4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #87

[North_Idaho_Nony]

I was disappointed, but not surprised by the Judge's ruling in the Motion to Stay for the extra 37 days, even though BK has not waived his right to a speedy trial. I liked the State's response, basically saying 'you can't keep asking for a continuance, and then say your rights to a speedy trial were violated'. I'm glad that got it on record with the motion. I believe these motions are going to be heard on Aug 18th?

Court is supposed to begin on Oct 2nd? Plus, they have 37 days (if needed). Does anybody feel like either side will be ready to go at that point?

MOO

Yes, I'm perpetually behind, but if anyone thinks the trial will start on 10/2, I have some lovely oceanfront property in Idaho for sale, LOL.

 

[SortaSleuthy]

I've never seen a shred of evidence that being vegan "is known to help" with VSS (or any other neurological disorder). Indeed, I believe the scholarly evidence says the opposite (mostly "no known help from diet" but also "perhaps made worse through vegetarianism/veganism - not specifically for VSS but for neurological/neurochemical disorders, of which VSS is just one).

The only person I know of who has said veganism helps is...Bryan Kohberger. On TapATalk. Fibromyalgia (which may or may not be a neurological disorder) is supposedly helped by raw vegetarian/vegan diet (according to just one study). And, certainly, a plant-based diet does help with certain metabolic disorders (insulin-resistance in particular). VSS is not a metabolic disorder.

I don't even see much juried research on whether diet helps VSS at all. The only study I can find that had benefits for sufferers focuses on sleep hygiene (including use of sleep medications - the sleeplessness makes the psych symptoms worse; the anxiety and depression eased with more sleep - so the idea is that VSS sufferers should not embrace their insomnia, but try to improve their sleep).

I believe the protected information in this case is the genetic data of the relative of Kohberger, who has nothing to do with this case, is not going to be a witness, and whose data is about to be explored by the Defense, if the Defense gets its way. That's my take, anyway.

JMO.

God! I’m so glad you are here!

 

[x_files]

Just like Richard Allen places himself at the bridge in Delphi!

BINGO! Because Richard Allen was SEEN there and cannot deny he was at the bridge that day and had no other albi to prove otherwise. The same with BK.

 

[10ofRods]

Dr. Charles Shidofsky, OD, FCOVD a well known neuro-developmental optometrist known for successfully treating VSS and other disorders says that he believes that an anti-inflammatory diet is a huge part in managing visual snow symptoms. People come to him from all over America because of the success of his regimen and he also treats professional sports teams. Veganism is the most anti-inflammatory diet there is. I agree there have been no medical studies about this, however.

That's an interesting thought about the genetic data. Thanks for these thoughts!

I can't quite agree about veganism being the "most anti-inflammatory" diet that there is. There's a lot of research being done, but the general conclusion is that fruit/vegetables high in certain compounds are anti-inflammatory (whether the person is vegan or vegetarian - and there are likely some benefits, immunity wise, to the vegetarian rather than the vegan option).

I personally cannot trust the opinion of an optometrist on this. VSS is *not* a disorder of the eyes. People do want hope, of course. I'd like to see actual research.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/07315724.2015.1080105

Is one bit of research - it's actually a literature review. The compounds known to be anti-inflammatory work whether a person is vegan/vegetarian/pescatarian or a regular old user of the American diet. Cutting down on inflammatory compounds (such as high fructose corn syrup) helps more, but the mere addition of the Omega fatty acids mentioned also help. Most people are low in Omega 3 in particular.

Anti-Inflammatory Diets and Fatigue

Accumulating data indicates a link between a pro-inflammatory status and occurrence of chronic disease-related fatigue. The questions are whether the observed inflammatory profile can be (a) improved by anti-inflammatory diets, and (b) if this improvement can in turn be translated into a...

www.mdpi.com

(full text - several dietary components isolated through research). Lack of protein is identified as a cause of inflammation (and fatigue). Most B-12 supplements are derived from animal proteins, but there is promising new research about an (expensive) supplement derived from marine algae.

This article is well footnoted - and so far, eating Nori is not able to provide vegans with a sufficient amount of B-12.

7 Nutrients You Can’t Get from Plants

Learn about 7 nutrients that you cannot get from commonly consumed plant foods. Vegetarians and vegans may be deficient in some of them.

www.healthline.com

Creatine must be put into the vegan diet (there are plant-based concentrates that make creatine bio-available, but foods themselves cannot provide enough). It's this particular nutrient that I'm pondering, as it is essential for brain functioning. Carnosine is another element in which vegans test out to be low. Supplements needed there, too.

Which makes me wonder if Kohberger was the type of vegan to research all this and to take supplements.

