Why would defence file such a Motion?
How do they justify it?
I really have no patience with all this!
If he was innocent, then surely trial would prove it, no?
Aargh!!!!
JMO
4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #91
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How do they justify it?
I really have no patience with all this!
If he was innocent, then surely trial would prove it, no?
Aargh!!!!
JMO
I do hope so - and even if it doesn't, let's look at it from the opposite viewpoint: in the unlikely (IMO) event that BK gets off, that could well increase the families' pain. A conviction would at least prevent that. IMO
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You can hear for yourself on one of the Motions. January 26th at 1:00pm open hearing on one of the Motions. ORDER DENYING MOTION TO DISMISS INDICTMENT FOR INACCURATE INSTRUCTIONS TO GRAND JURYWhy would defence file such a Motion?
How do they justify it?
I really have no patience with all this!
If he was innocent, then surely trial would prove it, no?
Aargh!!!!
JMO
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First, the Defense is filing all of these motions because they know the evidence points to BK being guilty. The point of filing motion after motion is to create possibilities to appeal the verdict or request a new trial after he's convicted. They are playing the very long game. Idaho is a death penalty state.Why would defence file such a Motion?
How do they justify it?
I really have no patience with all this!
If he was innocent, then surely trial would prove it, no?
Aargh!!!!
JMO
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I've been reading a book, Crime of the Century, about the 1966 mass murder of 8 student nurses in a Chicago townhouse by a man named Richard Speck. While of course there are many differences between the Chicago case and the deaths of these 4 kids from Idaho, looking at older cases helps me with thinking about the range of possibilities, from motives to how a killer manages to control and murder 8 people to why the prosecution or the judge or the defense makes certain choices.
It's striking that the 1966 went to court much faster and the trial itself didn't even take 2 weeks. I have no evidence to back up this point, but modern forensics can make identifying and processing evidence before trial seems to make trials take longer. There's DNA and blood spatter and hairs and fibers and shoe prints, on and on. In high profile cases, defense attorneys want to put as much time between the crime and the trial as they can; witnesses forget things, they move away, they change their story, they lie, they're intimidated by someone. And they make motion after motion to create potential issues for appeal.
In the 1966 case, there was no issue about a jury visit to the crime scene, where 8 victims had been stabbed and strangled. The prosecution used a dollhouse size model that became a sensational visual aid when the lone survivor testified. They also brought in a door from the town house that had 2 of Speck's fingerprints. Today, the 3-D type models would be much more helpful in helping the jury visualize the scene as it was or to illustrate the prosecution theory of the case.
Finally, regarding tearing down the house: the last part of the book talked about how years later (when the book came out) the surviving victim, the families, the students who lived in the adjacent townhouse, the police officers and the prosecutors never really "healed" in some ways. The nurse who survived said 50 years later, that she still had nightmares. In an interview, one family member said, "I'm still devastated. One year or twenty it's all the same. My mother...was totally destroyed." Years later, a classmate said, "I was afraid to sleep alone, to drive or to go out at night."
I point this out to say that it's impossible to overestimate the trauma that the family members (probably going into the next generation) are experiencing. But there are many others who experienced trauma as a result of this monstrous murder. (I mean "monstrous" in also its etymological root, meaning to "warn.") The student nurses in that class and that school were forever changed by the killings, which "warned" them that people like Speck exist. The boyfriends, the fiancés, their teachers, hospital personnel, first responders all lived with what happened or what they saw in that house for life.
It was the right thing to do to tear down the King Rd. house once it was clear that there is no more evidence to come from that place. And it will be the right thing to put up a memorial, wherever that goes. There's a needed balance between (1) turning a murder house into a tourist attraction for ghouls and a constant trigger for those who are already traumatized and (2) forgetting what happened to the victims there. It's best for the students on the campus, for the neighbors, for the community and the university. It's best for some of the families, too.
It's striking that the 1966 went to court much faster and the trial itself didn't even take 2 weeks. I have no evidence to back up this point, but modern forensics can make identifying and processing evidence before trial seems to make trials take longer. There's DNA and blood spatter and hairs and fibers and shoe prints, on and on. In high profile cases, defense attorneys want to put as much time between the crime and the trial as they can; witnesses forget things, they move away, they change their story, they lie, they're intimidated by someone. And they make motion after motion to create potential issues for appeal.
In the 1966 case, there was no issue about a jury visit to the crime scene, where 8 victims had been stabbed and strangled. The prosecution used a dollhouse size model that became a sensational visual aid when the lone survivor testified. They also brought in a door from the town house that had 2 of Speck's fingerprints. Today, the 3-D type models would be much more helpful in helping the jury visualize the scene as it was or to illustrate the prosecution theory of the case.
