4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #107

[ChatteringBirds]

This tragedy seems to be breaking news:

Police said they responded to King Road for a report of an unconscious person. When officers arrived, they “discovered four individuals who were deceased...”

4 Idaho college students killed in 'targeted attack,' no suspects in custody

Four University of Idaho students were found dead on Sunday, officials said.

abcnews.go.com

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Media Thread/No Discussion
Media Thread/No Discussion #2

Probable Cause Affidavit

Press photo album (compilation courtesy of WS member cujenn81)

Moscow ID Police Department Facebook page

City of Moscow re King Road Homicide

Media Guide to the Idaho Courts

Detectives are looking to develop context for the events and people involved in the four murders at 1122 King Rd in Moscow, Idaho. Anyone who observed notable behavior, has video surveillance, or can provide relevant information about these murders:

• Telephone: 208-883-7180
• Email: tipline@ci.moscow.id.us
• Digital Media: fbi.gov/moscowidaho

 

[Knitty]

Please continue here.

 

[SteveP]

The linked article below tells some of what we may expect to see addressed at the hearing tomorrow.

In addition to several issues we expected will be addressed, the Dateline episode that just aired may come up. I do not foresee it having any effect on the upcoming trial. JMO

This week’s hearing also arrives on the heels of a two-hour special on the case from NBC’s “Dateline,” which cited unnamed sources and offered new information about the investigation and Kohberger, including data allegedly obtained from his cellphone, as well as other details that the Statesman could not independently verify. A court gag order remains in effect, restricting the defense and prosecution from making statements about the case outside of the court record. For the prosecution, that includes members of law enforcement as agents of the state.

“Those things are so under lock and key that there’s no way it came from anywhere else but a law enforcement source,” Edwina Elcox, a Boise-based criminal defense attorney, told the Statesman. “Law enforcement shouldn’t have even revealed that in the absence of a gag order.”

The public release of such information outside of court and just months before the trial risks spoiling the jury pool and jeopardizing Kohberger’s right to a fair trial, she said. It could lead to Kohberger’s defense requesting a dismissal of the charges, which she said would be unlikely, or motions to have the prejudicial details withheld from jurors by barring them from the prosecution’s case.

“I don’t know how you cure that poisoning of the well. I don’t think it can be done,” Elcox said. “I would be absolutely shocked if there wasn’t forthcoming litigation about this.”

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article306252251.html

 

[Sundog]

The linked article below tells some of what we may expect to see addressed at the hearing tomorrow.

In addition to several issues we expected will be addressed, the Dateline episode that just aired may come up. I do not foresee it having any effect on the upcoming trial. JMO

This week’s hearing also arrives on the heels of a two-hour special on the case from NBC’s “Dateline,” which cited unnamed sources and offered new information about the investigation and Kohberger, including data allegedly obtained from his cellphone, as well as other details that the Statesman could not independently verify. A court gag order remains in effect, restricting the defense and prosecution from making statements about the case outside of the court record. For the prosecution, that includes members of law enforcement as agents of the state.

“Those things are so under lock and key that there’s no way it came from anywhere else but a law enforcement source,” Edwina Elcox, a Boise-based criminal defense attorney, told the Statesman. “Law enforcement shouldn’t have even revealed that in the absence of a gag order.”

The public release of such information outside of court and just months before the trial risks spoiling the jury pool and jeopardizing Kohberger’s right to a fair trial, she said. It could lead to Kohberger’s defense requesting a dismissal of the charges, which she said would be unlikely, or motions to have the prejudicial details withheld from jurors by barring them from the prosecution’s case.

“I don’t know how you cure that poisoning of the well. I don’t think it can be done,” Elcox said. “I would be absolutely shocked if there wasn’t forthcoming litigation about this.”

