4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #106

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  • #101
RBBM

One wonders . . .

JMVHO.
Just thinking out loud. Hard to imagine what has gone through this kid’s mind since his mid-teens. She seems to be one who might check all his boxes but that’s all utter speculation on my behalf. For her sake, I hope I’m completely wrong. Likely nothing much will be said about it.

MOO
 
  • #102
I am not a mental health expert, but to me, a punch to the face of Kaylee is even more telling than stabbing her. Imo, that just screams hatred for women. JMO
MOO The punch was to keep her from screaming.
 
  • #103
I wonder if they had more than a professor/student relationship at some point & BK mistook a fling for something more serious or if it was just something from afar on BK’s behalf? I find it odd she is allegedly helping his defense, if even close to being true.

JMO

ETA clarity - if a fling occurred (not saying it did) & ended abruptly, this could be the catalyst for the issue towards women. I reiterate, it’s total speculation & JMO.
Did they ever meet in person? I thought exclusively Zoom.
 
  • #104
Did they ever meet in person? I thought exclusively Zoom.
I honestly do not have any idea; was drawing my speculative thoughts from the summary posted earlier upthread. Should be taken with a grain of salt, but would be very interesting to know if any of those claims went anywhere else in terms of potential motivations.

JMO
 
  • #105
My iPhone & watch track my steps & location. When I am at work I can use "find friends" to see if my husband is out working in the yard or in the house (and even what area of the house). It isn't always accurate but it's really good for the most part. Oh, and we have a very small lot; it's less than 3 quarters of an acre.
We live on half an acre and I’d say “find my iPhone” and 360 are pretty accurate, but they can be off by about 30-40ft sometimes. I lose my phone ant home quite a bit while multitasking, and the ringer is often off, so i make one of the kids use their’s to find mine. I searched a flowerbed once because according to find my iPhone, it was in the flowerbed and a possibility b/c i piddle in the garden daily. It ended up being in “the black hole” in between seats in my car. 😏
 
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  • #106
If the defense expert that is apparently going to insist that two people participated in the murders, and is going to suggest that more than one weapon was used, is going to base it partly on the report that Kaylee suffered a broken nose, that expert will be completely dissed by the jury, as common sense would tell most people that a man the size and build of BK, who was trained in boxing, could easily have broken Kaylee's nose with one punch to the face. And if we learn that there were more punches to KG, or punches to other victims, XK most likely, that changes nothing, as it pertains to his argument. With the condition his victims were in, BK's fist more than qualified as a weapon. JMO
He could easily have broken her nose by hitting her with the hilt of the knife he was holding and she was possibly trying to fend off, just sayin. There was no second person needed, MO. BK had the mental and physical capabilities to manage it all, in his dead of the night home invasion. AJMO
 
  • #107
I’ve read the text exchanges and listened to 911 call. The info below is new to me, though. (seeing Xana on the floor with head turned away while on the way to Bethany’s room and seeing Xana again before being told to call 911.)

Tragic decision that may have cost Idaho murder victims their lives


Taken from the above article:
“Mortensen then ran to Funke's room on the first floor.

In a bombshell revelation, the judge's order described how Mortensen saw Kernodle's body on the floor on her way - mere minutes after coming face-to-face with the masked killer.

But Mortensen thought her roommate was drunk and carried on towards Funke's room, where they stayed until daylight.

'On her way, she noticed Xana lying on the floor of her bedroom, with her head towards the wall and her feet toward to the door. D.M. thought Xana was drunk,’ the records state.

Over the next eight hours, Mortensen's cellphone data shows she made several more texts and calls to her roommates, while also creating, editing and deleting images and videos, and accessing various social media sites including Instagram and Snapchat, court documents show.

On Snapchat, she used the Snapmap function to try to check Chapin and Kernodle's location.

With still no response from any of the four victims, at around 11.50am Mortensen called a friend and asked her to 'come over and check the house because she was scared,' the document states.

