4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #91

[x_files]

I’ve wondered this same thing, if he’s so “criminally smart”, how in world can expect to sexually assault without leaving any any dna. It seems that dna hard to control as it seems to shed constantly in hair, saliva, sweat, skin cells, transfer from other surfaces into your clothes and easier every day to link to perpetrator. Even with gloves, total body suit, or wet suit over another. Unless his idea was to humiliate or hurt.

Thinking seeing masked man leaving house would invoke different emotions from masked man entering house alone.
Also
Would think that housemates give each other privacy, say if a man walked a housemate home after night out, and left house you would NOT expect to get housemate calling 911.
I think we will hear a lot of reasons why persons might be so tired which are not party related. Perhaps person did big 10k run the day before, or studied all night for an exam or finish a paper then went out to celebrate and looking forward to sleeping in late late late.
They will all be able to say where they were, with whom and who were texting for every minute of day til asleep. Sleeping late because house so quiet. (I’m one for thinking dog is like mine, when stressed, stays very still and quiet for days around fireworks celebrations, thunder. Doesn’t want to leave the house, eat or pee.)

BK going to rely on his big fat ZERO alibi. Zero life for days up to & after his crimes. (Doing nothing other than changing his car’s registration and showering without a shower curtain and other not quite right stuff. )

However, many rapes are unsolved every day in America, he may have thought if his DNA isn't in the CODIS they'd NEVER find him if he did leave any behind.
Or lie that they were on a date..date rape is harder to prove in a court of law...but ultimately I think his fantasy was pure sadist in nature.

 

[Cool Cats]

However, many rapes are unsolved every day in America, he may have thought if his DNA isn't in the CODIS they'd NEVER find him if he did leave any behind.
Or lie that they were on a date..date rape is harder to prove in a court of law...but ultimately I think his fantasy was pure sadist in nature.

The difference between a knife killing vs a gun is that a knife is considered much more personal. Note that hit men and cartels normally use guns.

The fact that Kohberger used a knife changes things in my mind. Why not just shoot a victim outside in the parking lot? Why go in the house when this is 20 times more risky for many reasons and 20 times more risky to touch victims and get their blood on you etc....

If he simply wanted someone dead, to be quite frank, there are less riskier ways to go about it.

The fact that he brought a large knife into a private residence with the intent to - do what he did - is not a far cry from having plans to physically and/or sexually assault his victims.

Not a far leap to think he may have had some intent in that direction. However, from what we know he did not touch them in any way before stabbing them, which is all that matters.

Opinion plus link.

https://isfma.com/legal-rights/four-classifications-of-crime-according-to-criminal-la

Four Classifications of Crime According to Criminal Law​

Personal​

As its name suggests, personal crimes are crimes committed against a person, which affects them either physically or psychologically. Rape, assault, and murder are examples of personal crimes. Robbery, which is also categorized as a crime against property, is also considered a personal crime in that it causes physical and emotional distress to the victim.

 

[katydid23]

I’ve wondered this same thing, if he’s so “criminally smart”, how in world can expect to sexually assault without leaving any any dna. It seems that dna hard to control as it seems to shed constantly in hair, saliva, sweat, skin cells, transfer from other surfaces into your clothes and easier every day to link to perpetrator. Even with gloves, total body suit, or wet suit over another. Unless his idea was to humiliate or hurt.

I don't think he was accused or charged with any sexual assaults in this case. Am I wrong about that?
In my opinion, in this weird case, I think BK got a sexual thrill from the stabbing itself. So no need to do an actual rape.

 

[Cool Cats]

I don't think he was accused or charged with any sexual assaults in this case. Am I wrong about that?

In my opinion, in these weird case, I think BK got a sexual thrill from the stabbing itself. So no need to do an actual rape.

There is no indication at all that BK laid a hand on any victim before stabbing them. Pure speculation about his motivation. I believe his motivation was complicated and even he might not be able to fully explain it without talking to a professional.

The coroner saw some bruising on some victims but she said it is to be expected when someone is stabbed. So she did not say there was any sign of BK doing anything else...2 Cents

 

[whiterhino]

The difference between a knife killing vs a gun is that a knife is considered much more personal. Note that hit men and cartels normally use guns.

