Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #199

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  • #481
An abusive spouse kills the love in a marriage.
Addicts kill their own spirit.
A cruel teacher kills the love of learning.

A person who has failed in such a miserable way as RA could say he killed his family - they are no longer intact, no longer doing well, no longer look forward to an enjoyable future as a family unit.

jmo
As a 'figure of speech' you say?

IMO, I'd agree - especially when he is allegedly making that comment while in discussion with his mental health expert that factually knows, and he knows that she factually knows, that he did not kill any members of his family.

Context is great ... and serves as a bleaching agent when required. Tomorrow is the day that the actual evidence begins to come out.

Time is ticking and time will tell.

All JMO, IMO.
 
  • #482
In the linked video below, Retired FBI profiler J Douglas doesn't think "down the hill' is an Order by the suspect (RA) but a comment by one who is very familiar with the what/where and his desired location he wants to lead the girls towards. Douglas begins at about the 3:00 min mark
I'd agree with that possibly if it wasn't for the fact Abby is heard saying, (paraphrasing) Is that a gun? Does he have a gun? And then a gun is heard being chambered/cocked. That makes it a direct order in my mind, MO
 
  • #483
What time does the trial start? It’s time for justice for these sweet girls.

‘Typical days for jurors will begin in the courtroom at 9 a.m. and work through to noonish with a morning break. Gull said she typically gives 90 minutes for lunch ― sometimes longer, sometimes shorter. The afternoon sessions will have a break and usually end by 6 p.m., but sometimes longer, Gull said.

They will work Monday through Friday, and from 9 a.m. to noon on Saturday.’

 
  • #484
‘Typical days for jurors will begin in the courtroom at 9 a.m. and work through to noonish with a morning break. Gull said she typically gives 90 minutes for lunch ― sometimes longer, sometimes shorter. The afternoon sessions will have a break and usually end by 6 p.m., but sometimes longer, Gull said.

They will work Monday through Friday, and from 9 a.m. to noon on Saturday.’

Wow. I guess the longer hours are because they're sequestered. Have court dark days or shorter days, and they're just sequestered longer.
 
  • #485
I'd agree with that possibly if it wasn't for the fact Abby is heard saying, (paraphrasing) Is that a gun? Does he have a gun? And then a gun is heard being chambered/cocked. That makes it a direct order in my mind, MO
He detained them without their consent - that is the kidnapping charge right there.

jmo
 
  • #486
I'd agree with that possibly if it wasn't for the fact Abby is heard saying, (paraphrasing) Is that a gun? Does he have a gun? And then a gun is heard being chambered/cocked. That makes it a direct order in my mind, MO
Do we know if that added part by Abby is in the same audio string? I've not heard but the initial 'down the hill' release.

ETA: My understanding is the video and audio is a total of 43 seconds but we know that the video includes suspect walking on the bridge planks, but it doesn't follow that the 'down the hill' audio, and the gun being chambered sound would be at the same location where we see "bridge guy" walking on the planks. Hence my initial question if all in the same 43 seconds without pause. JMO

 
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  • #487
The Monon High Bridge Trail looks a little different than it did in 2017 when Libby and Abby went missing.

We revisited the bridge today ahead of Friday’s first day of #RichardAllen’s trial.

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  • #488
DELPHI MURDER CASE LATEST:

This morning the jury of 8 women and 4 men were sworn in.They are currently on their way to a hotel in Lafayette before opening statements tomorrow. Reminder they will be sequestered for the length of the trial.

Judge Gull took under advisement the prosecution's motion to exclude the 2 “suspect” sketches. She also took under advisement the defense motion to bring in a witness to discredit bullet analysis.

She will allow prison guards and inmates to testify about Allen’s behavior and comments while in custody.

The defense withdrew their motion for the jury to visit the crime scene.

Delphi Council confirmed to us they voted to approve an additional $2.2 million this morning, bringing the total for the trial to $4.3 million.
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  • #489
I could do jury duty. I could sequester. I can do without internet, as long as I was given approved entertainment. What I could not do is not see my child for a month. I would be a sobbing mess. I see no reason to torture the jury. They all have rules that we have to assume they will abide by. I will bet the last thing they want to talk about will be the trial. More like, how was Halloween? Can I see your costume?
Does anyone read books anymore? Jurors could bring their own book to read and the state would not need to provide any entertainment. But maybe that's too old school.
 