The friend E.A. and her boyfriend H.J. came to the home and met Mortensen and Funke at the bottom floor of the three-story house.

The two roommates and H.J. made their way to the second floor, where H.J. 'went to the kitchen to grab kitchen knife,' the document states.

According to the documents, Mortensen and Funke then saw Kernodle lying on the floor.

Mortensen testified to the grand jury that she saw Kernodle that time for a 'split second' and 'just started bawling because thought she had just like don't even know. thought maybe she was still just drunk and all asleep on the floor.'

At that moment, H.J. told the young women to 'get out' and they all went outside.

When H.J. emerged from the house soon after, he 'was pale white and mentioned something about someone being unconscious,' the document states.

He told them to call 911 and the distressing phone call was placed just before midday - around eight hours on from the murders.”
 
  • #108
Perhaps BK perceived a relationship where there was none. If their contact was all virtual, it could have been 100% professional on her end and BK could have overblown it in his head, mistaking a shared academic interest as intimate favor. Maybe in his mind, he was going to be her next BTK.

It would have been perhaps the first time in his life that he might have felt understood. Talking freely about murder. For the professor, past tense. For BK, future tense.

It does make me wonder if BK thought they were collaborating...

And that's who he was thinking of, when he asked if anyone else had been arrested.

BK was just completing his research project.

Only not on an iPad.

With a Kbar.

JMO


"I am told when Idaho quadruple homicide suspect Bryan Christopher Kohberger was in custody—he 'asked if anyone else was arrested.' I'm told he had a 'quiet, blank stare,'" Entin tweeted.



 
  • #109
Not at all. But think. Are you as capable of everything as well when drunk as you would be sober? The average person is not and attorneys love to jump on that. It's not the veracity of the person, it the veracity of the recollection, and it isn't the same thing. DM herself said she wasn't completely clear. And in a way, that isn't a bad thing. As an example, if someone said "At 4:19 I ran to the downstairs bedroom" and it was really 4:24, there are some who would pounce on that as if the person was lying, when really everything was so scary and it was after a long night with maybe a few too many drinks and they were just off a little on the time. Some attorneys may try and discredit due to something like that ( and sadly I see that happening from defense in this case), but most real people will see it for what it is, a person's recollection under stressful circumstances.

My own original point is that having extra evidence from other sources that say "Yeah, what she said." would go a long way to helping cement that anything else that was also said that has zero way to be corroborated (you can't get 'bushy eyebrows' from a location app) is also valid. Say DM says, "Had bushy eyebrows, was wearing black and went out the back door. I was so scared I texted BF (can be proven via texts people can see). Then I ran downstairs so I would not be alone (would be nice if it could be proven with location information that people could see)." If you have proof, that people can see, of two statements of 3, the third has more clout for the average person. JMO and why I hope they pull out all stops. Not that I think DM is a bad witness, I absolutely do not. But anything tangible that backs her up makes it easier on her and less likely for Defense to even try to discredit her.

Obviously JMO.
We do not know that DM was technically drunk at 4 am. She said she had been drinking, true. But she was obviously awake/coherent enough to hear sounds, not passed out drunk.

I don't believe there were toxicology tests done on the surviving roommates. She might have still been buzzed, but that is different than drunk to me. I think she was more confused than anything. I've been both buzzed and drunk and can remember things that happened around me at the time.

DM recalled BK's body type & approx height, what he was wearing, and his bushy eyebrows. That's a lot and I believe a jury will respond to that positively.

JMO
 
  • #110
Good grief. So people's veracity is in doubt because they identified an attacker in their personal home, but due to the fact the person had been drinking, which is perfectly legal, all testimony can be impeached?!

This has such huge implications. So basically we have have to be 100% sober at all times, in case we are witness to a crime?! In our own home?! Bah. Our criminal justice system is disgusting. We have become so convoluted that the law seems to protect criminals far more than victims.
I agree good grief. I don't believe DM's testimony will be impeached though, I think it will be substantiated by texts and phone movement. A big ole' nail in the coffin with all the other evidence the State has.