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article306252251.html

And from the article linked -

Following Kohberger’s arrest, investigators amassed as much as 100 hours of video interviews with his WSU graduate student peers, Taylor said at the hearing.
Nye responded that prosecutors have no plans to use any of those interviews to justify their push for the death penalty if Kohberger is convicted. “To be quite frank, if we get to a penalty phase, we have a lot better aggravating evidence,” Nye told the court.

Read more at: https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article306252251.html#storylink=cpy

 

[Justice101]

The trial cannot get here quick enough.

There seems to be a mountain of evidence on the Prosecution's side...but what does the Defense have?

The Defense will probably concentrate on:
1) The innate inaccuracy of cell tower triangulation trying to infer that BK was only on a road that passed near 1122 King Street on his way out to star gazing all those times. This won't fly. Especially when they show that it stayed that close for many minutes.

2) DM eyewitness testimony that is shaky with very little detail and that she cannot say as a fact, that the man on trial is the same one she saw in the house. Me: Yeh, like he had a mask on.... duh.

3) No physical evidence (DNA, hair, personal items) of the 4 students that were slain found in BKs car or (apparently) at his apartment. How could so much blood be shed with none found in his car or apartment?

4) How could 4 people be stabbed to death in only 12 minutes (or whatever it was)? Again... the Defense is not really rebutting the evidence... just postulating doubt in the timeline created by the Prosecution.


What else does AT have to work with???

 

[Megnut]

What does AT have to work with?

ZERO shoelaces and NO ability to tie them together.

JMO

 

[Megnut]

Been watching Gisela K. on Grizzly True Crimes discussing the Dateline documentary with Joshua Ritter (Courtroom Confidential). One topic of concern was, who might have leaked all the new evidence disclosed on the program.

With Dateline having hit TV screens all around Boise (and the country), I started wondering who would be advantaged by many potential jurors and witnesses having seen Dateline? Exposure to all this information ahead of time and outside the courtroom will certainly narrow the pool of potential jurors, potentially taint some who skirt through voir dire, and perhaps slightly influence testimonies?

I don’t think Judge H would tolerate more motions or further start date delays, but I do think Dateline disclosures could influence a few witnesses and certainly impact potential jurors, and to the advantage of which side? Thoughts?

State needs no advantage and IMO isn't going to jeopardize their case.

Defense will attempt to capitalize on it but shouldn't dare accuse the State outright (been there, done that, got spanked). I don't think they leaked it (in order to motion for dismissal).

Perhaps someone not bound by the gag order. Private investigator or LE, once privy to the investigation, now retired....

Or rock solid docujournalism, deep diving with multiple sources.

Won't change the outcome of the trial. We live in an age of global coverage and mass saturation and still seat impartial juries.

And will for BK too.

Even if the public watches this episode of Dateline every single day. And twice on Sunday.

JMO

 

[MassGuy]

Skip to about the 13 minute mark. Talks about the implications of the Dateline episode, how both sides would be upset, and Anne’s potential moves. Expect fireworks tomorrow.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1922377557145432401

 

[girlhasnoname]

Skip to about the 13 minute mark. Talks about the implications of the Dateline episode, how both sides would be upset, and Anne’s potential moves. Expect fireworks tomorrow.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1922377557145432401

Oh my, this should be very interesting to say the least. I bet AT & CO. have been furiously working on Motions and Objections since it aired on Friday (?) for their hearing.

In all honesty, I was kind of surprised at how much detailed information was revealed, but a jury hasn't been selected yet and not everyone watches Dateline or are True Crime Junkies like us, lol. The Defense can use Voir Dire to weed them out.

Pass the popcorn, this could be a good one.

JMO

 

[pittsburghgirl]

n all honesty, I was kind of surprised at how much detailed information was revealed, but a jury hasn't been selected yet and not everyone watches Dateline or are True Crime Junkies like us, lol. The Defense can use Voir Dire to weed them out.


JMO

There were actually jurors at the the most recent Lori Vallow Daybell trial for murdering her husband (etc.) who didn't know that she and her guru Chad had been convicted for killing her kids. And that was a truly national case involving kids who appeared to be missing and their other relatives looking for them and two trials with national coverage.