  • #490
Opening statements in the Delphi murder trial will begin Friday in Carroll County, Indiana. Richard Allen is charged with four counts of murder in connection to the killings of Abby Williams and Libby German in February 2017.MORE: https://trib.al/VO58onP

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  • #491
The Monon High Bridge Trail looks a little different than it did in 2017 when Libby and Abby went missing.

We revisited the bridge today ahead of Friday’s first day of #RichardAllen’s trial.

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New and improved bridge and area or not, it will always give the same horrible chills down my spine to look at. :(
 
  • #492
This scenario has two similarly dressed BGs, Killer BG and RA BG. Killer BG has passed RA undetected by RA. (And any of the other witnesses, unless some of them saw Killer BG but not RA BG. For sure, nobody still living saw two males.)

RA puts himself on the first platform. BB’s testimony seems to confirm this, and adds that Abby and Libby were approaching the bridge at that time.
RSBM

I wasn’t here at the beginning so I’m unsure if it has already been established that BG=the murderer? It has been verified the full video of BG including “Down the Hill” audio was 43 seconds (PCA; WTHR article). I’m guessing that implies BG is the killer? My interpretation of this is that the entire video is BG walking towards the girls then saying “Down the Hill”; BG would have walked closer to them before directing them down the hill. If the video is only BG walking forward and saying down the hill, why wasn’t the entire 43 second video release? Presumably as BG walked towards them, his face would have been more clear as he got closer. I don’t really understand, am I missing something? BB’s sketch doesn’t look like the guy in the BG video, and her description doesn’t fit (sourced in more detail below).

If BG is RA, it contradicts BB’s testimony. BB helped illustrate Sketch #2 (released 2 years after she illustrated what she say 3 days after the murders) which looked nothing like RA:
IMG_1219.jpeg
(Hill, 2019)

Quoted the Memo linked below, p. 105-108, 115-117

bbm

BB’s first description of the man she saw on the bridge was memorialized in sketch #2 illustrated on February 17, 2017 (3 days after the girls were found) but not released to the public until April 22, 2019 - following Superintendent Doug Carter's press conference.

On February 17, 2017, BB met with State Police sketch artist Taylor D. Bryant and provided a description of the man she observed from 50 feet away on the Monon High Bridge - the same man that Liggett claimed in his affidavit was the killer. BB told the sketch artist that the man she BB observed was:

  • A white male
  • Age 20
  • Had Brown Curly Hair,
  • Medium build
Find attached and marked as Exhibit 103 the unredacted "Facial Identification Reference Sheet" (filed as confidential) that contains the description that BB provided to the sketch artist. Also, find attached a copy of the sketch that Taylor D. Bryant produced from BB's description of the man she observed on the bridge, marked as Exhibit 104. This illustration is also called "sketch #2" (because it was released to the public second). Upon looking at the sketch, BB told the sketch artist that the illustration was a "10 out of 10" for accuracy.

The Unified Command did not release the BB sketch to the public for over two years. Instead, they first released the SC sketch, also called "sketch #1" (because it was released to the public first).

Roughly two years later, in March 2019, BB met with Tony Liggett, frustrated that her sketch (sketch #2) had not been released to the public. BB was frustrated because sketch #1, which had been released to the public almost two years before, did not match the man that she (BB) observed on the high bridge. BB even commented that sketch #1 was "wrong." <snip>

During her March 7, 2017, interview, BB was talking with two members of Unified Command: Kevin Hammond and Tony Liggett At this interview, BB told Liggett, face-to-face, that the man she (BB) observed on the high bridge fit the following description:


-The man was slender and youthful looking.

-He was more "boyish" looking.

-The man was in his 20s to early 30s.

-His hair seemed "poofy" just as the sketch portrayed.


-He had no facial hair, that she can remember.

