4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #106

[Boxer]

If BK was smart, he would take an "Alford Plea". And call it done.

Alford plea - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That is what I thought CD should have done.

But, after watching CD, and LVD's trial, they seem to have been relishing the attention of the trials. That is some strange mental health issue, not even diagnosed or identified. The Waukesha Christmas Parade massacre dude, he seemed to be excited during his trial, on fire with some manic energy.

Exactly. The trial provides so much attention, full reviewing photos of the crime and anguish of families.

 

[mickey2942]

Exactly. The trial provides so much attention, full reviewing photos of the crime and anguish of families.

Like Ted Bundy. Too bad we didn't have "Court TV" back then. That trial would have been amazing to watch.

Ted Bundy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I think BK studied different crimes, and I wouldn't be surprised if BK was emulating the "Sorority House" massacre in Florida, by Ted Bundy. The difference being, that BK did not rape his victims.

 

[iamshadow21]

Like Ted Bundy. Too bad we didn't have "Court TV" back then. That trial would have been amazing to watch.

Ted Bundy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I think BK studied different crimes, and I wouldn't be surprised if BK was emulating the "Sorority House" massacre in Florida, by Ted Bundy. The difference being, that BK did not rape his victims.

It was one of the first trials televised, that's why we have film footage of it.

MOO

 

[gremlin444]

To be honest, I don't think BK gets any pleasure from the families' anguish.

I think the pleasure he gets from the trial is getting to watch the whole criminal justice practice from the inside. To see how the investigation and trial unfold and compare them to ones he studied in his coursework. To take pride in parts of it that he feels he got away with (like things the prosecution doesn't bring up or specifically says they don't know....or perhaps even small things they get wrong).

He's disconnected from seeing other people as actual people with very real feelings. The girl or girls he targeted weren't "people"....they were symbols, IMHO. I don't feel he attacked, say, MM, because he felt like she ignored him when he tried to chat her up in the grocery store. It wasn't about who she was, it was about what she was.

And when you see other people as a mean to an end, a way to work out your issues, then they become isolated in your mind---you don't see them as a daughter, friend, relative to other people.

His taptalk posts referred to beginning to see other people as sacks of meat with no self worth, like he viewed himself. He talks about his parents' worry, anger, and upset not even registering with him.

 

[INfisherman]

To be honest, I don't think BK gets any pleasure from the families' anguish.

I think the pleasure he gets from the trial is getting to watch the whole criminal justice practice from the inside. To see how the investigation and trial unfold and compare them to ones he studied in his coursework. To take pride in parts of it that he feels he got away with (like things the prosecution doesn't bring up or specifically says they don't know....or perhaps even small things they get wrong).

He's disconnected from seeing other people as actual people with very real feelings. The girl or girls he targeted weren't "people"....they were symbols, IMHO. I don't feel he attacked, say, MM, because he felt like she ignored him when he tried to chat her up in the grocery store. It wasn't about who she was, it was about what she was.

And when you see other people as a mean to an end, a way to work out your issues, then they become isolated in your mind---you don't see them as a daughter, friend, relative to other people.

His taptalk posts referred to beginning to see other people as sacks of meat with no self worth, like he viewed himself. He talks about his parents' worry, anger, and upset not even registering with him.

I think his being the smartest person in the room attitude somehow figures into that sort of twisted thinking of his as well. There’s almost a sense of gamesmanship/I can get away with it thing going on there as well but utter speculation & likely obvious to many.

JMO

 

[technicallymissing]

Thanks @Sundog for your post a few notches up re Ramsland's book on Kansas based BTK.



Please

Any NYT subscriber here who might be able to give the article cited above as a "gift" article?
(terminology?)
Or maybe copy and paste a ¶ specifically about terms of contract.

Thank you.

