Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #204

[ClearAhead]

3:30 am? Do bar close at 2:00am in indiana?

So where was he? I wonder what he was up to that night/morning.

Causing some sort of domestic incident in the home? Doubtful the wife would’ve called LE had he home inebriated and went straight to bed to sleep it off. MOO

 

[photographer4]

Hidden True Crime reported that a photo of all the phones collected ftom the office (ETA, it appears there may have been other phones in the house) was shown, and she and another person each separately counted 15 phones. Including flip phones. She also states the officer's testimony as "there was only one phone we did not recover, and it was the phone from 2017".
Hidden True Crime on YT, 1 hr, 43 mins.

ETA Suggests they explicitly investigated each phone and when it had been in use/by whom.

JMO

Wondering - could LE have contacted carriers to find out if the number he reported to DD when they originally met was one under his name / account? Could they show it ever was connected to him at all? If not, then I would wonder why he was using it when he met with DD that day. Not moo... another question. Ty in advance.

 

[MassGuy]

Rozzi calls into question the definition of “sufficient agreement” between the marks on the cartridge from the crime scene and the test cartridge. Rozzi reads definitions of “sufficient.”

Oberg tells the jury that the word means something different in her industry. Rozzi references the video and says it does not reference extractors or ejectors. He asks Oberg if she knows how many gun manufacturers there are in the U.S. Oberg responds that she doesn’t want to guess that there is “black market stuff going on.”

Rozzi asks Oberg, “your current job has nothing to do with firearms, does it?” She responds “it does not.” Oberg says she works in healthcare data now.

Oberg tells the jury she focused on identification, exclusion and if a particular firearm interacted with a projectile (bullet). She says “I did not come to an incorrect conclusion.”

Delphi Murders trial: Day 7 live blog

INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) — Friday is the seventh day of testimonies in the trial of Delphi Murders suspect Richard Allen at the Carroll County Courthouse in Delphi. Allen, 52, is charged with murder and murder while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping in the deaths of 13-year-old Abigail...

www.wishtv.com

 

[Slawsb]

I'm sure that this has been asked, but did RA give police his jacket? I mean, if he is innocent, turn over the jacket. If he isn't, he would have gotten rid of the jacket. This guy is not rich. He's not just going to discard this jacket.

JMO.

Of course he would if it was covered in DNA...
They aren't that expensive

 

[mrjitty]

Similar to fingerprints. You don’t put the collected fingerprint on someone’s finger to see if it matches.

JMO

i love this so much i am going to use it IRL!

 

[Arkay]

Just want to say thanks to so many here that are knowledgeable about areas that are completely outside of my lane.

I know how to use my devices, but don’t know anything about the internal tech stuff.

I know nothing about guns nor ammunition, nor do I care to, but I do understand how things can match.

I’ve also never heard of a Carhartt jacket until this case. If they’re popular in NYC then I’m unaware. No one in my social or family circles wears one.

It’s been an education. I tend to skim through those posts but I do glean a lot.

My main focus is of course how the jacket, bullet and phone line up to show that RA is BG. In my opinion, based on how well-versed so many of you are, and based on LE info, I still believe there’s a giant, pulsating arrow pointing straight at RA.

 

[photographer4]

Where is this younger guy as I have seen zero proof of his existence?

Therein lies the problem to me. We talk a lot about believing what RA says when he "confesses" but then why don't we believe the witnesses when they describe a younger man, a taller man, puffy hair man, a man in tan pants... etc etc etc??? MOOOO

 

[Inthedetails]

There has been a lot of consternation about the timeline and how the prosecution's timeline can't possibly work. I've gone through and compiled a chronological sequence of events based on the last few days of trial. None of this is from the PCA or anywhere but sworn trial testimony:

1326 - Photo of a park bench is taken by the 3 girls while walking from MHB to Freedom Bridge. They report seeing BG later, near Freedom Bridge, walking towards MHB with a purpose (1)
1327 - Vehicle consistent with RA's vehicle seen on HH camera traveling west on 300N (4)
1338 - LG calls DG, 35 second phone call (2)
1341 - Selfie of LG and AW posted on snapchat on the way to MHB (2)(3)
1343 - Another selfie of LG and AW posted on snapchat on the way to MHB (2)(3)
1346 - BB's car is seen on the HH camera heading back towards the trails. BB states that when she returned to the trails, she saw BG on the first platform of the bridge. (1)
1349 - HH video shows KG going to drop off girls (1)
1405 - LG posts photo of MHB on Snapchat (2)
1407 - Photo of AW crossing the bridge posted on Snapchat (2)
1413 - Video of BG taken by LG (1)(3)
1414 - Attempt to unlock LG's phone (3)
1418 - BB captured traveling west on 300N via HH camera (1)
1432 - Last recorded phone movement (2)(3)
1556 - SC captured traveling east on 300N via HH camera (1)

Sources:
(1) - https://www.wane.com/top-stories/delphi-native-reflects-on-abby-libbys-legacy-in-town/
(2) - A call, Snapchat photos, the infamous video: Delphi trial offers timeline of girls' activities
(3) - Delphi Murders Trial: Day 5 live blog
(4) - Delphi Murders trial: Day 6 live blog

Excellent!! Thank you for compiling this. I wish we could pin it.

jmo

 

[Ravenmoon]

Not aimed at you in any way @MollyDDD but how the heck would we KNOW that his mother / wife / lawyers told him to plead not guilty?? This allegation would constitute professional misconduct on the part of his lawyers if it were proven to be true, no? Not an opinion - I'm asking - how do we know, and if it could be proven, would it be professional misconduct???