 

[arielilane]

@kfixler


On Thursday, #BryanKohberger will make his last court appearance before summer murder trial in Boise.
A recent @DatelineNBC #Idaho4 episode that cited unnamed sources for previously unreleased case details could cloud that hearing, legal experts told me.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1922683505529528825

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article306252251.html

 

[arielilane]

@kfixler


Tonight #Idaho4 #BryanKohberger

https://twitter.com/x/status/1922720664508633420

 

[pittsburghgirl]

The trial cannot get here quick enough.

There seems to be a mountain of evidence on the Prosecution's side...but what does the Defense have?

The Defense will probably concentrate on:
1) The innate inaccuracy of cell tower triangulation trying to infer that BK was only on a road that passed near 1122 King Street on his way out to star gazing all those times. This won't fly. Especially when they show that it stayed that close for many minutes.

2) DM eyewitness testimony that is shaky with very little detail and that she cannot say as a fact, that the man on trial is the same one she saw in the house. Me: Yeh, like he had a mask on.... duh.

3) No physical evidence (DNA, hair, personal items) of the 4 students that were slain found in BKs car or (apparently) at his apartment. How could so much blood be shed with none found in his car or apartment?

4) How could 4 people be stabbed to death in only 12 minutes (or whatever it was)? Again... the Defense is not really rebutting the evidence... just postulating doubt in the timeline created by the Prosecution.


What else does AT have to work with???

I'm not sure there isn't more physical evidence. There may be evidence that we don't know about. I watched the George Wagner trial (Pike County massacre) after following it closely and there was so much evidence we had never heard about.

And here's the thing about the 12 minutes. It's a long time when you're stabbing three people sleeping in bed (all having had alcohol that night) and a fourth who is much smaller and unarmed. In my prime, I could run a mile and a half in 12 minutes easily. I can drive the 5 miles to work in 11. My team played an inning of softball in 12 minutes last week. And what we know is that DM saw one person leaving and there were 4 people dead. So it's possible.

 

[Arkay]

In all honesty, I was kind of surprised at how much detailed information was revealed, but a jury hasn't been selected yet and not everyone watches Dateline or are True Crime Junkies like us, lol. The Defense can use Voir Dire to weed them out.

Yes, and IMO this will have to suffice.

I agree with everyone above that Dateline certainly handed the public a lot of hitherto unknown detail that seems quite incriminatory towards Bryan.

However, investigative journalism is not a new phenomenon. The journalists will file for FOIA and pump their sources, too.

They did their job successfully, because most of us were eager to watch it. That’s their goal.

It does conflict with the goals of the prosecution and defense, IMO, because it will winnow down the available pool of neutral jurors. But it’s also true that voir dire and peremptory strikes will come into play. I’m sure there are legions of people who are not following the minutiae of this case.

What I personally hope has not been disclosed is some jaw-breaking reveal in court, similar to the video of Murdaugh being at the dog crates when he claimed to have been asleep. Something earthshaking like that to pin BK to the ground.

I can’t fault investigative journalism for doing its job, as people like us are likely their prime audience.

IMO journalism isn’t going to retreat into the coverup days of yore. If JFK were president now, we’d hear all about the women swimming nude in the White House pool. It’s just the way it is now—-journalism doesn’t just report, it also digs for a scoop.

The lawyers know this and I imagine will reshuffle their arguments. I cannot see asking for another change of venue, though, when these TV programs are nationally broadcast.

JMO

 

[MeadowMuffin]

DBM

 

[gremlin444]

And from the article linked -

Following Kohberger’s arrest, investigators amassed as much as 100 hours of video interviews with his WSU graduate student peers, Taylor said at the hearing.
Nye responded that prosecutors have no plans to use any of those interviews to justify their push for the death penalty if Kohberger is convicted. “To be quite frank, if we get to a penalty phase, we have a lot better aggravating evidence,” Nye told the court.

