4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #107

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  • #1,021
This is a really excellent list. It would be great if this could be posted somewhere on WS for everyone to read. I’m saving it to share with people who aren’t in the forum.

Thank you. That’s fine with me as long as it can be posted with @iamshadow21’s concern about loss of innocence.

I, too, had a traumatic childhood and during college, I was a paramedic at my volunteer fire department. While my college classmates were having dorm parties, I was witnessing the most awful tragedies on a weekly basis. I really envied my classmates’ joy.
 
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Those traffic stops -- assuming it's true that he was pulled over as part of an interstate drug sting -- it's crazy!

What are the ODDS that an out-of-state vehicle, heading through that state that day, wouldn't have anything to do with drug muling but that driver was in the middle of days between a quadruple murder and being arrested for the same?

Credit to BK's dad, I guess, for getting them passage -- doctoral boy and his dad, just passibg through Mayberry, squeaky clean, no drug runners here.

LE truly had no idea who BK was. Didn't even run his license, as far as we know.

FBI must have about flat-lined, watching those traffic stops, panicked their fellow LEOs were jumping the gun.

But what was BK thinking? I notice he didn't ask a thousand questions, provide two thousand excuses. We don't have tailgates where I'm from...

He had to think they were on to him, hope it played nicely into his parDNAanoia.

I bet that was one weird drive, start to finish.

JMO
 
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  • #1,023
Really good visual of how this may have happened.

 
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Those traffic stops -- assuming it's true that he was pulled over as part of an interstate drug sting -- it's crazy!

What are the ODDS that an out-of-state vehicle, heading through that state that day, wouldn't have anything to do with drug muling but that driver was in the middle of dats between a quadruple murder and being arrested for the same?

Credit to BK's dad, I guess, for getting them passage -- doctoral boy and his dad, just passibg through Mayberry, squeaky clean, no drug runners here.

LE truly had no idea who BK was. Didn't even run his license, as far as we know.

FBI must have about flat-lined, watching those traffic stops, panicked their fellow LEOs were jumping the gun.

But what was BK thinking? I notice he didn't ask a thousand questions, provide two thousand excuses. We don't have tailgates where I'm from...

He had to think they were on to him, hope it played nicely into his parDNAanoia.

I bet that was one weird drive, start to finish.

JMO
Is this new info? Where did it say it was part of a drug sting?
 
  • #1,025
Is this new info? Where did it say it was part of a drug sting?

It isn’t new and was reported pretty soon after the traffic stops, but the stops weren’t part of a sting. The cops were checking any suspicious cars for potential drug trafficking since that highway is a common corridor for such activities.

When I was in my mid-twenties and often on the road in Texas visiting new-found relatives, my police chief cousin warned me that I fit the profile of a drug courier, so I shouldn’t be surprised to be stopped along one particular interstate that was infamous (among LE) for such activity.

Howard Blum had a different take, of course, in his Airmail piece.
 
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Those traffic stops -- assuming it's true that he was pulled over as part of an interstate drug sting -- it's crazy!

What are the ODDS that an out-of-state vehicle, heading through that state that day, wouldn't have anything to do with drug muling but that driver was in the middle of days between a quadruple murder and being arrested for the same?

Credit to BK's dad, I guess, for getting them passage -- doctoral boy and his dad, just passibg through Mayberry, squeaky clean, no drug runners here.

LE truly had no idea who BK was. Didn't even run his license, as far as we know.

FBI must have about flat-lined, watching those traffic stops, panicked their fellow LEOs were jumping the gun.

But what was BK thinking? I notice he didn't ask a thousand questions, provide two thousand excuses. We don't have tailgates where I'm from...

He had to think they were on to him, hope it played nicely into his parDNAanoia.

I bet that was one weird drive, start to finish.

JMO
Okay I googled what you wrote and I found some info from 2023.


"Two December traffic stops by Indiana police of the man later charged with murdering four University of Idaho students were unrelated to any active surveillance or the search for a car similar to one the suspect drove, according to state and federal law enforcement agencies.

The heavily scrutinized stops of Bryan Kohberger a month after the November slayings were instead routine interstate drug trafficking prevention operations by two different Indiana police departments, law enforcement officials in the state told the Idaho Statesman."
 
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The heavily scrutinized stops of Bryan Kohberger a month after the November slayings were instead routine interstate drug trafficking prevention operations by two different Indiana police departments, law enforcement officials in the state told the Idaho Statesman.