The Serial Killer’s Co-Author (Published 2016)

Katherine Ramsland has written many books on macabre subjects, but her latest volume takes a startling new form: a collaboration that lets a notorious murderer — Dennis Rader, a.k.a. the ‘B.T.K. Killer’ — tell his own story.

www.nytimes.com

Here's what the above article had to say about terms of contract in BTK's case--

One question people often ask about this unusual collaboration is whether Rader profits from it. He doesn’t, Ramsland explained. In the past 40 years, so-called Son of Sam laws — named after David Berkowitz, who considered selling his story to great outrage in 1977 — have prevented a number of murderers from making money from their stories. In 2005, Thompson worried that Son of Sam laws did not go far enough: They varied from state to state, and a 1991 court ruling had found them to be too broad and possibly unconstitutional. So Thompson and his then co-counsel, Mark Hutton, drew up a contract that gave the families of the victims 75 percent of the profits of all media rights. The current contract, though slightly different, is similarly generous. (Sony has already optioned a TV series.)

I thought this bit was worth including too--

Thompson, the lawyer who represents the victims’ families, had rejected a number of writers looking to do some kind of project about him. He told everyone who called to write a proposal of intent, but few followed through. Those who did were not able to win over the families. Ramsland, however, got the go-ahead. The families liked her, Thompson said, though he added that they “didn’t really want a book — they would have preferred that he be left in a hole and never heard from again.”

The article also said that the book is composed of roughly 80% of BTK's own words and 20% Ramsland's commentary.

 

[katydid23]

Here is the article... Those eyes...

I never knew that he had been hanging out at the U of I. Creepy. Maybe that is where he first came across MM or the other girls?

 

[Ghostwheel]

Murderers. Writing/Selling Their Stories, Can't Profit?

@detectivewannab
^That^ is a verrry broad stmt.
If referring to "Son of Sam" type laws, re the convicted persons writing/selling, imo it depends.

Short explanation:

Son of Sam law - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Tedious Detail Alert for longer explanation, from a 2022 law review article:
"Making A Constitutional “Son of Sam” Law: Netflix’s Booming True Crime Business"

"On their face, “Son of Sam” laws seem like logical laws to be implemented in every state. However, the water becomes muddier when you factor in the First Amendment guarantee of freedom of speech."

"The state of New York enacted the original “Son of Sam” law in 1977 to prevent criminals such as David Berkowitz from profiting by selling their stories. The law allowed New York’s crime board to seize convicted felons’ money earned from entertainment deals to help compensate their victims. However, David Berkowitz would never have the law, that derives its colloquial name from him, implemented against him."

In 1991, the US Supreme Court "ruled that New York’s “Son of Sam” law was unconstitutional in Simon & Schuster v.Crimes Victims Board...."

Other states ".... enacted laws modeled after New York’s “Son of Sam” law that were held constitutional in some state courts."

"Statutes in California and Nevada... were ruled unconstitutional by their respective state supreme courts. The over forty-year attempt to create a constitutional “Son of Sam” law has been a valiant effort put forth by states with New York leading the charge."

"Preventing criminals from profiting from their crimes is a just cause to fight, but in doing so it gives states the power to silence those individuals that stand up to the grave injustices that inhabit the United States. States should turn their focus to enacting statutes that encompass the second half ofthe current New York “Son of Sam” statute which allows victims to go after “funds of a convicted person.” This provision has no First Amendment issue...."
bbm ubm
______________________________________
From a Hastings Constitutional Law Quarterly Article, 2-2022

https://repository.uclawsf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2148&context=hastings_constitutional_law_quaterly

I'm obviously not seeing something the Supreme court saw. Freedom of speech is not Freedom to get paid for said speech. Write all the books you want. Have free speech. But you can't make money off it. I'll have to read some other explanation somewhere. Maybe it's just too late for my comprehension skilz.

But I do wonder how many books will be written about this case. The many perspectives would be interesting to compare

 

[Sachi]

Imagine a book written

To be honest, I don't think BK gets any pleasure from the families' anguish.

