4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #106

[Megnut]

There's a great book out there, The Sociopath Next Door. Ramsland should have considered reading the unwritten one, The Psychopath in your Class.

Most of the student studying criminal psychology want to understand the minds of criminals in order to prevent murder. And sitting right in the middle of that, you have BK who was itching to commit one.

It's hard to get one's mind around that. Thankfully.

We think the scene got out of control, he panicked, fled because mostly we probably can't imagine anything but that, but I'm not sure BK has the capacity for any of that. He may have found it, even if he hadn't planned on four murders, to be surprisingly easy, might have been quite full of himself, only speeding away because he'd realized in retrospect DM had seen him or he thought the barking dog might draw attention or he was in a natural hurry to dispose of his kill kit, get home and wait for the big news to break.

I hate that he gets to relive it in the courtroom and in his head. Frankly, I wish they'd fit him up with a special rack belt and if his heart rate goes up by even one as the trail progresses, zap him. And one convicted, I wish the judge could order the surgical removal of all crime related images from BK's brain.

JMO

 

[Warwick7]

IMHO, the position KG was in would have made it very hard for him to actually have access to the front of her throat. She would have been in the process of sitting up, up against the corner of the walls--in that position your head is usually curled forward somewhat. Once he actually started attacking her, the natural instinct, IMHO, is to curl further inward to protect your vulnerable areas. Unless he was able to (and sorry for this image) grab her by the hair and pull her head back, he really wouldn't have had good access to her neck until after he had subdued her with some blows.

And this is exactly where my mind went last night.

Even if she was in the "process of sitting up, up against the corner of the walls--in that position your head is usually curled forward somewhat" he could stab her arms or legs....BUT that is not going to stop her from screaming. He punched and pounded her with the butt of that knife M00 to stop her mouth.

 

[detectivewannab]

I’ve been doing some research on homicide by stabbing and came across forensic science article at link below which has some interesting and informative info. Article is rather lengthy, includes type of stab wounds, type of weapons, manner and cause of stabbing death etc., etc. I snipped a couple parts out as they’ve been ongoing recent topics of speculation and discussion r/t one perp/one weapon, amount of visible blood etc. ***A warning that some parts/descriptions in the article are graphic.

Snipped & BBM from article (with a couple of my comments added underneath paragraphs):

Weapon dimensions:
“A single weapon can produce a series of wounds encompassing a wide range of skin-surface lengths and wound depths. This is often seen in a multiple stabbing fatality and is consistent with the use of only one weapon.”
“However, it is rarely possible to exclude any speculative suggestion of more than one weapon, and, by inference, more than one assailant.”

**IMO r/t the purple bolded above is pretty much what AT & Co. have suggested/speculated, that
more than one weapon was possibly used/more than one assailant possibly involved. At the hearing a few weeks ago, AT mentioned having a tip/lead on alternate/other suspect. And previously Judge H had said that he will not allow speculation about other/alternate suspect(s), that AT & Co. needs to bring/show facts/evidence if such exists before the court by iirc May 14th. Let’s just say hypothetically for argument’s sake, AT’s tip/lead pans out and she has found and collected evidence of an alternate/other suspect, imo it would not exonerate BK as based on all known facts and evidence numerous LE agencies and the state has against him, imo BK cannot be separated from this horrific crime so
it would have to be a co-conspirator.
IOW, instead of TODDI (This Other Dude Did It), it would have to be BKATDDI (Bryan Kohberger And This Dude Did It). Not saying that I believe BK had help at all just positing a hypothetical based on AT saying she has a tip/lead on an alternate suspect and Judge telling her she needs to present evidence to the court if it exists. I personally think BK did the crime all alone and that AT & Co. have nothing, are desperate and throwing up smoke and mirrors. If anything, I expect her to ask for a continuance/delay but Judge H seems to have made clear he wants trial to stay on track for August 11th, so I don’t really see him allowing the D more time to chase down a lead on some alternate phantom perp aka
a lead that goes absolutely nowhere/nonexistent alternate perp. I could be wrong, we’ll have to wait and see what happens at next court hearing in May.

Collapse and death:
“A lethal injury can lie beneath the most trivial looking skin wound, emphasizing the fact that the primary characteristic of a stab wound is its depth. Stab wounds kill mainly as a result of hemorrhage, which is usually internal rather than external. Indeed, there may be little bleeding onto the skin and clothing in a fatal stabbing.
Whereas the loss of a large volume of blood will clearly account for death, a much smaller blood loss, of about one liter, may have a fatal outcome if it occurs very rapidly”…

**IMO It’s very disturbing to think about what these four precious souls, KG, MM, XK, EC, last moments on earth were like. I’m glad MM was heavily intoxicated and likely sleeping, never woke up to realize what was happening, and hopefully same for EC as has been speculated. Poor KG and XK were aware/somewhat aware what was happening but even if just for a little bit, it’s harrowing to imagine the fear and terror they likely felt in their last moments on earth. Regardless of who was awake/aware of what was happening or not, it’s just so sad and heartbreaking that four beautiful, innocent lives with so
much promise were taken from this world so brutally and violently
by an evil madman lunatic.

Stab Wound - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics

Kaylee, Maddie, Xana, Ethan,
you did not deserve this,
justice is coming soon. xo

IMHOO

If he punched Kaylee the knife had to be put down. I think this is how he left the sheath. What a coward.

 

[Kudzuu]

Remember in the Murdaugh trial his cell could count his steps. And in the Delphi, Liberty's phone could count steps up and down (or was it feet) and at what time.

Iirc they could tell the elevation change coming from the creek up to the flat secluded area they were killed. I think it was based on number of steps taken to move a distance horizontally. Hope that makes sense

 

[Cool Cats]

Idaho judge slams Bryan Kohberger's 'hollow' attempt to dodge death penalty in latest blow to defense

Judge Steven Hippler denied a motion on Tuesday from Bryan Kohberger's defense team that asked to remove the death penalty as a possible punishment.

www.yahoo.com

VERY INTERESTING
(maybe AT is not so stellar after all?)

Kohberger's defense team presented the motion to strike the death penalty, arguing that the discovery has been both voluminous and unorganized so Kohberger was unable to meaningfully review and investigate the evidence.

Judge Steven Hippler said the assertations "ring hollow."

1.) BK has been receiving discovery in the same manner for over two years.
2.) BK has not sought additional resources…such as staff or litigation document control software.

3.) Anne Taylor insisted that she be allowed to take on a second high-profile capital case despite the voluminous discovery in this case.

4.) AT indicated that her practice is to personally review all the discovery herself, rather than rely on associates and staff to review materials to cut through the less relevant information.

 

[Megnut]

If he punched Kaylee the knife had to be put down. I think this is how he left the sheath. What a coward.

Coward absolutely. There's no nobility in a knife fight against defenseless victims.

And actually, KG's injuries -- as wicked as they were -- are consistent with how the sheath was found, but not because he put the knife down. I think he never put it down.

IMO THIS waa the crime he came to commit -- kill one woman in her bed. Remove knife from sheath, one on each hand Enter her room, acclimate to ambient light, stab her -- once, twice. Neck, abdomen -- liver up toward the lungs. Survey the damage, return knife to sheath, exit.

But KG was there and he hadn't prepared for that. The first part was the same but IMO it veered when he had to lean across MM to reach K (was it a twin size bed?). To do so, he would have needed leverage, from the hand holding the sheath, likely he palmed it against the bed, and then in shifting his focus to KG, it shifted away from the sheath.

I wonder if KG's sitting up was actually more an instinctive move to throw herself across MM to protect her, which could account for a pommel to the face as BK reverse thrust the knife, the force of which would not be insignificant.

We'll no doubt learn that her injuries are consistent with one or both ends of a Kbar.

Bet it was 60 seconds, start to finish.

Brutal.

JMO

 

[jepop]

Idaho judge slams Bryan Kohberger's 'hollow' attempt to dodge death penalty in latest blow to defense

Judge Steven Hippler denied a motion on Tuesday from Bryan Kohberger's defense team that asked to remove the death penalty as a possible punishment.

www.yahoo.com

VERY INTERESTING
(maybe AT is not so stellar after all?)

Kohberger's defense team presented the motion to strike the death penalty, arguing that the discovery has been both voluminous and unorganized so Kohberger was unable to meaningfully review and investigate the evidence.

Judge Steven Hippler said the assertations "ring hollow."

1.) BK has been receiving discovery in the same manner for over two years.
2.) BK has not sought additional resources…such as staff or litigation document control software.

3.) Anne Taylor insisted that she be allowed to take on a second high-profile capital case despite the voluminous discovery in this case.

4.) AT indicated that her practice is to personally review all the discovery herself, rather than rely on associates and staff to review materials to cut through the less relevant information.

On point 4, why would AT run the work load this way? Micro managing is neither efficient or good for establishing effective team work. Especially in this case, it seems a poor approach to take. Team work and trust in other team members works better. Imo

 

[Cool Cats]

On point 4, why would AT run the work load this way? Micro managing is neither efficient or good for establishing effective team work. Especially in this case, it seems a poor approach to take. Team work and trust in other team members works better. Imo

Yes. This is not right. I would not be happy with my lead defense attorney - after over 2 years - complaining that she hasn't fully been able to review the evidence against me that MIGHT SEND ME TO DEATH ROW.

My 2 Cents that this is outrageous after more than 2 years and AT DID NOT HAVE TO TAKE ON ANOTHER HIGH PROFILE CAPITAL CASE.

 

[Warwick7]

Coward absolutely. There's no nobility in a knife fight against defenseless victims.

And actually, KG's injuries -- as wicked as they were -- are consistent with how the sheath was found, but not because he put the knife down. I think he never put it down.

IMO THIS waa the crime he came to commit -- kill one woman in her bed. Remove knife from sheath, one on each hand Enter her room, acclimate to ambient light, stab her -- once, twice. Neck, abdomen -- liver up toward the lungs. Survey the damage, return knife to sheath, exit.

But KG was there and he hadn't prepared for that. The first part was the same but IMO it veered when he had to lean across MM to reach K (was it a twin size bed?). To do so, he would have needed leverage, from the hand holding the sheath, likely he palmed it against the bed, and then in shifting his focus to KG, it shifted away from the sheath.

I wonder if KG's sitting up was actually more an instinctive move to throw herself across MM to protect her, which could account for a pommel to the face as BK reverse thrust the knife, the force of which would not be insignificant.

We'll no doubt learn that her injuries are consistent with one or both ends of a Kbar.

Bet it was 60 seconds, start to finish.

Brutal.

JMO

If she instinctively curved her body and covered her face, we then, at trial are going to hear about her hands and forearms. Maybe bruises, sprains, broken bones.....

 

[Warwick7]

On point 4, why would AT run the work load this way? Micro managing is neither efficient or good for establishing effective team work. Especially in this case, it seems a poor approach to take. Team work and trust in other team members works better. Imo

Exactly! The old adage, if you want it done do it yourself, shows an unskilled, ill fit atty.

 

[jepop]

Yes. This is not right. I would not be happy with my lead defense attorney - after over 2 years - complaining that she hasn't fully been able to review the evidence against me that MIGHT SEND ME TO DEATH ROW.

My 2 Cents that this is outrageous after more than 2 years and AT DID NOT HAVE TO TAKE ON ANOTHER HIGH PROFILE CAPITAL CASE.

Yes, these were not plausible reasons to offer in court and like you say, they also make her appear not so stellar. They could even end up being appellate issues in the future?!

The other thing that annoys me about AT offering up micro-managing/non delegating as a reason for allegedly not being able to get through discovery, is that it's a moot point, right,?

She can't blame the state because of her alleged decision to not delegate the work load but instead insist on seeing everything herself. Her management decisions on the case are on her. Jmo

 

[fcavanaugh]

Yes. This is not right. I would not be happy with my lead defense attorney - after over 2 years - complaining that she hasn't fully been able to review the evidence against me that MIGHT SEND ME TO DEATH ROW.

My 2 Cents that this is outrageous after more than 2 years and AT DID NOT HAVE TO TAKE ON ANOTHER HIGH PROFILE CAPITAL CASE.

I completely agree @Cool Cats.
For a lead Defense Attorney of AT’s caliber to tell/complain to the court that she doesn’t have enough time to go through discovery and doesn’t want help/delegate tasks to other staff members because she wants to go through all discovery herself, and in the meantime has agreed to take on representation of another high profile DP case, makes absolutely zero sense. Take on another serious DP case when you’re complaining to the court you haven’t even had time to go through the current case you’re representing???? This does not add up and comes off as a stall tactic to me.

I’m glad Judge Hippler has called AT out over this in open court documenting suggestions to her to hire a few more legal professionals/Paralegals to help, and in his writing that her argument rings hollow. It absolutely does ring hollow and not a good look for AT, to say the absolute least.

I’m glad Judge Hippler has been/is putting all of this in the record and being very detailed in his reasoning and explanations outlining his decision/s for his rulings because I can definitely see this particular issue coming up as potential issue on appeal i.e., BK claiming ineffective counsel. Grrrrrrrrr.

IMHOO

ETA-clarification

 

[Warwick7]

Yes, these were not plausible reasons to offer in court and like you say, they also make her appear not so stellar. They could even end up being appellate issues in the future?!

The other thing that annoys me about AT offering up micro-managing/non delegating as a reason for allegedly not being able to get through discovery, is that it's a moot point, right,?

She can't blame the state because of her alleged decision to not delegate the work load but instead insist on seeing everything herself. Her management decisions on the case are on her. Jmo

And to think, she wanted the prosecution sanctioned....

 

[Justice101]

And actually, KG's injuries -- as wicked as they were -- are consistent with how the sheath was found, but not because he put the knife down. I think he never put it down.

IMO THIS waa the crime he came to commit -- kill one woman in her bed. Remove knife from sheath, one on each hand Enter her room, acclimate to ambient light, stab her -- once, twice. Neck, abdomen -- liver up toward the lungs. Survey the damage, return knife to sheath, exit.

But KG was there and he hadn't prepared for that. The first part was the same but IMO it veered when he had to lean across MM to reach K (was it a twin size bed?). To do so, he would have needed leverage, from the hand holding the sheath, likely he palmed it against the bed, and then in shifting his focus to KG, it shifted away from the sheath.

I wonder if KG's sitting up was actually more an instinctive move to throw herself across MM to protect her, which could account for a pommel to the face as BK reverse thrust the knife, the force of which would not be insignificant.

We'll no doubt learn that her injuries are consistent with one or both ends of a Kbar.

Bet it was 60 seconds, start to finish.

Brutal.

JMO

Very well thought out @Megnut.

thank you!

 

[Arkay]

Yes. This is not right. I would not be happy with my lead defense attorney - after over 2 years - complaining that she hasn't fully been able to review the evidence against me that MIGHT SEND ME TO DEATH ROW.

Exactly! The old adage, if you want it done do it yourself, shows an unskilled, ill fit atty.

She can't blame the state because of her alleged decision to not delegate the work load but instead insist on seeing everything herself. Her management decisions on the case are on her. Jmo

I’m glad Judge Hippler is putting this all in the record in his detailed reasoning and explanations outlining decisions for his rulings because I can definitely see this coming up as potential issue on appeal i.e., BK claiming ineffective counsel. Grrrrrrrrr

Yes to all of this.

My fiancé, (Judge Hippler to the rest of you) , is IMO making certain to highlight this continual back and forth—AT says there is such a monumental amount of evidence to peruse that she cannot keep up, yet she categorically refuses help from her team as she wants to be the one to do it all.

PLUS accepting another DP case when she’s allegedly overwhelmed by the case she already has in hand.

My hope is that on appeal, when/if it states ineffective counsel, the judge’s VERY CLEAR, pinpoint, laser focus on AT simultaneously complaining of too much to deal with, while refusing assistance, will void any hope of a successful appeal in this area.

Or, God forbid, could this be some devious ploy on the part of AT? Things aren’t going well for the defense, so she hopes BK appeals on grounds of ineffective counsel and gets a new trial?

Even as I type that I can’t see it being accurate. No lawyer in a notorious case wants to be considered a failure.

JMO

 

[jepop]

And to think, she wanted the prosecution sanctioned....

Yeah, a touch of the crazy making there, but it didn't pass Hippler's smell test!

 

[SteveP]

And this is exactly where my mind went last night.

Even if she was in the "process of sitting up, up against the corner of the walls--in that position your head is usually curled forward somewhat" he could stab her arms or legs....BUT that is not going to stop her from screaming. He punched and pounded her with the butt of that knife M00 to stop her mouth.

I had not really given this a lot of thought, but your suggestion that he punched and pounded her with the butt of the knife to stop her mouth may very well be spot on, even to the extent that any serious blow to the face could result in a broken nose. He may very well have hit her in the mouth with the butt of the knife, to keep her from screaming. I will not be surprised to learn at trial that KG had several teeth knocked out, and that her broken nose was perhaps the result to one or more blows to the mouth. JMO

 

[jepop]

Yes to all of this.

My fiancé, (Judge Hippler to the rest of you) , is IMO making certain to highlight this continual back and forth—AT says there is such a monumental amount of evidence to peruse that she cannot keep up, yet she categorically refuses help from her team as she wants to be the one to do it all.

PLUS accepting another DP case when she’s allegedly overwhelmed by the case she already has in hand.

My hope is that on appeal, when/if it states ineffective counsel, the judge’s VERY CLEAR, pinpoint, laser focus on AT simultaneously complaining of too much to deal with, while refusing assistance, will void any hope of a successful appeal in this area.

Or, God forbid, could this be some devious ploy on the part of AT? Things aren’t going well for the defense, so she hopes BK appeals on grounds of ineffective counsel and gets a new trial?

Even as I type that I can’t see it being accurate. No lawyer in a notorious case wants to be considered a failure.

JMO

Let me know if your fiance suddenly becomes not your fiance huh?

 

[Arkay]

Let me know if your fiance suddenly becomes not your fiance huh?

Of course—-he will no longer be my fiancé once he becomes my husband!

 

[Warwick7]

I had not really given this a lot of thought, but your suggestion that he punched and pounded her with the butt of the knife to stop her mouth may very well be spot on, even to the extent that any serious blow to the face could result in a broken nose. He may very well have hit her in the mouth with the butt of the knife, to keep her from screaming. I will not be surprised to learn at trial that KG had several teeth knocked out, and that her broken nose was perhaps the result to one or more blows to the mouth. JMO

Another thing......

In quite alot of domestic violence, after the male punches the mouth, (once or more) the next anger movement is to choke the other person. We've seen it time and time again. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised we find out her hyoid bone is broken or we hear about bruising around her neck. M00

PS....SG did say BK did other things to Kaylee.