Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #204

[tlcya]

It said he was drunk and the wife needed assistance getting him to the hospital. “Domestic incident” would simply mean that something happened inside of a home. IMO

yes and the officers were only there to "keep the peace" which presumes there was some sort of unrest that required peacekeeping. I doubt the causer of the unrest was the not noted as drunk KA who was later allowed to take her husband to the hospital. JMO

 

[m00c0w]

Sorry, I feel certain I’m missing something or reading this wrong, could you (or someone) please help this fool out?

Is what you’re saying that the force with which someone racks the slide actually affects the marks on it? If so, I would think the entire exercise of trying to match racked/ejected bullets goes totally out the window based on that variable alone.

And she fired the round found at the scene thru RA’s gun, and compared that with a different round fired through RA’s gun? Of course the fired rounds are going to match, they’re fired from the same gun!

Like, I fully believe RA is guilty and that the round found at the scene was his, but IF I have this right (which honestly I don’t think I do haha) then none of this bullet/cartridge business does anything for me.

She did not fire the original crime scene round through any firearms. It was left intact. It is used for comparative purposes only.

What I am saying with my analogy is, imagine a rake in a zen garden. If you remove a tine from the rake, that makes the rake distinct. Firearms are similar in that they come with all sorts of unique microscopic defects from the manufacturer. This is usually where you see breechface markings come into play, but in theory toolmark analysis from ejector and extractor would be similar.

Back to the rake, it's missing a tine. If you lightly graze the rake over the sand in the zen garden, you'll see some ridges but it might not be apparent at first that the tine is missing. If you take a second zen garden and drag the rake through with more force, you'll notice that there is now a distinct lack of a tine. Which allows you to go back and look at the first zen garden to see if evidence of the same missing tine is there.

This is oversimplified, but the concept is the same. Metal rubbing on metal leaves toolmarks and striations. Defects in the gun will cause unique patterns to be formed. In theory, the force of the slide moving should not affect the actual pattern, just how apparent the pattern is.

I am not a forensic firearm expert, nor have I ever played one on TV. This is just my take on it, being familiar with firearms and the general concept behind the toolmark analysis.

My opinions only.

 

[MassGuy]

The investigation of these brutal murders of 2 amazing young girls infuriates me. I don’t so much have a problem with the crime scene misses, but I REALLY want to know who ‘cleared’ RA and when. Does he have a friend who protected him? It’s a small town and RA knew a lot of people from CVS, billiards, the bar. I don’t think we will know during this trial — the testimony and cross have moved right along past this file. But if I was a family member of AW of LG, or on the jury, the questions and misses around the earliest part of the investigation would haunt me.

It really sounds like an incredibly stupid mistake. I definitely don't see anything nefarious going on. This was a massive, sprawling investigation, and those early days and weeks would have absolutely overwhelmed any police department, let alone a small one (despite outside assistance).

Thank God for Kathy Shank!

 

[ClearAhead]

Very comprehensive explanation of the testing, ejecting and everything inbetween found here, too long to paste it all.

Delphi Murders Trial: Day 7 | Gun Examiner: Bullet found at crime scene had been in Richard Allen's gun

Day seven of the Delphi Murders Trial began with testimony from Melissa Oberg, former firearms examiner for the Indiana State Police.

www.wrtv.com

 

[Web_Sleuth]

I tend to wonder if RA was actually shocked that LE didn’t track him down sooner. If he truly is guilty, he had to feel like things were closing in on him, esp if he realized he left a bullet behind, heard about the video and recording of his voice, talked to LE about being there. At that point a phrase like “why bother, it’s over” would sound more like the end of a long charade was “over”. All just stuff swirling in my brain
JMO

 

[Deleted member 229974]

The investigation of these brutal murders of 2 amazing young girls infuriates me. I don’t so much have a problem with the crime scene misses, but I REALLY want to know who ‘cleared’ RA and when. Does he have a friend who protected him? It’s a small town and RA knew a lot of people from CVS, billiards, the bar. I don’t think we will know during this trial — the testimony and cross have moved right along past this file. But if I was a family member of AW of LG, or on the jury, the questions and misses around the earliest part of the investigation would haunt me.