IMO.

 

[Chloegirl]

I can't quite agree about veganism being the "most anti-inflammatory" diet that there is. There's a lot of research being done, but the general conclusion is that fruit/vegetables high in certain compounds are anti-inflammatory (whether the person is vegan or vegetarian - and there are likely some benefits, immunity wise, to the vegetarian rather than the vegan option).

I personally cannot trust the opinion of an optometrist on this. VSS is *not* a disorder of the eyes. People do want hope, of course. I'd like to see actual research.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/07315724.2015.1080105

Is one bit of research - it's actually a literature review. The compounds known to be anti-inflammatory work whether a person is vegan/vegetarian/pescatarian or a regular old user of the American diet. Cutting down on inflammatory compounds (such as high fructose corn syrup) helps more, but the mere addition of the Omega fatty acids mentioned also help. Most people are low in Omega 3 in particular.

Anti-Inflammatory Diets and Fatigue

Accumulating data indicates a link between a pro-inflammatory status and occurrence of chronic disease-related fatigue. The questions are whether the observed inflammatory profile can be (a) improved by anti-inflammatory diets, and (b) if this improvement can in turn be translated into a...

www.mdpi.com

(full text - several dietary components isolated through research). Lack of protein is identified as a cause of inflammation (and fatigue). Most B-12 supplements are derived from animal proteins, but there is promising new research about an (expensive) supplement derived from marine algae.

This article is well footnoted - and so far, eating Nori is not able to provide vegans with a sufficient amount of B-12.

7 Nutrients You Can’t Get from Plants

Learn about 7 nutrients that you cannot get from commonly consumed plant foods. Vegetarians and vegans may be deficient in some of them.

www.healthline.com

Creatine must be put into the vegan diet (there are plant-based concentrates that make creatine bio-available, but foods themselves cannot provide enough). It's this particular nutrient that I'm pondering, as it is essential for brain functioning. Carnosine is another element in which vegans test out to be low. Supplements needed there, too.

Which makes me wonder if Kohberger was the type of vegan to research all this and to take supplements.

IMO.

While well put, thousands and thousands of people eat different diets (vegan and otherwise) and it doesn't explain their actions. His VSS and veganism should not be considered and we should really go on his actions, holding him accountable for them, not his advantages/disadvantages. Visual disorders and eating habits are not relevant to murderous actions. JMOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I went down the rabbit hole of VVS Studies and learned that the area people who had were most affected by was their DRIVING, especially at night. Sound familiar doesn't it?

I think BK obviously knew the way to the house having been by their many times before so he could have turned off his phone or put it on airplane mode no problem.

I think he took back roads (PCA) afterwards to dispose of evidence and he would have needed to turn it on because it was unfamiliar territory and he couldn't chance getting lost.

MOO

 

[Balthazar]

While well put, thousands and thousands of people eat different diets (vegan and otherwise) and it doesn't explain their actions. His VSS and veganism should not be considered and we should really go on his actions, holding him accountable for them, not his advantages/disadvantages. Visual disorders and eating habits are not relevant to murderous actions. JMOO

Actually, a new study has shown that VSS appears to be a regional imbalance in brain chemistry. New brain scan study discovers possible biological basis of visual snow syndrome

Its would be interesting to extend this study to the US prison population and see what the results are for those prisoners who suffer from visual snow.

 

[10ofRods]

While well put, thousands and thousands of people eat different diets (vegan and otherwise) and it doesn't explain their actions. His VSS and veganism should not be considered and we should really go on his actions, holding him accountable for them, not his advantages/disadvantages. Visual disorders and eating habits are not relevant to murderous actions. JMOO

I'm not trying to explain anyone's actions. My point is that there's no medical evidence (aside from what I quoted in the previous post) that anything about diet affects VSS. And the evidence for that was merely self-report (belief) of a few sufferers who thought gluten made them worse. Naturally, with an illness that is almost always accompanied by anxiety and depression, there could be a lot else going on.

But it's not an inflammatory disease, it's an imbalance in brain chemistry, and there is no known diet that affects it. Humans, OTOH, do like feeling that *something* works, which is why many of us do try various diets or supplements. In fact, my own recent illness was predicated by my belief that my diet was being helpful, when in fact, it was the opposite and now I have to revisit my beliefs. Pretty common.

Depersonalization and derealization (two common symptoms of VSS) do indeed influence people's actions. I find it highly relevant, so we can agree to disagree. There are never full explanations of any human behavior, but of all the range of human behavior, the one I'd like to know most about are the conditions that cause murder and mayhem. That's why I read the literature on psychiatric symptoms.

IMO. I'm just trying to understand the brain/mind connection.

