4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #106

[MassGuy]

IMO.Another two fair and impartial orders, supported by detailed reasoning and legal argument. I really like this judge.

Exactly. These were completely predictable.

No way was he keeping the family out of court, nor was he going to allow testing that the defense didn’t do.

 

[Megnut]

I'm trying to track down the thesis, which should've been published and accessible on some sort of digital repository of theses/dissertations, and 100% should contain a page that states that DeSales' IRB has reviewed/approved the research plan.

In the meantime, I found it interesting (and maybe relevant to his seemingly-contemptuous attitude towards peer-aged women) that BK appears to be the only male student who completed a MCJ at DeSales in 2022--I could be wrong, but according to the commencement program, all of the other folks in his cohort have names which are most commonly used by women. I was going to post a screenshot but for purposes of not identifying the full names of the other folks who graduated with BK, I will just list the first names of the 2022 MCJ recipients here:

Karlyna
Jenna
[BK]
Jessica
Brina
Cailee
Alyssa
Marina


The link is to the commencement program. https://heavy.com/wpcontent/uploads/2022/12/desalescommencementclassof2022.pdf

How much of that program did BK complete remotely? I can't see that roster meshing with his history.

 

[Diddian]

Question: was it verifed that the red stain on the outside of Xana's bedroom was human blood? I remember lots of speculation about that, early on.

I remember some photographs published a couple weeks after the murders by Daily Mail that also seemed to show what looked to me like dark drips down the front of the base cabinets to the left of the refrigerator, as though a dark liquid substance was dripping from the soffit above the wall cabinets onto the countertop below and then from that down the front of the base cabinets.

But if blood coming from a victim on the second floor (just one step up from kitchen area) got into the HVAC ductwork, then how could it have gotten into the soffit above the kitchen cabinets? (ETA: That would defy gravity. Photo link replaced with copy of photo below.)


Link to article:

Eerie photos reveal inside the Idaho quadruple murder house

DailyMail.com pictures show the inside of the home in Moscow, Idaho, where four students were murdered.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Warwick7]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1919875587138564148

 

[realanastasia]

The school's MCJ can be completed online even today, so during COVID it's likely BK would've been taking most classes online (albeit still with the other students in his cohort).

 

[mickey2942]

I think most DA’s would check with the families before offering/accepting a plea.

Wrong. The lawyers make the arrangement. They tell the family of the victim. Happens all of the time.

One example, most recently was the "Cess Pool Queen" who murdered Barbara Gustern, she got eight and a half years. The family was devastated.

Lauren Pazienza reaches plea deal for 8 years in shoving death of 87-year-old vocal coach Barbara Gustern

The 87-year-old was going to see a show when she was knocked to the ground by a stranger. She died at the hospital.

www.cbsnews.com

GUILTY Post in thread 'NY - Barbara Maier Gustern, 87, brutally shoved in street, dies, Manhattan, 12 March 2022 *arrest*'

Mar 17, 2022

Kathleen Hanna Seeks Public's Help to Identify Woman Who Killed Her Singing Coach

• JerseyGirl

• 

 

[Warwick7]

From https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01...207+Examination+and+Extension+of+Deadline.pdf

BK apparently wanted to/had the inclination to deny that his ASD had much impact on his life:

Page 9: "Moreover, Dr. Orr specifically observed that, on symptom inventories, Defendant 'chose not to comment on any concerns about himself' and he showed "very little insight into his behavior and emotions. Exh. D7-E, p. 25 (Orr Phase 2 Rpt).' In other words, there was very little by way of self-reported symptoms."

Footnote on same page: "Similarly, Dr. Ryan also observed during her forensic psychiatric examination of Defendant that he did not "thrust forward" his symptoms in a manner suggesting malingering and, in fact, took "great pains to minimize and deny psychiatric symptomatology." Exh. D-13E, p. 54 (Dr. Ryan Phase 2 Rpt.)"

Ultimately, on p. 10, Judge Hippler writes, "In other words, Defendant cannot use personality disorder, or the asserted non-existence thereof, and the lack of testing for it, as a shield and a sword."

1. chose not to comment on any concerns about himself.

2. he showed very little insight into his behavior and emotions.

3. In fact, ho took "great pains" to minimize and deny psychiatric symptomatology.

4. Defendant...did not "thrust forward" his symptoms in a manner suggesting malingering (deliberate exaggeration of illness).