The fact that Kohberger used a knife changes things in my mind. Why not just shoot a victim outside in the parking lot? Why go in the house when this is 20 times more risky for many reasons and 20 times more risky to touch victims and get their blood on you etc....

If he simply wanted someone dead, to be quite frank, there are less riskier ways to go about it.

The fact that he brought a large knife into a private residence with the intent to - do what he did - is not a far cry from having plans to physically and/or sexually assault his victims.

Not a far leap to think he may have had some intent in that direction. However, from what we know he did not touch them in any way before stabbing them, which is all that matters.

Opinion plus link.

https://isfma.com/legal-rights/four-classifications-of-crime-according-to-criminal-la

Four Classifications of Crime According to Criminal Law​

Personal​

As its name suggests, personal crimes are crimes committed against a person, which affects them either physically or psychologically. Rape, assault, and murder are examples of personal crimes. Robbery, which is also categorized as a crime against property, is also considered a personal crime in that it causes physical and emotional distress to the victim.

RBBM to say bringing a large hunting knife to a private residence would also indicate premeditation. As you said, indicates his intention.

IMO the entire thing was a thrill on some level, whether that level was sexual or not... I'm thinking it very well might have been. Not just the use of a knife as some kind of substitute but the perversion of sneaking around, breaking in, watching people as they slept etc.

JMO.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

If he simply wanted someone dead, to be quite frank, there are less riskier ways to go about it.

I don't think he actually wanted any particular person to be dead -- rather I think he felt compelled to know, psychologically speaking, what it felt like to kill.

I also think he arrogantly felt like he could "win the game" of carrying out such a crime without getting caught. (obviously he was wrong on that).

One thing that always fascinates me, psychologically, are the criminals who confess. Not as a strategy to avoid the death penalty, but apparently due to the internal pressure of keeping up the facade. Whatever mental impulse there is to "get it over with" and tell the truth. Or because they can't find the satisfaction of having accomplished their goal if they aren't publicly recognized as the doer. Obviously I'm speculating about all of these states but I believe I've read a bit about this too.

Anyway, where I'm going with this is -- whatever that strong compulsion is that makes some "break down and confess", I speculate that BK doesn't have a good handle on that phenomenon and how to resist it, and I don' think we really know how strong the confession temptation might be for him.

It seems like a no-brainer that someone would maintain their claims of innocence barring a good strategic reason to confess, but we see confessions often when there is no such compelling strategy, so I conclude the psychological temptation to come clean must exist, at least for some.

And so I wonder how well BK will resist that temptation, especially once the trial begins.

I also will not be overly surprised if he takes his own life before or during trial.

MOO

 

[Cool Cats]

I don't think he actually wanted any particular person to be dead -- rather I think he felt compelled to know, psychologically speaking, what it felt like to kill.

I also think he arrogantly felt like he could "win the game" of carrying out such a crime without getting caught. (obviously he was wrong on that).

One thing that always fascinates me, psychologically, are the criminals who confess. Not as a strategy to avoid the death penalty, but apparently due to the internal pressure of keeping up the facade. Whatever mental impulse there is to "get it over with" and tell the truth. Or because they can't find the satisfaction of having accomplished their goal if they aren't publicly recognized as the doer. Obviously I'm speculating about all of these states but I believe I've read a bit about this too.

Anyway, where I'm going with this is -- whatever that strong compulsion is that makes some "break down and confess", I speculate that BK doesn't have a good handle on that phenomenon and how to resist it, and I don' think we really know how strong the confession temptation might be for him.

It seems like a no-brainer that someone would maintain their claims of innocence barring a good strategic reason to confess, but we see confessions often when there is no such compelling strategy, so I conclude the psychological temptation to come clean must exist, at least for some.

And so I wonder how well BK will resist that temptation, especially once the trial begins.

I also will not be overly surprised if he takes his own life before or during trial.

MOO

Usually confessions are from the initial police interrogation because the officer presses just the right buttons or because the defendant wants a plea deal, you usually have to plead guilty to get your plea deal.