Finally, regarding tearing down the house: the last part of the book talked about how years later (when the book came out) the surviving victim, the families, the students who lived in the adjacent townhouse, the police officers and the prosecutors never really "healed" in some ways. The nurse who survived said 50 years later, that she still had nightmares. In an interview, one family member said, "I'm still devastated. One year or twenty it's all the same. My mother...was totally destroyed." Years later, a classmate said, "I was afraid to sleep alone, to drive or to go out at night."
I point this out to say that it's impossible to overestimate the trauma that the family members (probably going into the next generation) are experiencing. But there are many others who experienced trauma as a result of this monstrous murder. (I mean "monstrous" in also its etymological root, meaning to "warn.") The student nurses in that class and that school were forever changed by the killings, which "warned" them that people like Speck exist. The boyfriends, the fiancés, their teachers, hospital personnel, first responders all lived with what happened or what they saw in that house for life.
It was the right thing to do to tear down the King Rd. house once it was clear that there is no more evidence to come from that place. And it will be the right thing to put up a memorial, wherever that goes. There's a needed balance between (1) turning a murder house into a tourist attraction for ghouls and a constant trigger for those who are already traumatized and (2) forgetting what happened to the victims there. It's best for the students on the campus, for the neighbors, for the community and the university. It's best for some of the families, too.
D
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Where was the DNA from these unidentified persons recovered from? Obviously not from the knife sheath like BK's DNA."
Court documents, filed by attorneys for the 28-year-old PhD student last week, argue that DNA from two other men was also found inside the off-campus student home in Moscow, Idaho.
DNA from a third unknown man was also found on a glove found outside the property on 20 November – one week on from the murders, the documents state.
“By December 17, 2022, lab analysts were aware of two additional males’ DNA within the house where the deceased were located and another unknown male DNA on a glove found outside the residence on November 20, 2022,” Mr Kohberger’s attorney Jay Logsdon writes in the filing."
Bryan Kohberger claims DNA from three other men found at scene of Idaho murders
Mr Kohberger’s attorneys are fighting against the state’s use of genetic genealogy to tie him to the brutal murders of Kaylee Goncalves, Madison Mogen, Ethan Chapin and Xana Kernodlewww.the-independent.com
JMO.
Was it from innocuous objects like a drinking glass used at a party?
JMO.
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The one in 14 is a carbon monoxide detector I'm almost certain. It looks identical to the one in my family room. Almost looks like a doorbell in the other picture. That one is kinda hard to see well.
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DNA was taken from a discarded cigarette but we don't know if it is the DNA from the 2 unidentified male DNA samples found in the house. I'm surprised there are only 2 unknown male DNA samples from inside the house. I suspect this is because most of the DNA found was identified through LE obtaining DNA samples from various people.
Also, LE believes Bryan is the only one who committed these 4 heinous crimes.
"....police were investigating many various possible suspects. Many of them provided DNA," Logsdon writes. "At least one had his DNA surreptitiously taken from a discarded cigarette. Many also had their phones taken and downloaded."
Bryan Kohberger Says DNA From 3 Men, Mystery Glove at Murder Scene
Kohberger and his lawyer filed this objection because they are seeking a detailed breakdown of how genetic genealogy was utilized to help the FBI initially identify Kohberger as a person of interest in the case.
www.insideedition.com
At a news conference Police Chief James Fry says he believes Kohberger is the only suspect.
"What I can tell you is that we have an individual in custody who committed these horrible crimes," he says, "and I do believe our community is safe."
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Which families should be listened to then? Some family members wanted it torn down. Some very vocal family members didn't. So whose opinions should be disregarded?
IMO no opinions were "disregarded". They were weighed with genuine concern/caution and hefty consideration. Obviously impossible to please everyone but doesn't mean anyone's opinion was disregarded.
The University only benefited by having that house gone. They needed to remove the blight, and understandably so. In my mind, though, none of the families' opinions were really going to influence the U either way. However, since EC's family still has attending students (E's siblings), it could appear the U might have put more weight on their opinion, but I think it only served to support their desire to make all the students feel better, and allow the U to make a less ominous space in its place. I get it. They couldn't have left a boarded up house there forever.
I guess the University decided a year is enough time for the other families to come to terms with that house and let it go, even though they have yet to see justice served for their kids. Since both legal sides were on board, the U jumped at the opportunity and the families who had concerns about the house being evidence have pretty much been told they are wrong in their assessment and the comfort of the U students takes precedence. Again, I get it.
I don't like it, but I get it. The murders will always be part of the U's story now, unfortunately, but they will move on, whether the house had stayed up for another year or two or not. JMO.
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A former prosecutor's perspective plus another attorney on capital case appellate process and angles regarding the demolition
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Video cut for brevity, it's in the post above.
These experts are sure saying some different things from what we've been discussing! I'm not a particularly good sleuther and my knowledge of criminal law is shaky, so I hear these arguments adn think "Good points. I didn't think of that." So I will leave the analysis and back-and-forth to others here on the forum who have more knowledge, understanding and experience.