Read more at: https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article276185446.html#storylink=cpy



Yes I just found that myself. Amazing. I missed that the first time around. Well I don't believe any of that. You do all realize that police are allowed to lie to us as much as they want to. The only place they're not allowed to lie, is in legal documents.

<modsnip - cleared from this case>, and lost his life, and Brian and his father happened to be listening to that on the radio, the police randomly stopped Brian koburger for a drug sweep on December 15, even though police told them it was because he was following too closely. And the FBI had nothing to do with it because they didn't know who he was yet on December 15th. My my my. Of course if you listen to some pro burgers they say that they did know at that point. Actually it's in the media, that they knew by December 19th, here is some info..

"According to some sources, the FBI took over the IGG analysis and presented Kohberger's name to Idaho investigators on December 19, 2022, which was nine days after they took over testing. This information was used to identify a potential suspect, leading to further investigation and ultimately, Kohberger's arrest."


So if the FBI presented the name of coburger to the Idaho police on the 19th, and they had to do a couple rounds of DNA tests before that, and that takes at least a few days, in some cases they say DNA tests could take weeks, they must have been working on the DNA test and his name before the 15th. So I find it hard to believe the FBI did not know who Brian coburger was or have him as a suspect on the 15th.
 
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  • #1,029
Yes, an event such as the Idaho murders is indeed exceedingly rare, but IMO a young person can learn so much from it by treating it as a cautionary tale.

Caveat: I AM NOT BLAMING THE VICTIMS.

Source for the following: me

WHAT A YOUNG PERSON CAN LEARN FROM THE IDAHO MURDERS:

1) If you have a sliding door, improve its security. (See my previous post.)

2) Keep windows locked, even the ones upstairs.

3) Keep doors locked, especially the external ones.

4) Install and use security cameras at each entry way, at least. A pair of light bulb cameras are easy to install and can be purchased on Amazon for about $40 (before tax) in the U.S.

5) Install an alarm system, if you or your parents can afford it.

6) Draw your curtains and blinds at night and while everyone is away from home so people can’t see inside your house. Add a curtain to your slider, as well.

7) If pets are allowed, get a large, protective dog for your house and make sure the dog can bark loudly.

8) Develop a cordial relationship with police so you aren’t afraid to call them when you are scared.

9) Manage your social media privacy settings so that only people you trust can view your content.

10) Learn first aid, including CPR (which includes checking and maintaining an airway). Learn how to recognize and respond to someone who is dangerously intoxicated. If someone has passed out, roll them into recovery position and call 911.

11) Create a well-stocked first aid kit and learn how to use it. Include doses of Narcan, and learn how and when to administer it.

12) Practice the 20-minute rule for alcohol consumption, and never drive or walk home while drunk.

13) Don’t walk or exercise at night by yourself, and always be aware of your surroundings. Even when with friends, carry a Mace or pepper spray canister with an alarm. If you must walk that large protective dog at night, do the same, and wear a head lamp if it’s very dark.

14) Vary your routine so a predator can’t predict your patterns.

15) Don’t prank your friends by pretending a truly dangerous thing is happening.

16) Keep a fire extinguisher in your kitchen and know how to use it. Also keep a smoke detector in each room. (OK, these have no relevance to this case, but they are important).

17) Use CO monitors in each room.

18) Read Gavin de Becker’s classic, The Gift of Fear.

19) Take a self defense class and maintain your skills.

20) (I know, in my dreams): If you are in a party house, make a pact that at least one person will be sober each night. That person should confirm that all windows and doors are locked, the alarm is set, security cameras are working, and that no one is literally passed out drunk. If anyone is unconscious, check their airway, breathing, and circulation, and start rescue breathing and chest compressions, if necessary, while another friend calls 911. If your unconscious friend is breathing, roll them into recovery position, and call 911. Administer Narcan if your friend overdosed on a narcotic.

If anyone can think of anything else or can suggest a correction, please chime in!
Watching the Dateline video and reading the Appelman book was a revelation as to how out of control the party house was. They had people drinking and blasting music in what was their home when they weren't there. I'm guessing here, but I think they thought of the house as being like a dorm or a sorority house where people come and go all the time. And even that's foolish, as Ted Bundy showed us. The liability issues are staggering, if someone died from alcohol poisoning, choking on their vomit while drunk, or an overdose. And then there's sexual assault and theft and the problem that "everyone," including people who don't wish you well, has the passcode to the house. It's not for nothing that people wondered if BK had been in the house before, although given how memorable he was socially, that wasn't likely.