You can't tell me he didn't get pi$$Ed when his own attys, stood before the Judge, and advertised and boasted about all the things mentally wrong with him.

 

[gremlin444]

IMO.Another two fair and impartial orders, supported by detailed reasoning and legal argument. I really like this judge.

Such a huge difference from the way decisions were issued by Judge Gull in the Delphi case!

 

[Megnut]

We know why AT is avoiding personality testing. A more complete evaluation will better account for his messed up nature, and those diagnoses fit nowhere on the protection from DP list. ASD isn't there either, but she was throwing a short yard dart on a big lawn in the hopes the judge might decides to pioneer new caselaw, or a side of coleslaw to go with her word salad. Not gonna happen. 119 is never going to be less than 70.

I did think maybe the Defense's expert opened the door by saying that BK didn't fit the criteria for antisocial personailty disorder.

But really? Doesn't he? Granted it's limited, but some law breaking. Drug use.

And the ASD, they're basically making an expert theoretical diagnosis based on historical, anecdotal data. How I might have diagnosed him if I were there at the time...

Conveniently IMO the defense expert probably didn't have much adult data to go by when concluding he didn't fit for ASPD. And maybe that one's not the best fit. NPD probably fits him. Like a glove. A medical nitrile glove.

It's unfortunate that the State will be limited in what they can rebut, during the sentencing phase, credit to AT for playing the schedule as she has and choreographing a very narrow door for the State. Good lawyering on her part.

Anyone else find it Bryany how he thinks he's above the questions being asked of him? Just skips over the ones he doesn't feel like answering...

Proving once again, he doesn't think the rules apply to him.

JMO

 

[gremlin444]

I remember some photographs published a couple weeks after the murders by Daily Mail that also seemed to show what looked to me like dark drips down the front of the base cabinets to the left of the refrigerator, as though a dark liquid substance was dripping from the soffit above the wall cabinets onto the countertop below and then from that down the front of the base cabinets.

But if blood coming from a victim on the second floor (just one step up from kitchen area) got into the HVAC ductwork, then how could it have gotten into the soffit above the kitchen cabinets? (ETA: That would defy gravity. Photo link replaced with copy of photo below.)

View attachment 584300
Link to article:

Eerie photos reveal inside the Idaho quadruple murder house

DailyMail.com pictures show the inside of the home in Moscow, Idaho, where four students were murdered.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Grey Hughes actually addressed that in a recent video:

starts at 8 min 20 sec

He shows with his detailed 3d model of the house how that can't be blood because the wall where those cabinets are does not share a wall/ is not next to or below rooms where attacks occurred. He thinks it is leftover residue from testing done by the forensics team.

 

[Fleur-de-lis]

I think BK may have fast talked his way to a diploma...

...Did BK get a free pass from graduate school to PhD program, unearned and ill-advised?

...

RSBM:

When working at an R-1 university as part of the admissions group, I could NOT believe some of the students who were allowed into graduate programs. It seemed to start during COVID. Graduate degrees are a business, a lucrative business. There was no vetting, no discernment, no standards, really, other than "Can they pay?" and "Can we get more grants based on this additional grad student?" -- all SORTS of awful, or unprepared, or unable, or suss people were let in into programs, especially online ones and non-STEM areas. It was so distasteful to me that I recently switched positions. Some of the faculty were well-known for advocating for students that no program would want other than to be oppositional. I call the university a "sheltered workshop for PhDs" due to the extreme oddness of a large portion of the faculty. Not just odd, but determined to be cranks.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I'm trying to track down the thesis, which should've been published and accessible on some sort of digital repository of theses/dissertations, and 100% should contain a page that states that DeSales' IRB has reviewed/approved the research plan.

In the meantime, I found it interesting (and maybe relevant to his seemingly-contemptuous attitude towards peer-aged women) that BK appears to be the only male student who completed a MCJ at DeSales in 2022--I could be wrong, but according to the commencement program, all of the other folks in his cohort have names which are most commonly used by women. I was going to post a screenshot but for purposes of not identifying the full names of the other folks who graduated with BK, I will just list the first names of the 2022 MCJ recipients here:

Karlyna
Jenna
[BK]
Jessica
Brina
Cailee
Alyssa
Marina


The link is to the commencement program. https://heavy.com/wpcontent/uploads/2022/12/desalescommencementclassof2022.pdf

Great sleuthing there.

 

[girlhasnoname]

1. chose not to comment on any concerns about himself.

2. he showed very little insight into his behavior and emotions.