MOO
Conditions at 1122 King Road? Dangers?
"It is possible they suited up after entering and desuited before exiting."
Yes, absolutely possible.
"Perhaps there were health hazards present, IMO they were exaggerated. The other arguments for demolition were stronger. JMO"
Totally agreeing.
Agan TYVM.
@@Nila Aella. Thanks for your response, links & photos, and your two observations I'm quoting below.
"It is possible they suited up after entering and desuited before exiting."
Yes, absolutely possible.
"Perhaps there were health hazards present, IMO they were exaggerated. The other arguments for demolition were stronger. JMO"
Totally agreeing.
Agan TYVM.
Apparently, there wasn't enough of a health hazard in that house to make this man wear protective clothing or even a mask right in the middle of the demolition debris and dust. That jumped out at me.
A Moscow jury will likely be shown 3D imaging of the home where 4 UI students were killed. Here's how it works
A Moscow jury will likely be shown 3D imaging of the home where 4 UI students were killed. Here's how it works
"Powerpoint" near the Baseboard at 1122 King?
Then realized that in OZ, NZ, etc. powerpoint likely refers to AC power plugs and sockets.
ETA: discussion about the "mystery" item close to baseboard started w this post.
www.websleuths.com
My brain initially leapt to Powerpoint, the slide show/ presentation software program by Microsoft. ^ American thinking ^
Then realized that in OZ, NZ, etc. powerpoint likely refers to AC power plugs and sockets.
ETA: discussion about the "mystery" item close to baseboard started w this post.
4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #91
That wouldn't work if the dog was in there, because if the perpetrator had been in that room, it would be considered part of the crime scene, and we know Murphy was not in the crime scene. If he was somewhere else in the home, fair enough. MOO If the dog was used to lots of random people being...
www.websleuths.com
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Looks like a wifi booster to me. Others have said could also be for hard cabling a computer (or both, as most boosters can do both). Perfect for shared wifi throughotu a 3 story student house. IMO.
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Yeah that's why I posted it.
When I last looked - on Friday - the discussion here on the demo was very different to the discussion on other sites by other commentators so I just wanted to add some counterpoints although I was limited by ToS approved links
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Respectfully bolded by me.
Valuable and insightful post! So much has changed since those days - which are not so long ago. It's very hard to get legal precedent rolled back, so I haven't been joking when I say I'll be surprised if this goes to trial in 2024 - or even 2025. And it could be the most dragged-out case in popular memory, because there are plenty more pre-trial motions (and even appeals) that could be filed.
I agree with your conclusion as well. I had a further thought. Since all university and college campuses are keen to prevent student depression, anxiety and suicide, I feel as if UofI took the right step. I think they're going to put the memorial on the main campus, which is lovely, rather than commemorate the death site.
It's the "constant trigger" part that you mention that concerns me. Suicidal students go various places to contemplate their fate. And I am including actions by young, depressed students that might not to be overtly suicidal - but quasi-suicidal (such as walking for miles on a cold night into territory they are unfamiliar with or drinking to unconsciousness - which is always a high risk for other consequences, even though students try hard to ignore that).
I think chapels and contemplation spaces that emphasize mindfulness and serenity are a counter-balance. A murder house is not, it's a trigger, as you say. "I wish I could be dead," is the way suicidality often starts. Identifying with dead people can also be involved. "At least they are at peace," students will say.
The horror and keen sense of responsibility that all decision-makers on campus would feel, if anything happened to endanger one more student, is acute. IMO. It's part of mourning to bury the dead and memorialize them in ways that are life-affirming. By "endanger" I mean a basket of things that could get (and may already be) associated with the house. There are still-attending students who were heavily traumatized by these murders, probably entire sororities and fraternities, and many others. There are real effects on student mental health, IMO, of these murders and no one knows exactly how to mitigate that. Tearing the house down seems a good move for many reasons, IOW.
JMO.
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Yes, exactly. Powerpoint is used by most people here to refer to the panel on the wall you plug things into. Only ours are shaped a little different than yours, to prevent people plugging in international devices not designed for our voltage. That's why you always have to buy converter plugs when you travel overseas. Every country does it a little differently."Powerpoint" near the Baseboard at 1122 King?
My brain initially leapt to Powerpoint, the slide show/ presentation software program by Microsoft. ^ American thinking ^
Then realized that in OZ, NZ, etc. powerpoint likely refers to AC power plugs and sockets.
ETA: discussion about the "mystery" item close to baseboard started w this post.
4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #91
That wouldn't work if the dog was in there, because if the perpetrator had been in that room, it would be considered part of the crime scene, and we know Murphy was not in the crime scene. If he was somewhere else in the home, fair enough. MOO If the dog was used to lots of random people being...
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