Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #204

[tlcya]

We've heard a number of things about KA's whereabouts but many cannot be linked here. So Murder Sheet memory and notes as to what they heard the witness testify to as told to the witness by RA is all we have. I am hesitant to believe RA. JMO

So for me, I still don't know the true answer to the question where was KA that day. We cannot sleuth her as she is not accused of any wrong doing.

My only reason for wanting to know about her whereabouts that day has everything to do with understanding what was happening in RA's mind and life that day and whether KA was around or not as it could affect how RA decided to go about his day.

 

[WildHuncher]

Have you voted in the Websleuths poll?
So far, for today, the results are
Guilty 71.7%
Not Guilty 4.0%
I don't know 24.2
CLICK HERE to take the poll

I just voted. It’s big for “guilty,” which I view as good. But it only takes one “I don’t know” juror out of 12 to get a mistrial. It’s better than 11 to 1 against “not guilty” but nothing close to that against “I don’t know.”

Not good.

 

[MassGuy]

Info from Fox 59 reporters on the firearms testimony:

She first analyzed the round on Feb. 17, 2017—three days after the girls were found dead. Her toolmark analysis came after DNA and fingerprint analysis on the cartridge.

She called herself a “DNA and fingerprint destroyer,” saying that DNA and fingerprint analysis must come first because of the process.

Oberg testified that she saw no corrosive evidence to indicate the unspent round had been out in the weather for a long period of time. She said it was in “good condition” and “non-remarkable.” It was much like the thousands of rounds she’s seen in various conditions throughout her career.

She saw three possible ejector marks and three possible extractor marks on the cartridge and showed jurors photographs of the marks.

Before Oberg progressed much further in her testimony, the defense asked for a break in the proceedings, which Judge Fran Gull granted.

Source: https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delp...toolmark-methodology-unspent-bullet-evidence/

The date is very helpful to the prosecution in destroying the narrative that the cartridge was swapped out, as there was no suspect when this testing was done.

It would be tremendously helpful if she had tested other firearms in this investigation, those belonging to potential suspects.

 

[iamshadow21]

Info from Fox 59 reporters on the firearms testimony:

She first analyzed the round on Feb. 17, 2017—three days after the girls were found dead. Her toolmark analysis came after DNA and fingerprint analysis on the cartridge.

She called herself a “DNA and fingerprint destroyer,” saying that DNA and fingerprint analysis must come first because of the process.

Oberg testified that she saw no corrosive evidence to indicate the unspent round had been out in the weather for a long period of time. She said it was in “good condition” and “non-remarkable.” It was much like the thousands of rounds she’s seen in various conditions throughout her career.

She saw three possible ejector marks and three possible extractor marks on the cartridge and showed jurors photographs of the marks.

Before Oberg progressed much further in her testimony, the defense asked for a break in the proceedings, which Judge Fran Gull granted.

Source: https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delp...toolmark-methodology-unspent-bullet-evidence/

So there it is. So much for 'no testing'. Three days after the crime she was working on it, and she got it AFTER fingerprint and DNA had already gone through their paces with it.

MOO

 

[Arkay]

I just voted. It’s big for “guilty,” which I view as good. But it only takes one “I don’t know” juror out of 12 to get a mistrial. It’s better than 11 to 1 against “not guilty” but nothing close to that against “I don’t know.”

Not good.

That’s true.

We are on the outside looking in. Hopefully the jurors, on the inside looking out, will have a more clear picture than we have.

Today’s poll here has risen on “guilty” since yesterday’s poll. We can only guess if the jury is being persuaded the same way as more evidence is unveiled.

JMO

 

[wtiger]

if the jury instructions are properly understood and applied here - this guy is walking free all day long....
sadly the jury instructions are rarely applied properly imho......so it's back to everything is possible here

 

[photographer4]

Have you voted in the Websleuths poll?
So far, for today, the results are
Guilty 71.7%
Not Guilty 4.0%
I don't know 24.2
CLICK HERE to take the poll

I was just wondering - how will WS be using the results from the poll and any discussion about it? Ty in advance.