 

[TristanP]

I just voted. It’s big for “guilty,” which I view as good. But it only takes one “I don’t know” juror out of 12 to get a mistrial. It’s better than 11 to 1 against “not guilty” but nothing close to that against “I don’t know.”

Not

This thing about him going to the grocery store is brand new to me. It was originally reported as Allen declining to meet at his house, and declining to meet at the police station. They settled in the grocery store.

That is a different version of events, and I agree, less meaningful. Where was this from?

One of the 20,000 sources I’ve read lol

 

[justtrish]

Sorry, I feel certain I’m missing something or reading this wrong, could you (or someone) please help this fool out?

Is what you’re saying that the force with which someone racks the slide actually affects the marks on it? If so, I would think the entire exercise of trying to match racked/ejected bullets goes totally out the window based on that variable alone.

And she fired the round found at the scene thru RA’s gun, and compared that with a different round fired through RA’s gun? Of course the fired rounds are going to match, they’re fired from the same gun!

Like, I fully believe RA is guilty and that the round found at the scene was his, but IF I have this right (which honestly I don’t think I do haha) then none of this bullet/cartridge business does anything for me.

I understand it to mean the the force used changes how visible the marks are. It does not change the pattern of where/how far apart, etc the marks are.. which is similar to a fingerprint. Think of going to get fingerprinted. The harder you push your finger down the more visible the print is.. your fingerprint does not change if you push harder or softer, but it's easier to see if you push harder. Ejecting the round leaves the marks specific to that gun. Firing it leaves those same marks, but darker and easier to see see for comparison purposes. Firing it also leave additional marks, but it doesn't change the markings made by the ejection.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Thank you. I'll just note that this article doesn't say that RA was "out of control." We don't know what the nature of the incident was, per the article you linked. No charges were filed.

As always, JMO.

The sheriff’s office was dispatched just after 3:30 in the morning on June 18, 2015, according to records obtained by FOX59. The sheriff said Allen was allegedly drunk and his wife took him to a Lafayette-area hospital for a medical evaluation.

Sheriff Leazenby said no law enforcement action was involved other than responding to “keep the peace.”

Deputies responded to Delphi suspect’s home for domestic issue to ‘keep the peace’

MEXICO, Ind. — The Carroll County Sheriff’s Office confirmed that deputies were sent to Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen’s home in 2015 for a “domestic” incident. The she…

fox59.com

 

[MassGuy]

Very comprehensive explanation of the testing, ejecting and everything inbetween found here, too long to link.

Delphi Murders Trial: Day 7 | Gun Examiner: Bullet found at crime scene had been in Richard Allen's gun

Day seven of the Delphi Murders Trial began with testimony from Melissa Oberg, former firearms examiner for the Indiana State Police.

www.wrtv.com

This is a very weak counter argument for the defense. I'm sure they had better ones that we haven't heard of, but this one is not at all effective. This research would be true of all handguns, as they are made essentially the same way, and have the same type of components.

Oberg cited numerous studies in her findings. She admitted the research was not for the identical model or the extractor in Allen's pistol. Oberg said the data she collected from Allen's gun — combined with research cited on the manufacturing process — allows her to feel confident the .40 caliber Smith & Wesson cartridge found at the crime scene had been in Allen's gun.

Defense Attorney Brad Rozzi objected to Oberg's testimony arguing the examples cited were not for the exact model of Allen's gun. Judge Gull chose not to overrule them, saying she would let the jury decide how to weigh the studies.

 

[Boxer]

I’m curious to know - was it ever verified that the shots catfish account related to KAK actually contacted either of the girls on 2/13? I just never recall reading anything final regarding that.

KK wiped the relevant phone.

 

[dub]

she didn't fire the cartridge from the crime scene. she fired rounds of the same type of cartridge through RA's gun so she could compare the markings made on those rounds to the marks on the unfired round from the crime scene. at least that is how I understood her testimony to have been.

Hmm okay I mostly get it, and yes as I predicted I am an idiot and this clarified what I was missing.

I still don’t get why firing the gun is preferable for testing purposes vs. racking it, because I’m sure firing it creates way more force than anyone could possibly create by racking the gun, but whatever, that’s off to the side of where I was confused initially. Thank you!

 

[Deleted member 229974]

I tend to wonder if RA was actually shocked that LE didn’t track him down sooner. If he truly is guilty, he had to feel like things were closing in on him, esp if he realized he left a bullet behind, heard about the video and recording of his voice, talked to LE about being there. At that point a phrase like “why bother, it’s over” would sound more like the end of a long charade was “over”. All just stuff swirling in my brain
JMO

If he did feel like that and allegedly made “60+ confessions”, (talk about overkill, no pun intended) then why didn’t he just plead guilty?

 

[steeltowngirl]

It was 5 years later. How is this supposed to be some indication of guilt? Do you still have your old phone from 5 years ago?

I do have my 5 year old phone. But I get that many people would not. The alarming part here is LE recovered 23 devices from RA’s home, and the 2017 one was not among them. Doesn’t make him instantly guilty, but it adds to some notable red flags.

jmo

 

[FrostedGlass]

To me it really does not matter when or where RA got a blue jacket - since the one LE found in his home did not have anything that connected him to the crime or the kids. Even if they could prove he had a dozen of them - if they can't find them or they find them but none have DNA evidence of the crime -they're all useless to LE imo

3 yrs ago HLN Barbara MacDonald interview; she emphasized THE
32:30 mm
"I know a lot of blue jackets have been turned into law enforcement
they tell me they don't have the jacket but they've had a lot of people turn in blue jackets"

 

[m00c0w]

If he did feel like that and allegedly made “60+ confessions”, (talk about overkill, no pun intended) then why didn’t he just plead guilty?

It sounds like he perhaps wanted to, but was talked out of it by his wife or lawyers or both.

JMO

 

[ClearAhead]

It really sounds like an incredibly stupid mistake. I definitely don't see anything nefarious going on. This was a massive, sprawling investigation, and those early days and weeks would have absolutely overwhelmed any police department, let alone a small one (despite outside assistance).

Thank God for Kathy Shank!

I agree, just too much happening, not enough time, media descending, overwhelmed with thousands of tips, shortage of resources, pulling in other LE from other counties results in a chaotic situations, that’s when mistakes happen.

I didn’t notice it recently mentioned but I recall DD had written a note for LE to take further action to identify the 3 girls RA had sighted. This was recorded on the bottom of the tip. When that confirmation occurred I wouldn’t doubt ‘cleared’ was written. It likely was the same person who condensed Richard Allen of Whiteman Dr into Richard Whiteman. MOO

 

[ClearAhead]

3 yrs ago HLN Barbara MacDonald interview; she emphasized THE
32:30 mm
"I know a lot of blue jackets have been turned into law enforcement
they tell me they don't have the jacket but they've had a lot of people turn in blue jackets"

People attempting to cash in on the reward? It may’ve been determined all the other blue jackets were manufactured after 2017. LE never said.

 

[photographer4]

Well, they do show he wears that style of clothing, both because that is in his wardrobe, but also by his own admission of what he was wearing that day.

Sure. But imo, not that unusual for a man to own a dark black or blue jacket in any particular brand... they seem fairly common. In the absence of anything significant that ties his jacket to the kids or the crime... then its just a jacket imo. I was really hoping that LE would have some sort of DNA link there but without it, that is just another jacket imo.....

 

[iamshadow21]

O/T for those who might want to know, we just got JUSTICE for Quinton! Guilty on all nineteen charges!