Nothing I have written has anything to do with accountability, and I hope others are not reading my posts that way.

 

[Rumination1]

IIRC, BTK's plea bargain required him to fess up. It was a guilty plea, but it wasn't just a guilty plea. It was a plea bargain.

BK has also been compared to Joe DeAngelo (EARONS; GSK; Visalia Ransacker). DeAngelo also plead guilty as part of a plea bargain (no death penalty; life in prison - which for him will likely be actual life in prison). DeAngelo was not required to tell his version of events.

In Kohberger's case, his two options (LWOP or DP) put him perilously close to DP. However, if he really fears the DP, he can definitely try to plea bargain. Sometimes criminal defendants and their lawyers wait until after jury selection to this, but there's no guarantee that the State will offer a bargain. If the State is worried about that "one juror" who might believe BK's version of events (whatever that will be), they might be amenable to such a bargain. It would put BK behind bars for the rest of his natural life.

IMO.

What if he fears Lwop more than the dp?

Perhaps he wants this game with the death penalty result because he wants to go out this way

He did after all cross state line for this

 

[katydid23]

Another argument could be that there is someone else who has the same DNA in which case are they going to go on a wild goose chase looking for BK's identical twin!?

I guess the defence is preparing an argument that the sheath could have been contaminated with BK's DNA somehow and / or that BK has been set up. If so, that would require a whole explanation and narrative. I guess it's always slightly possible that BK was set up but had he been so, it wouldn't be difficult to prove.

I don't think the police could have set him up because they turned in that sheath for DNA testing way before they ever knew who BK even was.

The same thing with someone else framing him. They would have had to kill the students, plant the sheath, AND make sure that BK was out alone driving, in the area of the crime scene, and do a 3 point turn by the death house as well.

 

[katydid23]

Well, if BK was at a party at the house, then his defense attorneys lied when they said there was no connection between him and the murder victims. Nothing surprising about that, of course.

MOO

If he was at a party at the house previously, and the killers knife sheath just randomly got his touch DNA on the tiny button--pretty coincidental that he also just happens to drive the same kind of car seen at the crime scene that night, and he also coincidentally was driving around alone in the area all night, after turning off his phone.

 

[Rumination1]

So about Indian Hills Rd.
Its the natural turn around (via Aloce Ave.) if one was been driving on Southview Ave just east of 95 buttgen decided to go to 1122 King Rd.
There is a popular student apartments complex on Southview called the Grove.

S. Nevada Pullman 2:47
700 Indian Hills Rd. 3:26
39 minutes travel time

Google maps trip estimate is 24 minutes.

Seen the grove mentioned befire

Perhaps he went there looking for them then realised they were home
Or perhaps he had a target at the grove but then he decided to go to king

 

[10ofRods]

What if he fears Lwop more than the dp?

Perhaps he wants this game with the death penalty result because he wants to go out this way

He did after all cross state line for this

I've thought about that too and frankly, I think this is part of the picture. You and I are of course merely speculating. We may never know.

His anguished posts as a teen-ager and his use of heroin argue that his mental states were precarious and his description of how derealization/depersonalization was ruining his life is very close to sounding suicidal. He finds it hard to think of himself as human, as actually alive. I doubt he's any better, right now. I have no clue how AT or other Defense attorneys would cope with a client who might actually want the death penalty.

I believe he knew there was no insanity defense in Idaho and that it was a death penalty state.

IMO.

 

[Chloegirl]

I'm not trying to explain anyone's actions. My point is that there's no medical evidence (aside from what I quoted in the previous post) that anything about diet affects VSS. And the evidence for that was merely self-report (belief) of a few sufferers who thought gluten made them worse. Naturally, with an illness that is almost always accompanied by anxiety and depression, there could be a lot else going on.

But it's not an inflammatory disease, it's an imbalance in brain chemistry, and there is no known diet that affects it. Humans, OTOH, do like feeling that *something* works, which is why many of us do try various diets or supplements. In fact, my own recent illness was predicated by my belief that my diet was being helpful, when in fact, it was the opposite and now I have to revisit my beliefs. Pretty common.

Depersonalization and derealization (two common symptoms of VSS) do indeed influence people's actions. I find it highly relevant, so we can agree to disagree. There are never full explanations of any human behavior, but of all the range of human behavior, the one I'd like to know most about are the conditions that cause murder and mayhem. That's why I read the literature on psychiatric symptoms.

IMO. I'm just trying to understand the brain/mind connection.

Nothing I have written has anything to do with accountability, and I hope others are not reading my posts that way.