3. In fact, ho took "great pains" to minimize and deny psychiatric symptomatology.

4. Defendant...did not "thrust forward" his symptoms in a manner suggesting malingering (deliberate exaggeration of illness).

You can't tell me he didn't get pi$$Ed when his own attys, stood before the Judge, and advertised and boasted about all the things mentally wrong with him.

Agree, I think BK was probably seething on the inside, but able to control his outward appearance. Even MH Experts can get it wrong, especially when hired and paid as such for the Defense or the State.

JMO

 

[Diddian]

Grey Hughes actually addressed that in a recent video:

starts at 8 min 20 sec

He shows with his detailed 3d model of the house how that can't be blood because the wall where those cabinets are does not share a wall/ is not next to or below rooms where attacks occurred. He thinks it is leftover residue from testing done by the forensics team.

His analysis is good as usual, but it is speculative, so we can't know for certain. It seems dependent upon that blood being from a victim in XK's room (either XK or EC) or something happening in the kitchen (either an attack there or forensic testing that left a substance behind) and doesn't consider other possibilities.

For example, if blood pooled and entered a heat register to get into the HVAC ducting from a third floor room (ie., was from the wounds to KG or MM) and that HVAC ducting passed through the soffit above the kitchen cabinets and was not tightly sealed anywhere along that run, than it is possible it would leak down from the soffit onto the countertops and from there down the base cabinet door. And it is also possible that the blood dripping down the exterior foundation might be from that same source rather than from either XK or EC if the HVAC ductwork ran through that area.

News reports showed an HVAC specialist show up at and be escorted into the house after it appeared most crime scene forensic testing was done and it would be nice to know what that specialist was there for. To scope inside ducts to follow the source of liquid drips? Duct cleaning and sealing after any forensics of blood infiltration in the ducts was finished?

I had ice dams on my roof this winter and based on my observations of water infiltration from those, it is AMAZING how once liquid infiltrates where it is not supposed to be (in my case small amounts of water from melting snow backed up behind the ice dams so climbed up under shingles above that area and then leaked into the attic space below the roof), it can follow anything (electrical wires, ducting, exterior of plumbing pipes) to drip down somewhere completely different than below the area where it infiltrated. Also learned that if water drips down lumber, it turns dark from the tannins in the lumber, so the water becomes a dark substance when it drips down interior walls. I'd imagine that blood would also absorb those tannins and turn darker.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Wrong. The lawyers make the arrangement. They tell the family of the victim. Happens all of the time.

One example, most recently was the "Cess Pool Queen" who murdered Barbara Gustern, she got eight and a half years. The family was devastated.

Lauren Pazienza reaches plea deal for 8 years in shoving death of 87-year-old vocal coach Barbara Gustern

The 87-year-old was going to see a show when she was knocked to the ground by a stranger. She died at the hospital.

www.cbsnews.com

GUILTY Post in thread 'NY - Barbara Maier Gustern, 87, brutally shoved in street, dies, Manhattan, 12 March 2022 *arrest*'

Mar 17, 2022

Kathleen Hanna Seeks Public's Help to Identify Woman Who Killed Her Singing Coach

• JerseyGirl

• 

I agree the Lawyers make the actual Plea Deals, but I disagree that they aren't discussed with victims (or families of the victims) before the State accepts them in certain cases.

I've seen it happen where the Prosecution has asked the family if they wanted to take a chance at trial or accept a plea offered by the Defense, even if it was less than what they expected. Usually it seems to happen when they are lacking rock solid evidence.

I also find that in most of these situations, the families typically accept the Plea Deal because the emotional and physical toll is already so great at that point, they do not want to sit through a long, traumatic public trial with the possibility of a Not Guilty Verdict.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

We know why AT is avoiding personality testing. A more complete evaluation will better account for his messed up nature, and those diagnoses fit nowhere on the protection from DP list. ASD isn't there either, but she was throwing a short yard dart on a big lawn in the hopes the judge might decides to pioneer new caselaw, or a side of coleslaw to go with her word salad. Not gonna happen. 119 is never going to be less than 70.

I did think maybe the Defense's expert opened the door by saying that BK didn't fit the criteria for antisocial personailty disorder.

But really? Doesn't he? Granted it's limited, but some law breaking. Drug use.

And the ASD, they're basically making an expert theoretical diagnosis based on historical, anecdotal data. How I might have diagnosed him if I were there at the time...