I teach at a small university, in a suburban neighborhood and without Greek culture. From time to time, there are known party houses and nothing good comes of it. But law enforcement here would not be nearly so understanding about the noise, the underage drinking, and the absence of a tenant during a party. I know the father of one resident of such a party house and it cost thousands to put the place right when they moved out.

So I think the first issue is for students and their parents to think of places where their kids live at college as their home for the duration of a school year and for students to treat their home in terms of security as they would treat living in an apartment after graduation. Just locking doors and not allowing people unlimited access would be a start. Like you, I'm in no way blaming these kids for what happened to them. A monster took advantage of their naivety and trust in the world. But it would be a way to positively remember these victims if students and their parents paid attention to security.
 
  • #1,030
GH is still working on an animation. This is Part 1, new version.

I purposefully waited until morning to post it here because it's just so eerie and real, the stuff of nightmares and I didn't want it to wind up in yours.

It's 20 minutes, but it loops -- BK going upstairs, XK seeing the open slider, gping upstairs where she encounters BK... all the while GH overlays Morrison from Dateline for narration.

Well done. Chilling as hell.

***ETA. He doesn't depict the violence, just implies it.

JMO

wow, this was very well done and I’m looking forward to seeing the rest when he’s finished with it. Thanks for sharing.

Also seeing a lot of posts recently about people changing their minds all the time regarding various aspects of this case. This video has me considering something I had completely brushed off before- the idea that he left the sheath behind on purpose…..

if he wasn’t intending to leave it, why would he have thoroughly (*almost* perfectly) cleaned it off…? Just as a precaution? Maybe. But the question of why would he have cleaned it ahead of time had NEVER once occurred to me before! 😱 JMO
 
  • #1,031
wow, this was very well done and I’m looking forward to seeing the rest when he’s finished with it. Thanks for sharing.

Also seeing a lot of posts recently about people changing their minds all the time regarding various aspects of this case. This video has me considering something I had completely brushed off before- the idea that he left the sheath behind on purpose…..

if he wasn’t intending to leave it, why would he have thoroughly (*almost* perfectly) cleaned it off…? Just as a precaution? Maybe. But the question of why would he have cleaned it ahead of time had NEVER once occurred to me before! 😱
You wouldn't think a student studying criminology would purposefully leave anything behind, but ....

He did hide the purchase (poorly).

We still don't know what his plan was... a single murder, a murder on each floor, slaughter everyone.

But it's worth considering-- had the variables not been in place (KG, Murphy, Door Dash), it's entirely likely that BK could have slipped in and out undetected, murdering MM in near silence.

Nothing to awaken DM. No witness.

The only thing tying BK immediately to the crime, the Elantra. No sheath, no DNA.

Would he have struck again? IMO undoubtedly.

If he had just killed MM, would he have left the sheath?

It either got left behind accidentally or it was intentional. BK knows the principle of transfer --

But....if he thought he'd sterilized it, if he thought he buried his purchase, maybe he would have. To make a statement. Confuse the investigation but also hail himself as a super Marine.

Budding serial killer who did a lousy job at point of entry -- didn't know who was where -- bludgeons three additional victims in order to escape after the first. Or mass murderer bent on taking multiple lives, just probably expected more order to it.

The questions that hang in the ether -- had he not left his DNA on the sheath -- would he have killed again and would he have left another sheath behind?

Student of Bundy, it's like BK forgot to roll the calendar ahead 50 years, forgot everything he'd read about DNA, CCTV, CAST...

JMO
 
  • #1,032
JMO as the trail approaches. The "standing silent" is to me a preview of how unhelpful and defiant BK will be. It is especially striking, again JMO, because his previous rather recent history was one of siding with the law, with police, with straight-arrow behavior and even majoring in Criminal Justice. I think we will see, during the trial, glimpses of his real self, not the facade he put on for awhile. I think his disdain for law and for goodness will be on display. We will see. MOO
 
  • #1,033
Absolutely zero.

Dudes a textbook case of SPITR syndrome.
I honestly believe the trial and all of the legal stuff is all a part of his living fantasy or whatever it is too.
He's gonna be sat there squirming in his underpants during trial, getting his creepy little rocks off each time someone gets something wrong or not quite correct, he's gonna buzz off the things the state haven't figured out or mentioned.
He's probably looking forward to trial more than we are, the supercilious ghoul.

