Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #204

[JenniD]

I live in Indiana - I believe there are many more than 2 that sell Carhartt from what I have seen around.

There is a QC supply store in Delphi. They carry farm supplies and outerwear including carhart jackets per their website

 

[FrostedGlass]

I checked the CCS for updates and found the judge's entries kind of interesting. I don't recall ever seeing them done this way. The first entry is how it appears in mycase, I reformatted the rest for easier reading. All the names are the same on each entry so I edited them out for space. If copies of her actual orders are public, I hope someone will share them.

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

08C01-2210-MR-000001

Order Issued Daily Order for October 14, 2024. Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Noticed: McLeland, Nicholas Charles Noticed: Baldwin, Andrew Joseph Noticed: Rozzi, Bradley Anthony Noticed: Luttrull, James David JR Noticed: Diener, Stacey Lynn Noticed: Auger, Jennifer Jones Order Signed: 10/14/2024​

[td]

10/24/2024​

[/td]​

10/24/2024: Order Issued
Daily Order for October 15, 2024.
Order Signed:10/15/2024

10/24/2024: Order Issued
Daily Order for October 18, 2024.
Order Signed:10/18/2024

10/24/2024: Order Issued
Daily Order for October 19, 2024.
Order Signed:10/19/2024

10/24/2024: Order Issued
Daily Order for October 21, 2024.
Order Signed:10/24/2024

10/24/2024: Order Issued
Daily Order for October 22, 2024.
Order Signed:10/22/2024

10/24/2024: Order Issued
Daily Order for October 23, 2024.
Order Signed:10/23/2024

10/24/2024: Order Issued
Order re: Pending Motions.
Order Signed:10/17/2024

 

[ClearAhead]

IIRC, isn't Rozzi also supposed to be back on this morning with his photo exhibits marked for all the jurors + alternates? Or did he get that finally sorted out yesterday evening?

Yes that’s right, hope he got his abc’s figure out lol!

 

[Cyber sleuth]

I also feel he has a thing for confidence, power, control. The gun & moving them off the bridge was the control. Not needed at all, he could have killed them both in under a minute right there & likely slipped away unnoticed with all other events being the same. Getting away led to confidence & possible toying with police (coming forward, giving them his phone).

RSBM
He seeked power and control, terrorizing and murder of two girls. Maybe each represents a female in his life.
If only one was the target he could have killed the unnecessary one immediately under the bridge out of sight but he exerted his fantasy over both.
I also wonder how much of the SA component required 2 victims. ( ugh)
I also wonder if he purposefully left the bullet and how this played into the whole purpose of his horrid act. Seems crazy but exactly the type of power seeking trip RA was on.
All speculation

 

[ClearAhead]

At 2:32 p.m.
Libby's phone ceases movement, according to the Apple Health Data on her cellphone.
Would an Apple Health Data recording, fast or slow heart rate, or when heart stopped beating?

You’re probably thinking of an Apple Watch. A cellphone can’t collect heart rate data without being held up against one’s body. MOO

 

[m00c0w]

Not sure I understand that in relation to the point I was making.

I am pointing out that if experts under controlled blind test conditions cannot consistently identify bullets ejected from RA’s Sig from bullets ejected from other Sigs then it invalidates any inference that these experts can definitively say that the bullet found at the crime scene had to come from RA’s gun with any degree of scientific certainty.

RSBM for focus

My point is that even if they can't narrow it down specifically to RA's P226, they still have .40 S&W ammunition that was cycled through a P226, that was found between the bodies of two murdered girls. If that was all the state had, I agree that it would be bad. However:

- RA put himself at the location, at times that would allow him to commit the murders.
- RA has no alibi for the time of the murders.
- Video from the HH corroborated his timeline.
- RA's build is consistent with the build of BG in the video.
- Eyewitness testimony (the girls) corroborates RA's timeline, and individuals that he states he saw state they saw only one man.
- At the time RA would have been at the MHB, BB saw a man on the MHB. This is the only man she saw.
- The girls and BB both confirm the man they saw was the man in LG's video.
- RA told police that he was on his phone that day, looking at stock tickers. TL testified that there is no evidence he had his phone with him that day.
- An un-weathered, unfired cartridge was found between the bodies of the girls. This round was found to have at least been cycled through a P226, if not RA's specific P226.
- When shown the screen capture of BG and asked if that was him, RA responds that it's not him if that was from one of the girls' phones.
- When told he could seek reimbursement for damages conducted during the search warrant, he stated "It doesn't matter, it's over."
- When asked if he wanted to see his wife, he stated "It doesn't matter, it's over."
- Multiple other individuals were investigated and ultimately cleared.
- RA apparently confessed that he killed the girls with a box cutter, which was not even a police theory at the time. The ME did further tests and determined that the wounds were consistent with those from a box cutter.