Conveniently IMO the defense expert probably didn't have much adult data to go by when concluding he didn't fit for ASPD. And maybe that one's not the best fit. NPD probably fits him. Like a glove. A medical nitrile glove.

It's unfortunate that the State will be limited in what they can rebut, during the sentencing phase, credit to AT for playing the schedule as she has and choreographing a very narrow door for the State. Good lawyering on her part.

Anyone else find it Bryany how he thinks he's above the questions being asked of him? Just skips over the ones he doesn't feel like answering...

Proving once again, he doesn't think the rules apply to him.

JMO

I found this footnote (you know my obsession with a good footnote) on Judge Hippler's response linked above by Massy in the Order on States Motion for Examination and Deadline:

<snipped>

Footnote 7 on Page 5:

One of the Defendants forensic Psychiatrists, Dr. E.R., concluded in her expert report that the "Defendant" does not have a childhood history of behavior that is consistent with conduct disorder or antisocial personality disorder in adulthood, nor does he meet the criteria for antisocial personality disorder.

IMHO, BK did this because he wanted to do this.

 

[NuttMegg]

From Idaho Code 19-2515

Information concerning the victim and the impact that the death of the victim has had on the victim’s family is relevant and admissible. Such information shall be designed to demonstrate the victim’s

I agree the Lawyers make the actual Plea Deals, but I disagree that they aren't discussed with victims (or families of the victims) before the State accepts them in certain cases.

I've seen it happen where the Prosecution has asked the family if they wanted to take a chance at trial or accept a plea offered by the Defense, even if it was less than what they expected. Usually it seems to happen when they are lacking rock solid evidence.

I also find that in most of these situations, the families typically accept the Plea Deal because the emotional and physical toll is already so great at that point, they do not want to sit through a long, traumatic public trial with the possibility of a Not Guilty Verdict.

JMO

Reportedly same as Watts case, with SW family in favor of accepting plea. Although it was a little muddied because of the predicted upcoming demise of the DP at that time in CO. But the family was clearly visited at home in NC by the DA to gather family opinions. Then later, in feb 2019 they learned more of the horrors of what he confessed to doing to his kids and their bodies. Then there were rumblings that one or more of the 3 Rzuceks in hindsight would have chosen the DP. Too fricken bad it was taken away, imo.

 

[minazoe]

it looks like blood to me. mOO

 

[Miss Poovy]

Institutional Review Boards (IRBs) at most universities have developed guidelines for faculty research that involves internet and social media research, including possible means of validation, particularly participant validation. Below is one example of IRB guidelines at the University of Arizona for research undertaken on the internet and social media.

https://research.arizona.edu/sites/default/files/Social%20Media%20and%20Research%20v2022-05%20NEW.pdf

Yes, I’m well aware of IRB social media guidelines, that’s why I would like to see his application & approval.

 

[MassGuy]

May 7, 2025 – Friday’s all-new Dateline NBC at 9 p.m. ET/8 p.m. CT will reveal exclusive new details about the investigation into the murders of four University of Idaho students: Madison Mogen, Kaylee Goncalves, Xana Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin. The special features never-before-reported evidence, including video, photographic and digital materials that investigators say track accused killer Bryan Kohberger’s movements.

A preview of the special, entitled The Terrible Night on King Road, will air Thursday, May 8, on TODAY.

During the two-hour broadcast, former students also open up to correspondent Keith Morrison for the first time about their interactions with Kohberger. Former graduate student Holly tells Dateline that after meeting Kohberger at a pool party and telling him about a hiking group she was a part of, they exchanged phone numbers. The next day, she received a textfrom him about hiking with “peculiar” wording, explaining: “It was almost overly formal.”

The special includes interviews with friends of the victims, including the mother of Mogen’s best friend, as well as in-depth analysis from criminology and genetics experts. Dateline has covered the case since the beginning, previously airing two specials on the investigation. Friday’s broadcast comes just weeks before Kohberger’s trial is set to begin. He has pleaded not guilty.

"DATELINE NBC" TO REVEAL EXCLUSIVE NEW DETAILS ON THE UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO MURDERS INVESTIGATION - NBC News Press Releases

All-New Special Features Never-Before-Reported Evidence & Insight into Case as Trial of Accused Killer Bryan Kohberger is Set to Begin PLUS: Former Students Speak Out About Their Interactions with Kohberger, Click Here to Watch Exchange Preview to Air Tomorrow on TODAY; ‘The Terrible Night on...

nbcuniversalnewsgroup.com