JMO
 
  • #111
Cannot track where you are walking in your house. The 2 witnesses can tell LE where exactly they were in the house.

2 Cents
Some can. It did in the Morphew case approx.(walls were in way) and in one case it showed a man who was wearing a Fitbit got up and went to the bathroom and back to bed. It's kinda freaky.
 
  • #112
IS JLR just really late to the story, or is this supposedly something different than the crime-scene scenario final paper we have known about for a long while? JMO
I think we'll find out at trial there is more of a connection between BK and Prof Ramsland than we've heard about so far. I've been dying to know if she was going to be called as a witness by the State. It looks like there is a good chance she may be.

JMO
 
  • #113
Updated list on motions:

State's Motions
Demonstrative Evidence--GRANTED
AT&T TARs--GRANTED (qualified regarding very brief voir dire outside presence of jury)
404(b) Traffic Stop--GRANTED (with noted redactions)
Alibi--DENIED (premature at this time)
Improper Death Penalty Comments--DENIED as unnecessary
Alternative Perpetrator--RESERVED (proof by 14 May)
Self-Authentication--RESERVED
Immediate Family Members in Court--GRANTED (family of victims) RESERVED (family of defendant)
Neuropsychological and Psychiatric--GRANTED in part, RESERVED in part
Text Messages--GRANTED in part, RESERVED in part
911 Call--GRANTED in part, DENIED in part, RESERVED in part

Defendant's Motions
Use of Terms Psychopath and Sociopath--GRANTED
Inflammatory Evidence--DENIED
Use of Term Murder--DENIED as unnecessary
Witness ID by Bushy Eyebrows--DENIED
Unnoticed 404(b) Evidence--DENIED
Amazon Click Activity--DENIED
Make and Model of Vehicle--DENIED
Statistical Analysis--DENIED
Vague and Undisclosed Expert Testimony--DENIED
Strike Death Penalty Based on ASD--DENIED
Strike Death Penalty and Adopt Other Necessary Procedures--DENIED
1RN and Use of Touch/Contact DNA--GRANTED in part/DENIED in part
Conditions as Aggravator--GRANTED in part/DENIED in part
Inconclusive Data--DENIED as moot/GRANTED as applied to question asked before Grand Jury

Both State and Defense made motions regarding IGG Evidence, but for different reasons. Motions were GRANTED.
I can't remember if I've thanked you for your recaps on pending Motions. So convenient, short and sweet, I've sent others to your posts when they've asked about pending Motions. So thank you @wendy44.
 
  • #114
Good grief. So people's veracity is in doubt because they identified an attacker in their personal home, but due to the fact the person had been drinking, which is perfectly legal, all testimony can be impeached?!

This has such huge implications. So basically we have have to be 100% sober at all times, in case we are witness to a crime?! In our own home?! Bah. Our criminal justice system is disgusting. We have become so convoluted that the law seems to protect criminals far more than victims.
Especially since she didn’t say anything outrageous & her description was on target.
 
  • #115
I think we'll find out at trial there is more of a connection between BK and Prof Ramsland than we've heard about so far. I've been dying to know if she was going to be called as a witness by the State. It looks like there is a good chance she may be.

JMO
Right. It may be. Just spitballing as mentioned before, he may have written a hypothetical detailed fictional account that mirrors the murder of Xana, Ethan, Kaylee and Maddy and she will be called to testifying to that and submitted that evidence , which shows MORE premeditation and how far back he was brainstorming it before putting it into action.

Sorry if this is redundant.

JMO
 
  • #116
Right. It may be. Just spitballing as mentioned before, he may have written a hypothetical detailed fictional account that mirrors the murder of Xana, Ethan, Kaylee and Maddy and she will be called to testifying to that and submitted that evidence , which shows MORE premeditation and how far back he was brainstorming it before putting it into action.

Sorry if this is redundant.

JMO
One of BK's sisters acted in low budget horror film about 4 students being killed. I wonder if that inspired him in some twisted way? Perhaps that was the sister that was on to BK's odd behavior and checked his car out as well?