And we're only halfway through the state's case, by my calculations.

Again, even if the scope of ammunition was widened to Sig Sauer P226s chambered in .40 S&W, that's still a huge fact the defense will have to overcome coupled with everything else.

All my opinion.

 

[INfisherman]

It's good to see another Indiana resident here; I'm particularly interested in your opinion.
Considering the expert who testified about the markings:
Do you think the fact that she worked for ISP could have influenced her subjective opinion? Or even that of her superior?

Thanks FG. Could? Possibly. Do I think it did? Nope.

Why do I feel that way? Her confidence & detailed answers & track record. Also, I was a dumb person when I was younger - was an irresponsible driver & have more than my share of experiences with LEO (patrolmen). Based on those past experiences I tend to think the likelihood of bad apples in LE come from that pool of LEO (patrolmen) versus the "white collar" police such as detectives, investigators & lab employees.

TLDR

I was pulled over once when I was 20 by an officer I’d passed going into town (he had someone pulled over). Mental note was made, as I was going to be coming back from town later. Coming back from town, I set my cruise on 54 (limit was 55). We pass one another going opposite directions. As I’m approaching my destination, I look up in my rear view mirror & see head lights racing up behind me about 1/4-1/2 mile away. I know who it is.

He starts tailgating me & as soon as I signal to turn into my destination, he lights me up. I was livid - I knew I hadn’t done anything wrong. Claims I was doing 70. I told him he was full of fecal matter. The traffic stop led to him finding out I’d done something else illegal & I was arrested.

On the way to jail I was telling him he knew I wasn’t doing 70 & he tells me his speedo was recently calibrated & more bovine fecal matter & that I also had a broken tail light (more bovine fecal matter). So I said, "Ok deputy Fife, I see where you’re going with this."

While waiting to be booked, he comes up and uncuffs me from the bench & tells me he can drop my charges if I talk to him for a minute. He takes me down a hallway with office doors on each side but no lighting & tells me he knows I’m on some type of drugs (I wasn’t) & wants me to give him names of drug dealers & he’ll drop the charges. I told him I don’t see any paperwork for me to sign, he’s not a prosecutor & cannot do that & I wasn’t a snitch. Take me back and book me & leave me alone. I also informed him the prosecutor’s office would hear about all of the events from that night, which they did the following Monday morning.

Assistant prosecutor told me & my dad they’d had other similar complaints against that officer. I was approved for a diversion & all charges dropped. I believe said officer ended up getting fired a few years later.

Personally, I am wary around LEO & watch them carefully but I don’t fear them or avoid them by any means. However, when it comes to detectives & folks who are after the true bad apples, I tend to think they’re a little more grounded. I’m not saying ALL are - a few bad apples everywhere, not just in LE or CJS either.

I’ve personally seen things related to safety of motor vehicle components swept under the rug & lied about. It’s everywhere unfortunately.

ETA JMO & opinion on forensics expert & posted speed limit

Also ETA I’m human & will continue to make mistakes but as far as legal mistakes, I’ve grown up (somewhat) & pretty much learned my lessons.

 

[SeattleStew]

More than two hours since court started today...and nothing has been reported out yet? Please tell me I'm wrong.

 

[Bbgiraffe]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed for personalizing>


I am interested to hear the defense ballistics or firearm expert testify on the matter of identifying the bullet. Hope they have a good one to refute the state's expert. If I was them I would have tried to get an independent autopsy also to determine their take on whether 2 knives were used or not.

Do we have the full witness list anywhere? I haven't managed to find it anywhere but im sure I'm overlooking it.

 

[BUF]

WISHTV update…

The state called Indiana State Police Lt. Jerry Holeman to the stand. He interviewed Richard Allen on Oct. 26, 2022.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 8 live blog

The trial of Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen continues Saturday. Follow WISH-TV's live blog for updates.

www.wishtv.com

 

[AugustWest]

I am interested to hear the defense ballistics or firearm expert testify on the matter of identifying the bullet. Hope they have a good one to refute the state's expert. If I was them I would have tried to get an independent autopsy also to determine their take on whether 2 knives were used or not.

Do we have the full witness list anywhere? I haven't managed to find it anywhere but im sure I'm overlooking it.

Not to be insensitive, but any autopsy five years later would have been less than ideal, since the girls would have been buried for a substantial amount of time.

 

[Bbgiraffe]

Not to be insensitive, but any autopsy five years later would have been less than ideal, since the girls would have been buried for a substantial amount of time.