I think the pleasure he gets from the trial is getting to watch the whole criminal justice practice from the inside. To see how the investigation and trial unfold and compare them to ones he studied in his coursework. To take pride in parts of it that he feels he got away with (like things the prosecution doesn't bring up or specifically says they don't know....or perhaps even small things they get wrong).

He's disconnected from seeing other people as actual people with very real feelings. The girl or girls he targeted weren't "people"....they were symbols, IMHO. I don't feel he attacked, say, MM, because he felt like she ignored him when he tried to chat her up in the grocery store. It wasn't about who she was, it was about what she was.

And when you see other people as a mean to an end, a way to work out your issues, then they become isolated in your mind---you don't see them as a daughter, friend, relative to other people.

His taptalk posts referred to beginning to see other people as sacks of meat with no self worth, like he viewed himself. He talks about his parents' worry, anger, and upset not even registering with him.

this.

 

[bugenjoyer]

I'm obviously not seeing something the Supreme court saw. Freedom of speech is not Freedom to get paid for said speech. Write all the books you want. Have free speech. But you can't make money off it. I'll have to read some other explanation somewhere. Maybe it's just too late for my comprehension skilz.

But I do wonder how many books will be written about this case. The many perspectives would be interesting to compare

There are already at least 3 or 4 books written about this case, which I think is WILD considering the trial hasn't even happened yet..

 

[Boxer]

If BK was smart, he would take an "Alford Plea". And call it done.

Alford plea - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That is what I thought CD should have done.

But, after watching CD, and LVD's trial, they seem to have been relishing the attention of the trials. That is some strange mental health issue, not even diagnosed or identified. The Waukesha Christmas Parade massacre dude, he seemed to be excited during his trial, on fire with some manic energy.

MOO their cruelty continues in the legal phase.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

I feel like they probably had ring cameras at that house. Because wasn't Kaylee and some of the other girls afraid they were being stalked? So common sense would tell you they would put up some cameras. They probably have Bryan Kohberger on camera at house there, going into the house.

 

[Snoop Sister]

To be honest, I don't think BK gets any pleasure from the families' anguish.

I think the pleasure he gets from the trial is getting to watch the whole criminal justice practice from the inside. To see how the investigation and trial unfold and compare them to ones he studied in his coursework. To take pride in parts of it that he feels he got away with (like things the prosecution doesn't bring up or specifically says they don't know....or perhaps even small things they get wrong).

He's disconnected from seeing other people as actual people with very real feelings. The girl or girls he targeted weren't "people"....they were symbols, IMHO. I don't feel he attacked, say, MM, because he felt like she ignored him when he tried to chat her up in the grocery store. It wasn't about who she was, it was about what she was.

And when you see other people as a mean to an end, a way to work out your issues, then they become isolated in your mind---you don't see them as a daughter, friend, relative to other people.

His taptalk posts referred to beginning to see other people as sacks of meat with no self worth, like he viewed himself. He talks about his parents' worry, anger, and upset not even registering with him.

Exactly!!

 

[Miss Poovy]

If the defense expert that is apparently going to insist that two people participated in the murders, and is going to suggest that more than one weapon was used, is going to base it partly on the report that Kaylee suffered a broken nose, that expert will be completely dissed by the jury, as common sense would tell most people that a man the size and build of BK, who was trained in boxing, could easily have broken Kaylee's nose with one punch to the face. And if we learn that there were more punches to KG, or punches to other victims, XK most likely, that changes nothing, as it pertains to his argument. With the condition his victims were in, BK's fist more than qualified as a weapon. JMO

Just for giggles, even if there were two people (I don’t think so), there seems to be enough evidence that BK was a murderer. So I don’t really see how the two person theory changes things for BK.

In some states, I live in one, if you are involved you are prosecuted the same as the killer.

 

[SteveP]

If BK was smart, he would take an "Alford Plea". And call it done.

Alford plea - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That is what I thought CD should have done.