Some major dysfunction in that family stemming from BK's actions I believe. They all suffered from them.

JMO
 
  • #117
With the latest info on Kaylee being struck in the face multiple times, I think it was so dark in there when BK reached over to stab someone in the bed that then when another girl popped up as was there, he just started flailing at her too probably trying to shut the second one up. I agree he probably struck her multiple times in the face with the butt of his knife at first.

Stabbing someone thru the chest or neck could knock the wind completely out of them quickly so he could have murdered/silenced/incapacitated Maddy pretty fast without making much noise. Then there was the next girl to deal with.

I don't think the face damage he did was specifically targeted against Maddy, he just acted to strike and silence her as quickly as possible.

It sickens me to think about how all of these innocent victims died. Slashed to death by a violent predator who couldn't socialize with anyone and who apparently hated women because they probably rejected him due to his creepiness.

If he is guilty as it seems and convicted, that SOB needs to pay the ultimate price or rot in jail.
 
  • #118
We do not know that DM was technically drunk at 4 am. She said she had been drinking, true. But she was obviously awake/coherent enough to hear sounds, not passed out drunk.

I don't believe there were toxicology tests done on the surviving roommates. She might have still been buzzed, but that is different than drunk to me. I think she was more confused than anything. I've been both buzzed and drunk and can remember things that happened around me at the time.

DM recalled BK's body type & approx height, what he was wearing, and his bushy eyebrows. That's a lot and I believe a jury will respond to that positively.

JMO

How's that going to look too the jury? As AT tries to suggest that DM's descriptions and recall can't be trusted (on account of alcohol), for being.... too accurate?!

We (jurors) might grant some latitude for errors in recall on account of alcohol, but when the witness is spot-on accurate? AT is not going to be able to undo that.

I wonder at what point AT might consider calling in sick for trial.

She's just go nowhere to go with this defendant.

JMO
 
  • #119
How's that going to look too the jury? As AT tries to suggest that DM's descriptions and recall can't be trusted (on account of alcohol), for being.... too accurate?!

We (jurors) might grant some latitude for errors in recall on account of alcohol, but when the witness is spot-on accurate? AT is not going to be able to undo that.

I wonder at what point AT might consider calling in sick for trial.

She's just go nowhere to go with this defendant.

JMO
Ha! Well ya know BK tried that!
 
  • #120
Dang, Hippler is coming in hot! He's not mincing words. This may seem like a boring order, but don't skip it---shooting down a lot of defense claims.

So that it doesn't get buried, I'm putting my favorite line first...it will show up later in the post in context:

"Rather, Defendant asked for "everything" and "everything" is what he received. Defendant cannot demand everything under the sun and then complain about the weight of all the planets."

Defense should consider themselves lucky Hippler said this in a file order instead of verbally, on camera, during a hearing. Because I'd try to disappear through the floor if that was said to me.
---------
"Because Defendant has failed to show a discovery violation or due process violation by the State, sanctions are not warranted. The Court further declines to require the State to provide further organizational assistance to Defendant."

footnote 4:
"Despite presenting this motion in briefing as a Brady violation, at the hearing on the motion Defendant confusingly requested that the Court view the motion "not as a Brady violation but as a due process violation[.]" However, Defendant appears to misapprehend the scope of his due process rights regarding discovery. "There is no general constitutional right to discovery in a criminal case." Weatherford v. Bursey, 429 U.S. 545, 559 (1977). In fact, "the Due Process Clause has little to say regarding the amount of discovery which the parties must be afforded... " Wardius v. Oregon, 412 U.S. 470, 474 (1973). Rather, it is Brady and its progeny that serve to uphold a criminal defendant's due process rights with regard to discovery. As the United States Supreme Court has explained, "[t}he Brady rule is based on the requirement of due process. Its purpose is not to displace the adversary system as the 2 primary means by which truth is uncovered, but to ensure that a miscarriage ofjustice does not occur." Bagley, 473 US. at 675. Thus, it is Brady that governs the Court's analysis of Defendant's alleged due process rights violation."