 

[ClearAhead]

We've heard a number of things about KA's whereabouts but many cannot be linked here. So Murder Sheet memory and notes as to what they heard the witness testify to as told to the witness by RA is all we have. I am hesitant to believe RA. JMO

So for me, I still don't know the true answer to the question where was KA that day. We cannot sleuth her as she is not accused of any wrong doing.

My only reason for wanting to know about her whereabouts that day has everything to do with understanding what was happening in RA's mind and life that day and whether KA was around or not as it could affect how RA decided to go about his day.

Both KA and RA’s mother will testify according to the Stipulation agreement while being allowed to observe the trial, posted a day or two ago. No doubt their testimony will involve their whereabouts including that of RA on that Feb day. I agree it’s a very important detail, especially if RA was not truthful. JMO

 

[Bbgiraffe]

Both KA and RA’s mother will testify according to the Stipulation agreement they be allowed to observe the trial, posted a day or two ago. No doubt their testimony will involve their whereabouts including that of RA on that Feb day. I agree it’s a very important detail, especially if RA was not truthful. JMO

I read that RA said that he visited his mom and then went home to maybe grab a jacket and head to the trail. I don't know if that's accurate but it will be interesting to find out if he did visit his mother what time he left there in relation to what time he says he arrived at the trail.

For example if he is now claiming he was at the trail from 12:30-1:30 instead of from 1:30-3:30 yet he would have still been at or commuting from his mother's house that would blow a big hole in his story. I don't put it past someone to lie on the stand though to "save" her son. I don't know if there would be any way for the prosecution to prove what time he actually left his mother's home if that's where he was that day I am interested to learn more about their relationship. Was it good? MOO.

 

[FrostedGlass]

That’s true.

We are on the outside looking in. Hopefully the jurors, on the inside looking out, will have a more clear picture than we have.

Today’s poll here has risen on “guilty” since yesterday’s poll. We can only guess if the jury is being persuaded the same way as more evidence is unveiled.

JMO

Do you have the number of voters from yesterday's poll to compare with today's?
I always like to know how many voted.

 

[photographer4]

BBM

Can you please cite the relevant portion you are referring to?

I don't have the time to go back and find it so I've edited the post. Cheers.

 

[mom2chloe]

I live in Indiana - I believe there are many more than 2 that sell Carhartt from what I have seen around.

They sell them at Tractor Supply and Rural King too. I bet you have many of those in Indiana as well.

 

[ClearAhead]

So there it is. So much for 'no testing'. Three days after the crime she was working on it, and she got it AFTER fingerprint and DNA had already gone through their paces with it.

MOO

I don’t understand the purpose for all the false rumours being spread pretrial.

Another I recall was the bullet only being found several days following the discovery of the bodies, the insinuation being it was planted. Maybe anybody who got caught up in this nonsense might want to rethink the integrity of their sources! MOO

 

[MassGuy]

Ok, this is what I was hoping for.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1849854503249641830

 

[MrsWatson]

Walmart sells Carhart jackets

Robot or human?

www.walmart.com

 

[Deleted member 296739]

They sell them at Tractor Supply and Rural King too. I bet you have many of those in Indiana as well.

Amazon does too…

 

[ClearAhead]

I read that RA said that he visited his mom and then went home to maybe grab a jacket and head to the trail. I don't know if that's accurate but it will be interesting to find out if he did visit his mother what time he left there in relation to what time he says he arrived at the trail.

For example if he is now claiming he was at the trail from 12:30-1:30 instead of from 1:30-3:30 yet he would have still been at or commuting from his mother's house that would blow a big hole in his story. I don't put it past someone to lie on the stand though to "save" her son. I don't know if there would be any way for the prosecution to prove what time he actually left his mother's home if that's where he was that day I am interested to learn more about their relationship. Was it good? MOO.