I don't think anyone said that he was told not to plead guilty.

He wanted to tell his mother and his wife from his own mouth that he was guilty. The idea was that if he took responsibility for his actions he might then have a chance to be with them in the afterlife.

His wife hung up on him with his psychiatrist present. His mother told him to stop confessing because he was being brainwashed and it wasn't true.

JMO, but if the 2 people that mean more to him then all others would have said that they understood and still loved him, this trial would not be happening today.


AJMO

 

[MassGuy]

Wondering - could LE have contacted carriers to find out if the number he reported to DD when they originally met was one under his name / account? Could they show it ever was connected to him at all? If not, then I would wonder why he was using it when he met with DD that day. Not moo... another question. Ty in advance.

Yes, the carrier would have that data. They had his phone number to work with, but also the specific identification numbers of the device (that’s what DD was checking on his phone).

I believe they could then subpoena his phone company and figure out exactly when he changed devices.

 

[mrjitty]

Key questions. What did he say happened to that phone? When did he get rid of that phone? The latter will have an answer I'm sure, as his provider would know.

i wonder how the D intend to get an explanation into evidence if RA does not testify?

 

[ClearAhead]

To me, since none of those phones linked RA to the kids or the crimes, they're irrelevant to the case at hand imo. I don't care when or where they came from or why. Just moo.

Not irrelevant at all considering the multiple choice of times RA has claimed he was at the trails. Was it 1:00 to 3:00pm, or 1:30 to 3:30pm or noon to 1:30pm or something to 2:15pm? The cellphone would’ve been the simplest means he had of proving the time. By discarding the cellphone, it appears he’s destroying evidence that would otherwise incriminate him. MOO

 

[Ravenmoon]

Therein lies the problem to me. We talk a lot about believing what RA says when he "confesses" but then why don't we believe the witnesses when they describe a younger man, a taller man, puffy hair man, a man in tan pants... etc etc etc??? MOOOO

They are not on trial.
They saw him briefly and in passing.

Admitting that he committed murder is not on the same spectrum as details from eyewitnesses that have done absolutely nothing wrong IMO

 

[Bbgiraffe]

Therein lies the problem to me. We talk a lot about believing what RA says when he "confesses" but then why don't we believe the witnesses when they describe a younger man, a taller man, puffy hair man, a man in tan pants... etc etc etc??? MOOOO

The last stranger you walked by committed a crime. Describe them accurately even though you barely noticed them because you weren't paying close attention since you didn't know that later this person would commit a crime.

It is much more important that the witnesses only saw one other person there. The person who said he was there. Richard Allen.

 

[Salah11]

Therein lies the problem to me. We talk a lot about believing what RA says when he "confesses" but then why don't we believe the witnesses when they describe a younger man, a taller man, puffy hair man, a man in tan pants... etc etc etc??? MOOOO

Because RA placed himself on the bridge and the people he saw match the people who saw BG.

If there is a mystery man then why have the defense not found this man as LE have done such a poor job?

The logical conclusion is there is no mystery man it’s just these people saw RA not realizing they would have to remember every single detail about him. IMO of course


ETA - spelling

 

[m00c0w]

There has been a lot of consternation about the timeline and how the prosecution's timeline can't possibly work. I've gone through and compiled a chronological sequence of events based on the last few days of trial. None of this is from the PCA or anywhere but sworn trial testimony:

1326 - Photo of a park bench is taken by the 3 girls while walking from MHB to Freedom Bridge. They report seeing BG later, near Freedom Bridge, walking towards MHB with a purpose (1)
1327 - Vehicle consistent with RA's vehicle seen on HH camera traveling west on 300N (4)
1338 - LG calls DG, 35 second phone call (2)
1341 - Selfie of LG and AW posted on snapchat on the way to MHB (2)(3)
1343 - Another selfie of LG and AW posted on snapchat on the way to MHB (2)(3)
1346 - BB's car is seen on the HH camera heading back towards the trails. BB states that when she returned to the trails, she saw BG on the first platform of the bridge. (1)
1349 - HH video shows KG going to drop off girls (1)
1405 - LG posts photo of MHB on Snapchat (2)
1407 - Photo of AW crossing the bridge posted on Snapchat (2)
1413 - Video of BG taken by LG (1)(3)
1414 - Attempt to unlock LG's phone (3)
1418 - BB captured traveling west on 300N via HH camera (1)
1432 - Last recorded phone movement (2)(3)
1556 - SC captured traveling east on 300N via HH camera (1)

Sources:
(1) - https://www.wane.com/top-stories/delphi-native-reflects-on-abby-libbys-legacy-in-town/
(2) - A call, Snapchat photos, the infamous video: Delphi trial offers timeline of girls' activities
(3) - Delphi Murders Trial: Day 5 live blog
(4) - