4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #106

[Sachi]

With the strength of the case they have against BK, I see no reason at all, at this point, for the state to initiate a plea bargain, nor do I see them negotiating the removal of the death penalty. I believe the only way the state would offer a deal to take the death penalty off the table would be if BK admitted full guilt, took the stand, under oath, and described exactly what he did, produced the knife, and exhibited real remorse., of which he has none. A plea deal ain't happenin', imo. This case is finally on a fast track to Aug 11, and then justice is coming for Maddie, Kaylee, Xana and Ethan. JMO

This , BAM!

 

[Cool Cats]

With the strength of the case they have against BK, I see no reason at all, at this point, for the state to initiate a plea bargain, nor do I see them negotiating the removal of the death penalty. I believe the only way the state would offer a deal to take the death penalty off the table would be if BK admitted full guilt, took the stand, under oath, and described exactly what he did, produced the knife, and exhibited real remorse., of which he has none. A plea deal ain't happenin', imo. This case is finally on a fast track to Aug 11, and then justice is coming for Maddie, Kaylee, Xana and Ethan. JMO

Good point. I think you could be right, that it wouldn't be enough for BK to plead guilty, that the prosecution would also insist on BK giving testimony about his crimes, give detail. This is usually done in private with the prosecutor interviewing the defendant.

In public, the defendant must plead guilty before the judge. Then there is a hearing scheduled for sentencing where the prosecution makes their case for LWOP and the defense tries to get the possibility of parole.

Then comes all the victim impact statements and finally the actual sentence.

2 Cents

 

[Ghostwheel]

They are indeed. One is almost certainly a lie. The other is almost certainly wishful thinking. JMO

The fact that he has not verbally himself pled "Not Guilty" and that he has said he believes he will be exonerated speaks volumes to me that he is guilty and thinks he can get off on some kind of "reasonable doubt". His not saying the words "Not Guilty" would mean a lot to me as a juror.

Are the jurors privy to how the plea was entered? Does anyone know?

 

[Warwick7]

 

[Cool Cats]

BK was a graduate student when he bought the knife, he was in the final semester of studying for his Master's degree.

With regard to choosing WSU because he was following someone on social media from that area, I seriously doubt that was the case. A person doesn't get many offers to choose from when they apply for a PhD in their field of choice with a TA position and stipend. Many of these PhD programs admit only a small amount of doctoral students and so most applicants don't get very many offers.

What most likely happened is that BK chose the best PHD program for himself personally, and then went on to search for potential victims who were attending the University of Idaho - within easy driving distance.

It is very likely he could have been searching for U of I coeds while he was still living in Pennsylvania.

The victims had a strong SM presence and were not all new freshmen. Their photos and information were all out there.

I think he could easily have targeted MM from afar.

2 Cents

 

[Ghostwheel]

Wow. 10-16 minutes of missing time. Plenty of time to disappear a bundle of incriminating evidence.

 

[Sundog]

What most likely happened is that BK chose the best PHD program for himself personally, and then went on to search for potential victims who were attending the University of Idaho - within easy driving distance.

It is very likely he could have been searching for U of I coeds while he was still living in Pennsylvania.

The victims had a strong SM presence and were not all new freshmen. Their photos and information were all out there.

I think he could easily have targeted MM from afar.

2 Cents

It's definitely possible that after he applied to WSU and either before he he heard back from them - or after he was accepted into their program - he began to search social media in that area while still in Pennsylvania.

ebm

 

[Megnut]

Anybody see a plea deal coming? AT is exhausting all avenues. Denial after denial after…..

AT is running out of time and leverage. Won’t b a good scene for her at trial.

Waiting and watching. BK is cooked.

MOO

AT said BK doesn't grasp the severity of the charges (i.e. strength of evidence), but he's not cognitively impaired. He grasps it; he just doesn't care.

The obvious choice, when his DNA is on a sheath to a weapon he purchased which corresponds to the manner of homicide, is to plead guilty in exchange for dropping the DP, if the State were willing to accept it. Two years ago, in exchange for the time, trauma and expense might have been satisfactory. 4 LWOPs, he wouldn't be a free man ever. And accursed in prison so likely destined for segregation. Without appeal.

I think BK said no. And continues to say it. Despite the volume of denied motions. AT is likely finding he cannot be reasoned with, like talking to a brick wall because you think it has ears.

Maybe he's saying he's innocent, maybe he's saying he'll be exonerated, maybe he's standing silent because he is stubborn, rigid, unyielding, always right, disinterested in being reasonable.

Tell him to adjust his unending grading system and he'll respond by refusing to grade at all. He is all four horsemen.

JMO

 

[detectivewannab]

I don't know that we need credit BK with great evilgenius, but knowing that he studied the likes of the murderers you mention, I think the element they all share is the gaming. His ghoulish selfie speaks to that. Who can write or play the most memorable kill/s. BK looks like he's giving himself the big win, like he's tops on the murder leaderboard.

IMO he wasn't horrified with what he had done, horrified that he left four victims dead, I truly think he was proud. Winning. Four murders in under fourteen minutes, like a record to beat. And maybe it was. If his intention was to murder one victim and then a series of them, he got quite the jump on that.

Getting inside the mind of a killer (no thanks) requires the adoption of an upside down moral code. We can call BK moral but make no mistake -- he has a moral code. Bet it's rigid as hell. It's just inconceivable to most of us because it's opposite day. Killing is an accomplishment. Justice is murder. One person slights him, he makes all people pay. Not his fault he's so smart and everyone else is so dumb. Crosswalks are stupid. Cops are stupid. She's stupid. He would be a cop if cops weren't so stupid. There's a logic to his thinking, even if it's simultaneously defies it. I think he thinks he can do no wrong. Despite evidence to the contrary which he simply rejects.

JMO

So a murder can not profit from writing a book. Can a family member of theirs?

 

[SteveP]

So a murder can not profit from writing a book. Can a family member of theirs?

If you mean, can his sister profit from writing a book, sure, why shouldn't she be able to? She didn't murder four people, and if it is the sister that I think may write one, she may actually have helped put BK away when all is said and done. His family members are not responsible for the actions of their 28-year-old son and brother. They are yet more victims of his heinous acts. I would read a book that his siter writes before I would read anything about this case that Howard Blum wrote or writes. JMO

 

[detectivewannab]

I think the main plan is to get the DP dismissed and then go to trial.

If this doesn't work, the second plan could be to have BK plead guilty to all 5 charges and then in return the State drops the DP.

Anything can happen at trial. Look at OJ, Casey Anthony, and it's looking like Karen Read is getting off. However I think in this case we have only seen a small part of the evidence.

 

[al66pine]

.dbm

 

[al66pine]

Murderers. Writing/Selling Their Stories, Can't Profit?

So a murder can not profit from writing a book. Can a family member of theirs?

@detectivewannab
^That^ is a verrry broad stmt.
If referring to "Son of Sam" type laws, re the convicted persons writing/selling, imo it depends.

Short explanation:

Son of Sam law - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Tedious Detail Alert for longer explanation, from a 2022 law review article:
"Making A Constitutional “Son of Sam” Law: Netflix’s Booming True Crime Business"

"On their face, “Son of Sam” laws seem like logical laws to be implemented in every state. However, the water becomes muddier when you factor in the First Amendment guarantee of freedom of speech."

"The state of New York enacted the original “Son of Sam” law in 1977 to prevent criminals such as David Berkowitz from profiting by selling their stories. The law allowed New York’s crime board to seize convicted felons’ money earned from entertainment deals to help compensate their victims. However, David Berkowitz would never have the law, that derives its colloquial name from him, implemented against him."

In 1991, the US Supreme Court "ruled that New York’s “Son of Sam” law was unconstitutional in Simon & Schuster v.Crimes Victims Board...."

Other states ".... enacted laws modeled after New York’s “Son of Sam” law that were held constitutional in some state courts."

"Statutes in California and Nevada... were ruled unconstitutional by their respective state supreme courts. The over forty-year attempt to create a constitutional “Son of Sam” law has been a valiant effort put forth by states with New York leading the charge."

"Preventing criminals from profiting from their crimes is a just cause to fight, but in doing so it gives states the power to silence those individuals that stand up to the grave injustices that inhabit the United States. States should turn their focus to enacting statutes that encompass the second half ofthe current New York “Son of Sam” statute which allows victims to go after “funds of a convicted person.” This provision has no First Amendment issue...."
bbm ubm
______________________________________
From a Hastings Constitutional Law Quarterly Article, 2-2022

https://repository.uclawsf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2148&context=hastings_constitutional_law_quaterly

 

[Boxer]

If you mean, can his sister profit from writing a book, sure, why shouldn't she be able to? She didn't murder four people, and if it is the sister that I think may write one, she may actually have helped put BK away when all is said and done. His family members are not responsible for the actions of their 28-year-old son and brother. They are yet more victims of his heinous acts. I would read a book that his siter writes before I would read anything about this case that Howard Blum wrote or writes. JMO

Agree. They have been pulled into this by their brother committing a profound injustice by violently taking 4 innocent lives.

 

[al66pine]

Family Members, Writing/Selling, & Profiting?

If you mean, can his sister profit from writing a book, sure, why shouldn't she be able to? She didn't murder four people, and if it is the sister that I think may write one, she may actually have helped put BK away when all is said and done. His family members are not responsible for the actions of their 28-year-old son and brother. They are yet more victims of his heinous acts. I would read a book that his siter writes before I would read anything about this case that Howard Blum wrote or writes. JMO

@SteveP
Joining you in preferring to read a (hypothetical/rumored-ATM) book written by BK's sister, over Blum's book, even w trial & post-trial updates.

Family members writing/selling?
This ¶ from wiki contains the caution "This claim needs references to reliable sources" so I'm keeping my salt shaker nearby.
FWIW
"In certain cases, a Son of Sam law can be extended beyond the criminals themselves to include friends, neighbors, and family members of the lawbreaker who seek to profit by telling publishers and filmmakers of their relation to the criminal. In other cases, a person may not financially benefit from the sale of a story or any other mementos pertaining to the crime.[<em><a href="Wikipedia:Citation needed - Wikipedia" title="Wikipedia:Citation needed"><span title="This claim needs references to reliable sources. (August 2018)">citation needed</span></a></em>]"

Son of Sam law - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

ETA: I did not search for any specific state laws on the matter.

 

[MassGuy]

I didn't watch tonight's Dateline, but apparently they aired an ad for a new episode on this case to air next Friday.

 

[Sundog]

Early on this was discussed and we wondered about the BTK book with Ramsland as an example. In that case, it sounded like BTK did not profit but his co-author, Catherine Ramsland, and the families of the victims worked with a lawyer to develop a contract where Ramsland would get 25% of any profit/royalties and the victims' families would get 75% and also they would have some say regarding the final product. There may be more information in this paywalled article, but I don't have access to it now, I just looked back to posts made on this forum in September 2023 when we were discussing it then.

The Serial Killer’s Co-Author (Published 2016)

Katherine Ramsland has written many books on macabre subjects, but her latest volume takes a startling new form: a collaboration that lets a notorious murderer — Dennis Rader, a.k.a. the ‘B.T.K. Killer’ — tell his own story.

www.nytimes.com

EBM

 

[Arkay]

Early on this was discussed and we wondered about the BTK book with Ramsland as an example. In that case, it sounded like BTK did not profit but his co-author, Catherine Ramsland, and the families of the victims worked with a lawyer to develop a contract where Ramsland would get 25% of any profit/royalties and the victims' families would get 75% and also they would have some say regarding the final product. There may be more information in this paywalled article, but I don't have access to it now, I just looked back to posts made on this forum in September 2023 when we were discussing it then.

The Serial Killer’s Co-Author (Published 2016)

Katherine Ramsland has written many books on macabre subjects, but her latest volume takes a startling new form: a collaboration that lets a notorious murderer — Dennis Rader, a.k.a. the ‘B.T.K. Killer’ — tell his own story.

www.nytimes.com

EBM

https://www.reuters.com/article/lifestyle/corrected-goldman-family-gets-rights-to-oj-simpson-book-idUSPAR100103/

I know this isn’t exactly what’s been discussed, as it is the victim’s family that eventually made a profit here.

Of course legally O.J. Simpson was also found not guilty.

However, when O.J. wrote his “hypothetical” book, If I Did It, detailing how he would have killed Nicole Simpson and Ron Goldman “if he had killed them,” Fred Goldman was able to sue and get most of the rights to the book, just to prevent O.J. from making money off their murders.

Which IMO was the right thing to do, and the only fragment of justice they ever received.

 

[al66pine]

Thanks @Sundog for your post a few notches up re Ramsland's book on Kansas based BTK.



Please

Any NYT subscriber here who might be able to give the article cited above as a "gift" article?
(terminology?)
Or maybe copy and paste a ¶ specifically about terms of contract.

Thank you.

 

[mickey2942]

If BK was smart, he would take an "Alford Plea". And call it done.

Alford plea - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That is what I thought CD should have done.

But, after watching CD, and LVD's trial, they seem to have been relishing the attention of the trials. That is some strange mental health issue, not even diagnosed or identified. The Waukesha Christmas Parade massacre dude, he seemed to be excited during his trial, on fire with some manic energy.