I’m probably overly optimistic since too much time had passed but wouldn’t it be great if traffic cams from Feb/17 were still available in 2022 with CCTV of the traffic between Delphi and Peru?

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

N

Post in thread 'Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #203'

Oct 25, 2024

In regard to understanding what's going on in the courtroom:
Yemelyan's post that you quoted was from this linked article. I'd like your opinion on how you think the jury may have reacted to this comment from the article. Do you think they will understand what impeachment means and why the judge thought that was where Rozzi was going?
(snip)
"Judge Fran Gull stepped in and said to Rozzi, “If you’re going to impeach him, impeach him properly.”"

Delphi Murders trial: Day 6 live blog

Delphi Murders trial continues with testimony from Dr. Roland Kohr and Sarah Carbaugh. Allen accused of murdering Abby Williams and Libby German.

www.wishtv.com

I think a lot of it depends on her tone...

• NoSpoonFeeding

• 

@NoSpoonFeeding I have linked your post from the last thread, as I failed to reply before the change to the current thread.

First, I wanted to clarify that Indiana allows jurors to discuss the case amongst themselves prior to deliberation.


See Indiana Jury Rule 20: Indiana Jury Rules

Second, I am confused about the "procedure" you speak of regarding impeachment. Impeachment, in the sense of witness impeachment, means discrediting a witness by use of other contradictory evidence. The procedure usually happens through cross-examination of the witness. No other procedure is needed.

See: impeachment of a witness.

See also: Rule 607. Who May Impeach a Witness

Third, what a judge has stated in court is on the record, has not been stricken (no one objects to what the judge has said; it is not removed from the transcript), and the record will be provided to the jury. What weight they will give to that statement, who knows?

Thanks for responding!

In this case, in my opinion, the judge's comments ("if you're going to impeach him, impeach him") meant Rossi needed to do a "proper impeachement", get the prior statements admitted and then confront the witness, rather than continue questioning him to get him to admit to prior statements.
The witness in this case is LE, confrontation with the evidence and a declaratory statement of what it shows, is common.
I could have said "process" instead of "proceedure".

Submitting a question to the judge about her comment, I could see a juror doing that. As I said, could or would she address it, not necessary, she can ignore it or address it.

I didn't know Indiana juries could discuss prior to deliberation. The question was, what would the jury make of the judge's comment, would they understand what impeachment meant, what she meant. Not hearing her speak gives no way to tell if the jury could then be confused about that LE witness or think the judge impatient or mad at the defense, etc.

 

[ClearAhead]

Delphi Murders trial: Day 7 live blog

INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) — Friday is the seventh day of testimonies in the trial of Delphi Murders suspect Richard Allen at the Carroll County Courthouse in Delphi. Allen, 52, is charged with murder and murder while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping in the deaths of 13-year-old Abigail...

www.wishtv.com

Obergt shows the jury a powerpoint presentation that came to the conclusion that the gun collected from Allen’s home in 2022 had indeed cycled the cartridge that was found near the bodies of Libby and Abby.

Obergt tested another cartridge with the gun found in Allen’s home to see if the tool marks would match.

She showed the jury five images of the test cartridge compared to the cartridge at the scene. She told the jury that several marks were in agreement.

Obergt testified that the cartridge at the scene had NOT been fired, but that the test cartridge HAD been fired. She told the jury there was research to back up doing it that way.

 

[TristanP]

I tend to agree with this, if KA knew indeed knew about his self report, by meeting at the parking lot RA could drive the narrative of how that self report went down however he wanted.

From what I understand, Dulin called RA, said he’d like to meet with him, RA said he was on his was to the grocery store, and Dulin said he would meet him there.

I really don’t think there’s any secret shady circumstances about this meeting at all. It was most convenient for the both of them and that’s all.