Nice of Judge Hippler to process the violation motion correctly, despite the defense presenting it wrong.

"Specifically, the State contends that most of the data is from cell phone extractions and weeks of surveillance video footage throughout the Moscow area obtained following the homicides. It affirmed on the record that it is unaware of any Brady material in those videos other than those specifically identified in motion practice and otherwise throughout the case. Further, the State's experts who reviewed the various devices (including cell phones) and other digital data have disclosed opinions that they found no connection between Defendant and the victims from the devices and data."

Defense said they wanted everything so that they could try to make an alibi. They got everything.

"The State also notes that since this case began over two years ago, it has continuously turned over to Defendant all the information it received from the various investigating agencies in the same format as the information was received by the State."

footnote 6:
"The State explained that all the evidence in this case was routed to it from the various investigating agencies. Once received, the State would copy it and then place it directly on Defendant's server in the same fashion and format it was received. The State has maintained its files in that same format"

"State points out that on September 4, 2024-at approximately the same time as its discovery deadline it provided Defendant with a 320-page index identifying the location of requested discovery, a description ofthe evidence, and the date discovered. In addition, all of the evidence received from the FBI which comprises the majority-was provided to Defendant with a searchable index."

footnote 7
"In his reply, Defendant asserted that the State utilizes an pensive, technologically powerful case management software program called "Prosecutor by Karpel" which has a global search function to search all discovery and case documents at one time, generate reports from such searches and automatically transcribe audio and video files. Because he does not have access to similar technology, Defendant disputes he is on the same playing field as the State. However, at the hearing, the State disputed its evidence software program has any ofthese features. Instead, the prosecutors rely on a self-created spreadsheet to identify and manage discovery."
"First, while neither Brady nor ICR 16 prescribe the form discovery must take, it is well settled under federal law that there is no direct obligation for the government to identify or itemize Brady material for the defense."

"The State received the information from its investigating agencies, labeled the materials and turned them over to Defendant through a shared access drive in the same format as received. This method not only puts the State and Defendant on equal footing regarding discovery review, it also
serves the important purpose of protecting against claims of missing or manipulated documents if the State puts them in a different format or organization or otherwise conveys them to Defendant in a different manner than received. While the State acknowledges that much ofthe discovery is "completely irrelevant," including surveillance videos and data from the numerous phones, computers and other devises, it did not produce it for purposes of padding the file or otherwise attempting, in bad faith, to hide Brady information in its haystack of information. Rather, Defendant asked for "everything" and "everything" is what he received. Defendant cannot demand everything under the sun and then complain about the weight of all the planets."
*slow claps* Sir, I bow to you!

"In addition, Defendant's complaints of being unable to meaningfully review the discovery ring hollow. Defendant has been receiving discovery in the same manner for over two years. In that time, he has not once sought a remedy from this Court to regulate discovery, such as requiring the State to provide discovery in a different format. He has not sought additional resources under ICR 12.2 to hire additional staff to review discovery or obtain litigation document control software to help organize and sort the evidence. His lead counsel insisted that she be allowed to take on a second high-profile capital case despite the voluminous discovery in this case.'° Further, at oral argument, lead counsel indicated that her practice is to personally review all the discovery herself, rather than rely on associates and staff to review materials to cut through the less relevant information and point to what materials need review by lead counsel.
These actions are not indicative of an overburdened defense team. In fact, it is evident Defendant has been able to capably navigate the discovery given his more than robust motion practice, the scope and breadth of the experts retained and the disclosures filed"

In other words--if you are so overburdened, why are you spending endless hours filing ridiculous motions (not all of them are) and insisting that only 1 person can go through the discovery despite that person also having another death penalty case. Ouch!
I betcha he is ready to tear his hair out with defense attorneys frivolous desperate motions. Probably goes home and expresses his feelings to his wife-----
 
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