RIGHT THERE.

BK exits the house between 4:17-19. He has at least two maybe three minutes to strip out of his coveralls, gather them up, the knife, a layer of gloves, and jellyroll them into the trunk or backseat, executed like a NASCAR pitstop. By 4:20-21 he is in his car, squealing his tires as he drives away at a high rate of speed.

In the house from 4:09 until 4:20 at the max, but probably 4:11 to 4:17/18. Well under ten minutes. Four murders, a ghastly and bloody massacre. Fast massacre and clean break (except for the sheath/DNA he left behind). He drives away, free of evidence on his person, en route to a suitable stopping point to rid himself of all of it.

Busy night, busy morning, by 10:30, it was all over. Ninja be gone, TA showered and dressed and buttoned up, like some sort of dark Superman, come out of his Clark Kent telephone showerbooth.

Could one person do that much damage in twelve minute? Yes, but I don't think it took him even that long.

He was on a mission.

JMO

 

[Sachi]

I appreciate you and all the members who put up the statistics.

I’m the type, though, whose mind shuts down when I see math, lol.

What I do understand, though, is that no matter the amount, Bryan Kohberger’s DNA was positively identified in just about the most incriminatory place he could have left it.

I know it’s not the same, but let’s say the victims had cameras in their house. If there were one picture of Bryan stabbing someone vs. 100 pictures of him, the one picture would be enough. He was there and he did it.

I know it’s not a great example but it’s to my point that the small amount of Bryan’s DNA on the sheath is still enough to show Bryan was there, with his knife sheath, found beneath Maddie.

If there WERE pictures, I’m sure AT would chalk it up to artificial intelligence or something.

JMO

What I do understand, though, is that no matter the amount, Bryan Kohberger’s DNA was positively identified in just about the most incriminatory place he could have left it.

no math necessary! TY

 

[Reacher]

M00
Just because AT makes a statement in court does not make it true. She made statements about Sy Ray, yet Hippler made it clear he was a conspiracy theorist.

And just because BT didn't object does not mean that AT's statement is a fact.

M00 is the primary reason an attorney makes an objection is to preserve his right to appeal if he loses the case.
Again M00 is prosecution is not going to lose this case.

Sy Ray a conspiracy theorist you say? This is the first time in his career he's worked with the defense. Was he a conspiracy theorist all the times he worked with the prosecution?

<modsnip - accusing the court of misconduct with no evidence>

 

[MassGuy]

Sy Ray a conspiracy theorist you say? This is the first time in his career he's worked with the defense. Was he a conspiracy theorist all the times he worked with the prosecution?

<modsnip - accusing the court of misconduct with no evidence>

The context was SY Ray spouting an insane conspiracy theory in this case.

He accused the state of telling easily provable, career ending lies, while conveniently failing to address the simple explanation provided by them (7 day AT&T retention period of TA records).

When asked for supporting evidence, the defense had absolutely nothing. They had previously been warned against doing this sort of thing, which always makes my blood boil whenever I see it (this is nothing new).

I don't know how Hippler was able to keep his cool.

 

[Reacher]

MOO

If BK parked close to 4:09...

[XK was awake, listening to TikTok, eating her JITB]

He makes entry to the house no sooner than 4:09, more likely 4:10 or later, depending on any prep work he may have done and depending on his approach to the house (directly to the door or circumventing first). By 4:11 he's upstairs....

[XK still on TikTok, is she moving any the 2nd floor? Can she hear? Is she saying anything?]

[DM thinks she hears KG playing with Murphy. Thinks she's heard KG descend the steps, then hurry back up them, hears KG say there's someone there.]

I don't think BK needed more than 60 seconds to kill both roommates. First blow with the knife was probably well-practiced. Probably a one-two maneuver. No time to be artful, second victim to contend with. Likely he had to all but scale the bed, although, a twin bed wouldn't be a tremendous challenge to overcome due to his arm- and weapon-length. Larger bed, he may have had to climb atop it both for reach and traction. Landing blows but not with the precision of the first. This time he has a moving target with a bed and a body in the way. Still, he had every advantage. VI can't see how he could have spent more than three minutes upstairs. Frankly he could seriously have dispatched two victims in ... the time it takes the typical person to.... tie their shoelace.

[Why did XK stop listening to TikTok at 4:12? BK was likely in the house and murdering MM and KG at that precise minute... did XK see something? Pause. Disconnect TikTok? Remove her airpods? Hear something?]

[DM looks out. Sees no one, including XK.]

[Is XK aware that something is OFF? Does she move toward EC, for security?]