BK did not let himself get interrogated but many do. And as you noted, some break down and confess because of what you say,

confession temptation

I have never heard of this before but it makes sense.

Then you have this:

https://www.science.org/content/article/psychologist-explains-why-people-confess-crimes-they-didn-t-commit

This psychologist explains why people confess to crimes they didn't commit​

Ingenious experiments have shown how standard police questioning applies psychological pressure​

 

[Bogbacal2]

I wonder if the jurors will have a different opinion of BK after they see the crime scene/bodies. You can instruct a jury, tell them to focus on the facts not opinion or bias, but, imo, after seeing the crime scene photos, I would not look at him the same way.

 

[Boxer]

I wonder if the jurors will have a different opinion of BK after they see the crime scene/bodies. You can instruct a jury, tell them to focus on the facts not opinion or bias, but, imo, after seeing the crime scene photos, I would not look at him the same way.

Agree, his DNA being there, in the bed with bodies, on the sheath of the murder weapon will change the discussion from theory to the reality of what it's presence means.

 

[TL4S]

I don't think he actually wanted any particular person to be dead -- rather I think he felt compelled to know, psychologically speaking, what it felt like to kill.

I also think he arrogantly felt like he could "win the game" of carrying out such a crime without getting caught. (obviously he was wrong on that).

One thing that always fascinates me, psychologically, are the criminals who confess. Not as a strategy to avoid the death penalty, but apparently due to the internal pressure of keeping up the facade. Whatever mental impulse there is to "get it over with" and tell the truth. Or because they can't find the satisfaction of having accomplished their goal if they aren't publicly recognized as the doer. Obviously I'm speculating about all of these states but I believe I've read a bit about this too.

Anyway, where I'm going with this is -- whatever that strong compulsion is that makes some "break down and confess", I speculate that BK doesn't have a good handle on that phenomenon and how to resist it, and I don' think we really know how strong the confession temptation might be for him.

It seems like a no-brainer that someone would maintain their claims of innocence barring a good strategic reason to confess, but we see confessions often when there is no such compelling strategy, so I conclude the psychological temptation to come clean must exist, at least for some.

And so I wonder how well BK will resist that temptation, especially once the trial begins.

I also will not be overly surprised if he takes his own life before or during trial.

MOO

I picture some time after the trial, after (and if) he's convicted and things have quieted down, that's when he'll start to talk. When his name isn't in the news anymore, and nobody cares about him, that's when he'll want doctors to come research him, so he can be interesting again. This is just my intuition and opinion, of course.

I really don't think he will kill himself or confess before trial, either, but who knows. I'm thankful I can not see inside his mind, that's for sure.

 

[TL4S]

I wonder if the jurors will have a different opinion of BK after they see the crime scene/bodies. You can instruct a jury, tell them to focus on the facts not opinion or bias, but, imo, after seeing the crime scene photos, I would not look at him the same way.

I think so too. When they see the layout of the house, and see exactly how somebody would have had to move around that house to do what was done, in the dark, it might really be striking how familiar the killer had to be. Then if there is enough persuasive digital evidence to put BK at or near, within observable range from the house at least a dozen times before, and maybe SM and other digital connection to the girls and house, as well, it could start to look like a rather well-worn path between BK and where his DNA ended up. Seeing the crime scene photos, the result of this inappropriate familiarity, could then feel like the horrible end to an uncomfortably long story. Just my own thoughts.

 

[x_files]

The difference between a knife killing vs a gun is that a knife is considered much more personal. Note that hit men and cartels normally use guns.

The fact that Kohberger used a knife changes things in my mind. Why not just shoot a victim outside in the parking lot? Why go in the house when this is 20 times more risky for many reasons and 20 times more risky to touch victims and get their blood on you etc....

If he simply wanted someone dead, to be quite frank, there are less riskier ways to go about it.

The fact that he brought a large knife into a private residence with the intent to - do what he did - is not a far cry from having plans to physically and/or sexually assault his victims.

Not a far leap to think he may have had some intent in that direction. However, from what we know he did not touch them in any way before stabbing them, which is all that matters.