MOO
Probably not only enjoying the trial but simultaneously sublimating his desire to blurt out correct prosecution when they get a detail wrong.
 
  • #1,034
I know that several here believe that BK left the KaBar knife sheath behind intentionally, as some sort of signature, or as some piece of evidence that might steer the investigation away from him, and in the direction of looking perhaps for a suspect with a military background, but that is an idea that I just cannot get on board with, at least at this point. I am sure that BK studied serial killers, and I do believe that he was fascinated with them, especially maybe with Bundy, and I feel pretty certain that had he not been caught, he likely would have killed again before now, and perhaps several more times, but I do believe the King Road murders were his first, and I think it, for him, was more like an entrance exam than a final exam, in the course of serial murder. I think he wanted to keep it as simple as possible, hence a knife that he could hardly fail to kill someone with, and the knowledge of the house and occupants that likely came from frequent surveillance. I think he planned to get in, do a murder, perhaps more, and get out and away. I think a calling card may have been something that he grew into, if that makes sense, as he planned additional star-gazing escapades.

I do respect differing opinions on this, but I think leaving the sheath behind was a mistake, even with surprisingly no DNA on it other than his, and only on the snap, and may be the only reason we are having this discussion right now. JMO
 
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Considering how quickly AT wrote and submitted her lengthy, detailed continuance, a conspiracy-minded person might think the defense had something to do with the leaks.

Of course, writing this new motion would have made it impossible to seek actual evidence for the alternate perpetrators, so she’ll need more time for that, too.

I know there will be a detailed investigation of the leaks, but hopefully Hippler will facilitate a special prosecutor to take care of it while trial prep continues.

IMO

ETA:

Actually, this motion to continue looks to have been written well ahead of the leaks, with one added statement about the leaks in the intro, and a final section addressing the leaks added to the body of the motion.

How many times can AT beat a dead horse?
 
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  • #1,037
In that 40 page motion, Kohberger’s defense team makes their case for a trial continuance.

“…due to the substantial amount of trial
investigation and preparation still outstanding, as well as recent and forthcoming publicity that is
highly prejudicial to the defense.”

Among other things they say they need more time to prepare for the penalty phase, and argue that the passage of time will mitigate some of the damage inflicted by the Dateline broadcast and James Patterson’s forthcoming book, which is scheduled to be released two weeks before the trial was set to begin.

I don’t know how the judge doesn’t grant this (penalty phase issues are their best argument), so it looks like there will not be a trial this summer.
 
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  • #1,038
In that 40 page motion, Kohberger’s defense team makes their case for a trial continuance.

“…due to the substantial amount of trial
investigation and preparation still outstanding, as well as recent and forthcoming publicity that is
highly prejudicial to the defense.”

Among other things they say they need more time to prepare for the penalty phase, and argue that the passage of time will mitigate some of the damage inflicted by the Dateline broadcast and James Patterson’s forthcoming book, which is scheduled to be released two weeks before the trial was set to begin.

I don’t know how the judge doesn’t grant this (penalty phase issues are their best argument), so it looks like there will not be a trial this summer.
Any chance that he will deny the motion to continue, but will take the death penalty option away instead? Could this be a roundabout way for AT to get it off the table?
 
  • #1,039
Judge Hippler can't decide anything until he knows from whence the leads came, can he?

Granting a continuance only provides more time for more publicity. Seems like a surefire way to be gifted continuance into perpetuity.

JMO
 
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Thank you, @SpiderFalcon.

I see that in the Motion to Continue, pp.15-17, the defense is claiming that:

Bryan’s mother, as a young teenager, drank alcohol. Therefore BK may have FETAL ALCOHOL SYNDROME and they need to pursue family history going back three generations to find out if alcoholism is the root cause of his problems. Also they note they have to interview everyone more than once because people may remember a different detail at another time.

IMO this is utterly outrageous.

ETA: It’s been pointed out to me that the defense was using this as an example, and not about BK’s mom in particular.

I’ve recognized this mistake below somewhere. My fault for skimming quickly and not reading every page.

However, I’m leaving this post here so others who’ve skimmed or didn’t get to read it at all can have insight into AT’s mindset, and how the defense plans to stall the case now.

Personally I’m counting on Judge Hippler for his wise decisions.
 
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