Well I know sometimes in trials the defense will have another medical examiner review the autopsy results and photos and everything i guess that's what I meant more so than exhuming the bodies and doing a 2nd full autopsy.

 

[SeattleStew]

WISHTV update…

The state called Indiana State Police Lt. Jerry Holeman to the stand. He interviewed Richard Allen on Oct. 26, 2022.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 8 live blog

The trial of Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen continues Saturday. Follow WISH-TV's live blog for updates.

www.wishtv.com

Is Allen speaking of himself in the third person here, or do we think this is an error in reporting?


"Allen, at one point, reportedly told Holeman during the interview, “What kind of good person would kill two girls?”


Holeman said during the end of the interview, he told Allen he “thought he did it.”


Allen replied, “Then take all of your evidence and arrest him already.”"

 

[Bergmann]

I am interested to hear the defense ballistics or firearm expert testify on the matter of identifying the bullet. Hope they have a good one to refute the state's expert.

Why would they want to refute the state's firearms expert who conceded three vital thing if the jury were paying attention (as in there were hours of testimony to test their concentration levels).

1. 'I cycled the bullets through his gun and the marks were insufficient for comparison' - think about what she has just said for a second - just cycling means they can't be compared for identification purposes!

2. The expert then had to compare fired rounds vs an ejected round - the methodology of which I expect to be criticized and is easy to be rebutted as flawed by not comparing like for like (because she said she couldn't, see point 1)

3. The expert conceded that although she felt she could identify the bullet as being ejected through RA's gun (which is questionable again because she said cycling bullets did not leave sufficient marks), that she could not rule out other guns!!! So basically she's saying it could have come from RA's gun or any other gun.

The jury has heard all these things. I anticipate that the defense will remind the jury in closing.

IMO there is a country mile of reasonable doubt in the state's firearm testimony. YMMV.

 

[shonyakay]

Is Allen speaking of himself in the third person here, or do we think this is an error in reporting?


"Allen, at one point, reportedly told Holeman during the interview, “What kind of good person would kill two girls?”


Holeman said during the end of the interview, he told Allen he “thought he did it.”


Allen replied, “Then take all of your evidence and arrest him already.”"

IIRC, Holeman made a comment to the gist of he didn't think RA was a bad guy and that was RA's response to that.

 

[mrjitty]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>

IMO this is the fallacy of the D case as presented. They claim both that there is no evidence against RA, but also require highly implausible theories and speculation to explain so many points of evidence

Like a 4.30 am murder is a heavy lift alone, but they also require multiple killers, framing by a LEO replacing the bullet (even though it's junk science), the witness SC lying, the LEOs being corrupt and destroying the key evidence etc etc etc

And even then, you still need to believe RA arrived at 12.00 and met 3 girls no one has ever identified!

 

[BUF]

Here’s another report from this morning

https://fox59.com/news/delphi-trial-isp-lt-recounts-richard-allens-arrest-interviews/

 

[m00c0w]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>

IMO this is the fallacy of the D case as presented. They claim both that there is no evidence against RA, but also require highly implausible theories and speculation to explain so many points of evidence

Like a 4.30 am murder is a heavy lift alone, but they also require multiple killers, framing by a LEO replacing the bullet (even though it's junk science), the witness SC lying, the LEOs being corrupt and destroying the key evidence etc etc etc

And even then, you still need to believe RA arrived at 12.00 and met 3 girls no one has ever identified!

At this point, RA is rivaling Scott Peterson for unluckiest man in the world with all of these sheer coincidences that just happen to point to his guilt.

 

[mrjitty]

Randomly this morning I remembered the time Motta and other defence lawyers promoted the fund raiser for the accused child killer on the girls hashtag. I hope when this trial is over, there is some kind of review and accountability.

IMO

 

[WildHuncher]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed for personalizing>


The cartridge evidence is a brick. The overview of lines of evidence against RA is a wall that the brick fits into very neatly. The individual bricks give solidity to the wall. At some tipping point, the wall itself lends strength to individual bricks. It is in their favor that they are part of such a structure.

That cartridge shouldn’t be there at all. It shouldn’t match the caliber of RA’s gun. The dents shouldn’t match those produced by RA’s gun. The testing may have left the defense a door of escape from the seeming match. But there shouldn’t be even the appearance of a match. And this match is part of a pattern, the wall.

When the prosecution makes a case with parts that fit together to tell an understandable and believable story, it behooves the defense to tell a plausible story of their own. Make a new wall, or perhaps demolish the prosecution’s wall. Quibbling one brick at a time does not explain why there’s a wall. If you can’t build a wall of your own and can’t demolish the existing one, you have not offered a reasonable doubt to the jury.