Opinion plus link.

https://isfma.com/legal-rights/four-classifications-of-crime-according-to-criminal-la

Four Classifications of Crime According to Criminal Law​

Personal​

As its name suggests, personal crimes are crimes committed against a person, which affects them either physically or psychologically. Rape, assault, and murder are examples of personal crimes. Robbery, which is also categorized as a crime against property, is also considered a personal crime in that it causes physical and emotional distress to the victim.

Yes, I agree a knife is far more up close and personal.
This crime makes me think of Ted Bundy breaking into the Florida Sorority House, he used a log and other blunt objects but he was in a RAGE, the crime was motivated by sexual sadism/pure rage.
If BK wanted to just break in and kill everyone in the house a gun would be a much easier choice or if he was interested in infamy a mass shooting or a school shooting would be much easier too.
He wanted to get away with this crime and prove he outsmarted the LE and justice system. He wants to prove his superior intelligence to everyone.

 

[katydid23]

Yes, I agree a knife is far more up close and personal.
This crime makes me think of Ted Bundy breaking into the Florida Sorority House, he used a log and other blunt objects but he was in a RAGE, the crime was motivated by sexual sadism/pure rage.
If BK wanted to just break in and kill everyone in the house a gun would be a much easier choice or if he was interested in infamy a mass shooting or a school shooting would be much easier too.
He wanted to get away with this crime and prove he outsmarted the LE and justice system. He wants to prove his superior intelligence to everyone.

Yes, this case reminds me of Bundy and the sorority and also Richard Speck and the nursing students he killed in a very similar way.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Yes, I agree a knife is far more up close and personal.
This crime makes me think of Ted Bundy breaking into the Florida Sorority House, he used a log and other blunt objects but he was in a RAGE, the crime was motivated by sexual sadism/pure rage.
If BK wanted to just break in and kill everyone in the house a gun would be a much easier choice or if he was interested in infamy a mass shooting or a school shooting would be much easier too.
He wanted to get away with this crime and prove he outsmarted the LE and justice system. He wants to prove his superior intelligence to everyone.

I agree he wanted the up close and personal killing with the knife, but he would also have known there would absolutely no way he could have killed those 4 with a gun without sounding the alarms of roommates and even close neighbors.

JMO

 

[schooling]

Yes, I agree a knife is far more up close and personal.
This crime makes me think of Ted Bundy breaking into the Florida Sorority House, he used a log and other blunt objects but he was in a RAGE, the crime was motivated by sexual sadism/pure rage.
If BK wanted to just break in and kill everyone in the house a gun would be a much easier choice or if he was interested in infamy a mass shooting or a school shooting would be much easier too.
He wanted to get away with this crime and prove he outsmarted the LE and justice system. He wants to prove his superior intelligence to everyone.

You're pretty much describing my personal (MOO) takeaways from the book I just read about BTK.

He got an immense amount of satisfaction from just the manual hands on aspects of the murders. That in and of itself gave him sexual gratification the majority of the time.

This is why trying to place ourselves in BKs shoes and saying 'he was too smart to do this' or 'I would do that' is going to fail 9 times out of 10 IMO. The suffering of others is not gratifying to me and I have a tremendous amount of impulse control. Luckily for me I only have to exercise on it on the chocolate chip cookies in the pantry.

 

[Cool Cats]

Oh, I think DM is going to be put through the wringer by the Defence. They need to discredit her testimony and they’re going to come after her hard.

As for BF, she hasn’t got much to say so as far as we currently know, she saw nothing and heard nothing, unless LE is holding back something.

It will be interesting to see if the Prosecution asks DM why she didn’t call LE so much sooner. If they don’t open that door the the Defence can’t go down that road to discredit her.

DM is going to have a rough go. I hope they do a lot of trial prep with her.

MOO

I know I'm the only one but I do not think the defense will want to do alot of questioning of her in the sense of aggressively trying to discredit her. Everything is done, her testimony has already been given in the police reports and I do not believe she is going to change any of it.