BK descends to the middle floor, has he seen XK and believes she's seen him? Does he overtake her at her bedroom door? [Whimper] "It's okay, I'm here to help you." Does BK see EC, quickly stab XK [Did XK put her hands up, to protect herself, which resulted in her defensive wounds? Or reach for the knife, to try to stop it?] Did BK step over/around XK in order to neutralize EC, another surprise threat? Then adeptly swing back and deliver a fatal blow to XK, crying on the floor? Did gravitational force cause EC to fall between the wall and the bed, resulting in a thud?

[Where was BK when DM opened her door the second time? Was the house quiet at that second?]

How long was BK detoured on the middle floor? I peg him descending the stairs at 4:13-14, by 4:17 BK is just leaving XK's room OR had just left it.

He is heading toward the slider on one side or the other of 4:17.

DM begins to open her door for the first time, no earlier than 4:19, but likely closer to 4:17-18. Stops cold. BK is moving past her door. He's RIGHT THERE.

BK exits the house between 4:17-19. He has at least two maybe three minutes to strip out of his coveralls, gather them up, the knife, a layer of gloves, and jellyroll them into the trunk or backseat, executed like a NASCAR pitstop. By 4:20-21 he is in his car, squealing his tires as he drives away at a high rate of speed.

In the house from 4:09 until 4:20 at the max, but probably 4:11 to 4:17/18. Well under ten minutes. Four murders, a ghastly and bloody massacre. Fast massacre and clean break (except for the sheath/DNA he left behind). He drives away, free of evidence on his person, en route to a suitable stopping point to rid himself of all of it.

Busy night, busy morning, by 10:30, it was all over. Ninja be gone, TA showered and dressed and buttoned up, like some sort of dark Superman, come out of his Clark Kent telephone showerbooth.

Could one person do that much damage in twelve minute? Yes, but I don't think it took him even that long.

He was on a mission.

JMO

To answer your question no one person could not do all of that in 12 minutes in my opinion with only a knife. No way anyone leaves that scene without blood or DNA evidence in my opinion.

 

[iamshadow21]

To answer your question no one person could not do all of that in 12 minutes in my opinion with only a knife. No way anyone leaves that scene without blood or DNA evidence in my opinion.

Bundy was in and out of Chi Omega in under fifteen minutes. He attacked four, killing two, and also sexually assaulted the two he killed. He used an improvised club of oak taken from the woodpile.

BK was a student; I'm sure he studied that attack by Bundy when building his fantasy.

MOO

 

[Boxer]

Sy Ray a conspiracy theorist you say? This is the first time in his career he's worked with the defense. Was he a conspiracy theorist all the times he worked with the prosecution?

<modsnip - accusing the court of misconduct with no evidence>

He is appeared with an Anti-Shanaan Watts YouTuber, thats also unusual
For an ex-LE.

 

[MassGuy]

To answer your question no one person could not do all of that in 12 minutes in my opinion with only a knife. No way anyone leaves that scene without blood or DNA evidence in my opinion.

He could have done it in less than that. We know investigators reenacted this, so it'll be interesting to see what they came up with.

Knifing two intoxicated, sleeping girls to death with a combat knife, could be done in a minute.

It would have taken longer to kill Xana and Ethan, as there was apparently a struggle with the former - say a couple minutes more.

Time to take off coveralls, gloves, and maybe booties and put them in a bag -Maybe a minute

Add in 5 minutes of walk time, and extraneous time (perhaps stopping and listening/getting his courage up).

You're saying that no way anyone leaves that scene without blood or DNA evidence, and you want to introduce another offender? How does that work?

 

[Warwick7]

To answer your question no one person could not do all of that in 12 minutes in my opinion with only a knife. No way anyone leaves that scene without blood or DNA evidence in my opinion.

"To see if one person could have committed four killings in roughly 13 minutes, investigators conducted time runs at the house, the prosecution wrote in a filing last week. Gilbertson will testify that the time runs done by investigators confirmed one person could have carried out the homicides alone."

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article302871174.html#storylink=cpy

 

[Megnut]

And yet, it was done with a knife, and it was done by no fewer than one person -- if it was more than one, it still includes this one, but there's no evidence of which I'm aware in support of a second assailant.

Never mind that a second assailant near doubles the chances DM would have seen someone the other times she opened her door.

As to DNA/blood, this is a doctoral level criminal psychology scholar who knew a lot about crime scene analysis and would have prepared to cancel every chance of transference. Gloves, coveralls, face and hair covering -- he didn't get behind the wheel until he'd peeled off everything he'd worn in the house. Exactly what you'd expect from a careful planner, doctoral level.

Jmo