Finally, on April 22, 2019, Unified Command released BB’s sketch #2 to the general public. In fact, upon its release, Superintendent Doug Carter commented that the man in BB’s sketch #2 was "responsible for the murders " Also, at the time of the release of sketch #2, Doug Carter also stated that sketch #1 had now become "secondary" to the investigation.”


According to documents, if BB saw BG, then it wasn’t BG in the video; if BG=BB’s eyewitness testimony specifically, he is too young to be RA and doesn’t look like him. Just my opinion from the documentation available to the public.

Sources:

PCA

Delphi murders trial length comes to a head in dueling documents between defense and judge​


Two sketches released in Delphi murders are not of the same man, Indiana State Police say (Hill, 2019)​


D memo page 105-108; 115-117
https://www.scribd.com/document/672126677/DELPHI-Memorandum-in-Support-of-Motion-

Exhibits cited:
144 BB's 10 out of 10 comment is memorialized in a report identified as "Incident No. 17-0091-S03. This 10 out of 10 wording can be found in the second full paragraph. Find attached the unredacted report marked as Exhibit 105.

145 Find attached a screenshot from WTHR news (Indianapolis) showing the release of sketch #1, Exhibit 106

146 See exhibit 105 (Incident No. 17-0091-S03) last sentence of second paragraph.

147 Find attached a flash drive containing BB's March 7, 2019, interview with Tony Liggett, marked as Exhibit 107. BB states that sketch #1 with the "golf hat" is "wrong" at the 11:37:55 mark.

148 Liggett's affidavit, marked as Exhibit 108, and also Exhibit 107 at the 11:42:10 mark.

149 Liggett's Affidavit for Search Warrant.

150 Exhibit 107 at the 11:42:10 mark.

151 Find attached Doug Carters' April 22, 2019, press conference in which BB’s sketch #2 is unveiled to the public. It is marked as Exhibit 109.
 
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  • #493
Does anyone read books anymore? Jurors could bring their own book to read and the state would not need to provide any entertainment. But maybe that's too old school.
Yes, that's me -- still fall asleep drooling on the pages of a real book, sometimes two -- no tech required. BTW, Matt Murphy's (former Orange County DA) "Book of Murder" is a must have! :cool:
 
  • #494
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  • #495
LG's video is circumstantial imo, given no one seems to have called LE and named him as the man in the video (moooooo). We've been over my issues and concerns with his "confessions" so I won't relist them here again. Just have to hope to learn a lot more about the entire case before I'd be willing to put RA in prison for the rest of his life.... I'm open to hearing both sides and considering whatever is presented... MOOOOO.
A video is direct evidence.
 
  • #496
I could do jury duty. I could sequester. I can do without internet, as long as I was given approved entertainment. What I could not do is not see my child for a month. I would be a sobbing mess. I see no reason to torture the jury. They all have rules that we have to assume they will abide by. I will bet the last thing they want to talk about will be the trial. More like, how was Halloween? Can I see your costume?
Last year, retired Judge Belvin Perry (Casey Anthony) talked about how they took care of the sequestered jurors, and their weekend visitors.

Belvin Perry - Click_Orlando
 
  • #497
Do we know if that added part by Abby is in the same audio string? I've not heard but the initial 'down the hill' release.

ETA: My understanding is the video and audio is a total of 43 seconds but we know that the video includes suspect walking on the bridge planks, but it doesn't follow that the 'down the hill' audio, and the gun being chambered sound would be at the same location where we see "bridge guy" walking on the planks. Hence my initial question if all in the same 43 seconds without pause. JMO

Yes it was. Mentioned in the PCA and the interview with Anna Williams, who said LE played the audio for her.


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  • #498
He was seen and admits to being on the bridge platform.
RSBM

Is there a witness that claimed to see RA specifically? TIA
 
  • #499
He quite literally confessed to killing his family, saying “I killed my family”

I don’t understand what is subjective about this?

Jmo
You've never heard people use that word symbolically?

It just 'kills' me when my little grand baby cries. Does it really kill me?

He said " I killed my family ' to his psychologist, who KNEW his family was not murdered. He knew they were not murdered as well.

He was not using the word literally.

Tell me, after he 'confessed' to the prison psychiatrist, did she call authorities to do a wellness check on his family?
 
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  • #500
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