All that stuff she did or didn't do after she woke up had nothing to do with BK. Look, BK was long gone. Nothing anyone did at that point changed what BK did.

What matters is what she told police about what time it was when she heard noises, heard a voice, saw a scary man, and then went into a scared frozen shock state - locking her door. The time matters and then her descriptions matter. Her description of exactly what she saw, heard, emotionally felt, and then what she did.

As for discrediting her, how can they? Her being frozen in shock will prove to the jury that yes! She saw a scary guy. To be in a frozen shock state proves she saw something scary.

What are they going to say?

"You just imagined everything" "No you did not see a scary man in a mask" "No you did not feel scared" "No you did not feel like you were frozen in shock" "No you did not lock your door."

The longer they question her the more sympathetic she looks to the jury. Her being scared of what she saw in her hallway at 4-ish in the morning will really hit home with the jury.

If the defense gets aggressive with her and she then gets emotional - missing her friends - it will only anger the jury and make the jury believe every word she says, all in my opinion.

2 Cents

 

[girlhasnoname]

I still think the prosecution will still call DM if not just for the story of the noises and the bushy eye brows and body style.

Yes, the defense could have some good cross examination of her, but her being truthful as to being "unsure", "tipsy", "tired", "confused" or whatever... that the jury will certainly understand that.

The not calling until the next morning should be okay... after all, DM did not see a knife, blood or anything else that would have told her she was looking at a man that just murdered her roommates. She only saw a stranger with a mask walk by her room. if she didn't go back to sleep until 4:30AM, it is understandable for her not to wake up until Noon the next day.

Just because she can't positively identify him (as happens in many cases), she can give a general description.


We will see.


I think there will be a mountain of small circumstantial evidence at the trial... but also a large dose of the DNA that will be critical.

Agreed, I also wonder if DM picked BK out of a photo lineup at some point once LE learned he drove a WE? That would be key if she did. The Defense may have coiffed his brows for hearings, etc. but there will be plenty of pics showing his untamed bushy eyebrows before the murders, maybe even his DMV photo?

EBM: Spelling

JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

Agreed, I also wonder if DM picked BK out of a photo lineup at some point once LE learned he drove a WE? That would be key if she did. The Defense may have coiffed his brows for hearing, etc. but there will be plenty of pics showing his bushy eyebrows before the murders, maybe even his DMV photo?

JMO

Yes his drivers license photo showed bushy eyebrows and it helped identify him.

How Bryan Kohberger's eyebrows helped police link him to ...

Kohberger is charged with four counts of first-degree murder and one count of felony burglary in connection with the killings of four college students.

www.newsweek.com

 

[Balthazar]

Agreed, I also wonder if DM picked BK out of a photo lineup at some point once LE learned he drove a WE? That would be key if she did. The Defense may have coiffed his brows for hearings, etc. but there will be plenty of pics showing his untamed bushy eyebrows before the murders, maybe even his DMV photo?

EBM: Spelling

JMO

I hope such a photo lineup WAS done. If DM picked BK out of a photo lineup BEFORE LE went public about him, it would be a key piece of evidence proving his guilt, if I were a juror. But at the same time, there is a risk to such a photo lineup. What if they did a photo lineup and DM didn't recognize BK at all or pointed to someone else entirely? JMO.

 

[Boxer]

RBBM to say bringing a large hunting knife to a private residence would also indicate premeditation. As you said, indicates his intention.

IMO the entire thing was a thrill on some level, whether that level was sexual or not... I'm thinking it very well might have been. Not just the use of a knife as some kind of substitute but the perversion of sneaking around, breaking in, watching people as they slept etc.

JMO.

A knife for compliance common enough.
He may have calculated (informed calculation as its his degree area) A simple rape in a party house

I hope such a photo lineup WAS done. If DM picked BK out of a photo lineup BEFORE LE went public about him, it would be a key piece of evidence proving his guilt, if I were a juror. But at the same time, there is a risk to such a photo lineup. What if they did a photo lineup and DM didn't recognize BK at all or pointed to someone else entirely? JMO.

She said he wore a mask.
MOO The key characteristic of bushy eyebrows will likely need to stand alone.