VSS symptoms aside, I will do the thread a favor and completely digress on the discussion of veganism and plant-based nutrients and protein (it is like screaming into the void anyway). JMOO

 

[schooling]

If he was at a party at the house previously, and the killers knife sheath just randomly got his touch DNA on the tiny button--pretty coincidental that he also just happens to drive the same kind of car seen at the crime scene that night, and he also coincidentally was driving around alone in the area all night, after turning off his phone.

He should play the lotto. He’s way more likely to win that than he is being innocent.

 

[maskedwoman]

Actually, a new study has shown that VSS appears to be a regional imbalance in brain chemistry. New brain scan study discovers possible biological basis of visual snow syndrome

Its would be interesting to extend this study to the US prison population and see what the results are for those prisoners who suffer from visual snow.

Just to add a little levity to this topic, I misread this my first time through and assigned regional the geographic meaning. I was amazed that a brain chemistry issue could be traced to certain parts of the country. Then the rest of my brain kicked in. LOL

 

[Balthazar]

I don't think the police could have set him up because they turned in that sheath for DNA testing way before they ever knew who BK even was.

The same thing with someone else framing him. They would have had to kill the students, plant the sheath, AND make sure that BK was out alone driving, in the area of the crime scene, and do a 3 point turn by the death house as well.

I completely agree. No way was it planted. Logically, the ways his DNA could have gotten on the sheath is
1. IF he came in contact with the sheath sometime and somewhere before the murders (not during the murders as there are apparently no other samples of his DNA at the scene, so it likely wouldn't have happened at 1122 King Rd - it would have had to happen before he put on the gloves he must have worn to prevent other touch DNA in the house, IF he is guilty.)
2. OR, if he is innocent, the real murderer came in contact with BK at some point and unknowingly transferred BK's DNA to the sheath at some point or even unknowingly came into contact with BK's DNA on some object such as exercise equipment or a table or something and then handled the sheath unknowingly transferring BK's DNA to the sheath.
3. OR, the ONLY other possibility I can think of is a DNA lab mistake as described by Dr. Leah Larkin. So I really feel this line of inquiry needs to be explored. I don't want it to turn into a cause for appeal if he is tried and found guilty because appeals are expensive. I'd rather this entire question be explored now BEFORE trial to put it to rest once and for all.

Anyone have any other ideas of how his DNA got on the sheath outside of these ideas?

All JMO.

 

[kittythehare]

I completely agree. No way was it planted. Logically, the ways his DNA could have gotten on the sheath is
1. IF he came in contact with the sheath sometime and somewhere before the murders (not during the murders as there are apparently no other samples of his DNA at the scene, so it likely wouldn't have happened at 1122 King Rd - it would have had to happen before he put on the gloves he must have worn to prevent other touch DNA in the house, IF he is guilty.)
2. OR, if he is innocent, the real murderer came in contact with BK at some point and unknowingly transferred BK's DNA to the sheath at some point or even unknowingly came into contact with BK's DNA on some object such as exercise equipment or a table or something and then handled the sheath unknowingly transferring BK's DNA to the sheath.
3. OR, the ONLY other possibility I can think of is a DNA lab mistake as described by Dr. Leah Larkin. So I really feel this line of inquiry needs to be explored. I don't want it to turn into a cause for appeal if he is tried and found guilty because appeals are expensive. I'd rather this entire question be explored now BEFORE trial to put it to rest once and for all.

Anyone have any other ideas of how his DNA got on the sheath outside of these ideas?

All JMO.

yeah.
Just 1.

He cleaned the sheath prior to his alleged trip to the house.
He omitted the snap, easy mistake.
Result- arrest.

 

[MyBelle]

I've thought about that too and frankly, I think this is part of the picture. You and I are of course merely speculating. We may never know.

His anguished posts as a teen-ager and his use of heroin argue that his mental states were precarious and his description of how derealization/depersonalization was ruining his life is very close to sounding suicidal. He finds it hard to think of himself as human, as actually alive. I doubt he's any better, right now. I have no clue how AT or other Defense attorneys would cope with a client who might actually want the death penalty.

I believe he knew there was no insanity defense in Idaho and that it was a death penalty state.

IMO.

BBM. Interesting point! Could his motive be a variation on suicide by cop? I have no idea.

JMO

 

[Jurisprudence]

This touch DNA is invisible to the naked eye. It is huge hill for the defense to climb to suggest that someone wiped the entire sheath free of everything else while "knowingly" leaving a spot of touch dna on the inside of the button snap - touch dna that is invisible to the naked eye.

Yes! These nefarious actors who attempted to frame him are in fact so gifted and intelligent that they can actually achieve this! It just seems ludicrous to me. It defies logic unless they have some other "reasonable" explanation.

jmo