But, after watching CD, and LVD's trial, they seem to have been relishing the attention of the trials. That is some strange mental health issue, not even diagnosed or identified. The Waukesha Christmas Parade massacre dude, he seemed to be excited during his trial, on fire with some manic energy.

As with all plea bargains, an Alford plea is not a right and it is ultimately up to the prosecutor and judge to decide if they will offer it.

I do not see an Alford Plea being offered or accepted in this case. JMO

Alford plea

www.law.cornell.edu

 

[sunshineray]

It was one of the first trials televised, that's why we have film footage of it.

MOO

They even showed the jury, their reactions to things, many times. And of course TB being his own lawyer and taking the stand too. The judge even warned him, after TB fired his last lawyer and took over his defense, the classic: anyone that represents himself has a fool for a client.

 

[sunshineray]

To be honest, I don't think BK gets any pleasure from the families' anguish.

I think the pleasure he gets from the trial is getting to watch the whole criminal justice practice from the inside. To see how the investigation and trial unfold and compare them to ones he studied in his coursework. To take pride in parts of it that he feels he got away with (like things the prosecution doesn't bring up or specifically says they don't know....or perhaps even small things they get wrong).

He's disconnected from seeing other people as actual people with very real feelings. The girl or girls he targeted weren't "people"....they were symbols, IMHO. I don't feel he attacked, say, MM, because he felt like she ignored him when he tried to chat her up in the grocery store. It wasn't about who she was, it was about what she was.

And when you see other people as a mean to an end, a way to work out your issues, then they become isolated in your mind---you don't see them as a daughter, friend, relative to other people.

His taptalk posts referred to beginning to see other people as sacks of meat with no self worth, like he viewed himself. He talks about his parents' worry, anger, and upset not even registering with him.

I disagree on some of this. I think he does enjoy the pain he's caused, as a voyager. Saying (paraphrasing), it's ok, I'm going to help you, to a victim at the moment before her death, most likely after she's watched him murder the man she loves...well that's just straight-up evil enjoyment of controlling/messing with her mind in her last moments alive...a real I am God thing, MO.

I also don't think he's ever considered himself as a sack of meat with no worth, quite the contrary. I think he thought and still thinks of himself as superior and unique among the ordinary. I'd be very surprised if BK was ever suicidally inclined, even as an addict. JMO

 

[MeadowMuffin]

I disagree on some of this. I think he does enjoy the pain he's caused, as a voyager. Saying (paraphrasing), it's ok, I'm going to help you, to a victim at the moment before her death, most likely after she's watched him murder the man she loves...well that's just straight-up evil enjoyment of controlling/messing with her mind in her last moments alive...a real I am God thing, MO.

I also don't think he's ever considered himself as a sack of meat with no worth, quite the contrary. I think he thought and still thinks of himself as superior and unique among the ordinary. I'd be very surprised if BK was ever suicidally inclined, even as an addict. JMO

Dennis Rader (BTK) used a similar ploy on Shirley Vian, who i believe was his 5th murder victim, after the Otero family. And we all know that BK knows a lot about BTK. She was ill and I believe her got her a glass of water and comforted her! FAKE! I think it just shows the utter contempt these psychopaths have for other human beings.

 

[sunshineray]

I'm obviously not seeing something the Supreme court saw. Freedom of speech is not Freedom to get paid for said speech. Write all the books you want. Have free speech. But you can't make money off it. I'll have to read some other explanation somewhere. Maybe it's just too late for my comprehension skilz.

But I do wonder how many books will be written about this case. The many perspectives would be interesting to compare

In a lot of state's it depends whether the families of the victims sued in civil court, like in OJ's case. The rights and profits of OJ's book, "If I Did It", were given to the Goldmans.

 

[sunshineray]

I feel like they probably had ring cameras at that house. Because wasn't Kaylee and some of the other girls afraid they were being stalked? So common sense would tell you they would put up some cameras. They probably have Bryan Kohberger on camera at house there, going into the house.

I think that would have most likely leaked if they did, MO