Read more at: https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article306252251.html#storylink=cpy

Guess what is due from the defense team by today?

"Kohberger’s defense aims to argue at trial that alternative perpetrators, and not Kohberger, are responsible for the crime. The defense team is still investigating a tip to police that it recently came across about a different potential suspect, Taylor said. “We have produced an expert that believes that it’s likely that there were two people, two weapons,” she told the court. Hippler ordered the defense to present an “offer of proof” of a specific alternative perpetrator by Wednesday if that is a legal argument they intend to make at trial."

 

[Arkay]

Guess what is due for the defense team by today?

"Kohberger’s defense aims to argue at trial that alternative perpetrators, and not Kohberger, are responsible for the crime. The defense team is still investigating a tip to police that it recently came across about a different potential suspect, Taylor said. “We have produced an expert that believes that it’s likely that there were two people, two weapons,” she told the court. Hippler ordered the defense to present an “offer of proof” of a specific alternative perpetrator by Wednesday if that is a legal argument they intend to make at trial."

Wow, then they’d better produce something astonishing because otherwise they have nothing.

In my opinion, as their job is to convince the jury that Bryan Kohberger is innocent, there could be 99 other perpetrators and it still would not exonerate him. His DNA remains unbudgingly on the sheath.

 

[Sundog]

Yes, and IMO this will have to suffice.

I agree with everyone above that Dateline certainly handed the public a lot of hitherto unknown detail that seems quite incriminatory towards Bryan.

However, investigative journalism is not a new phenomenon. The journalists will file for FOIA and pump their sources, too.

They did their job successfully, because most of us were eager to watch it. That’s their goal.

It does conflict with the goal of the prosecution and defense, IMO, because it will winnow down the available pool of neutral jurors. But it’s also true that voir dire and peremptory strikes will come into play. I’m sure there are legions of people who are not following the minutiae of this case.

What I personally hope has not been disclosed is some jaw-breaking reveal in court, similar to the video of Murdaugh being at the dog crates when he claimed to have been asleep. Something earthshaking like that to pin BK to the ground.

I can’t fault investigative journalism for doing its job, as people like us are likely their prime audience.

IMO journalism isn’t going to retreat into the coverup days of yore. If JFK were president now, we’d hear all about the women swimming nude in the White House pool. It’s just the way it is now—-journalism doesn’t just report, it also digs for a scoop.

The lawyers know this and I imagine will reshuffle their arguments. I cannot see asking for another change of venue, though, when these TV programs are nationally broadcast.

JMO

I agree, I doubt the defense will ask for another change of venue. I think they will try to get some of the leaked evidence supressed; and at the very least, call for revisions to the jury questionnaire that is on schedule to be reviewed at tomorrow's court hearing.

Also, just a note that it is likely that not only the defense and prosecution are unhappy about the leaked evidence presented on Dateline, but I supect that the judge is also very unhappy about the situation. It certainly complicates things.

 

[minazoe]

I agree with the poster who said he sped out of there because he assumed Dylan would be calling 911. so he sped home thinking any minute there would be breaking news..he would be on the phone with his mom when it broke..he would be like wow..turn on the news...wow! but nothing happened...literally nothing..he kept her on the phone for an hour....he drove back over there...nothing..

he must have been beside himself trying to figure it out..if it wasn't so horrible it would be funny.
mOO

 

[gremlin444]

If I were the prosecution, I'd have spent the weekend having someone researching and making a list of all the big name cases that had Dateline episodes about them broadcast before their trial started (Vallow/Daybell). See how many of them included previously unknown facts that came from exclusive anonymous sources "close to the investigation." And whether or not that caused the judges in those trials to make rulings/changes based upon the potential effect upon the jury pool.

Honestly, I'd be shocked if absolutely none of the new information came from Steve Goncalves, who would have gotten it via his PI or even LE telling him, hoping he'd keep it in confidence. There is also his claim that member(s) of the Idaho grand jury have come to him and told him things.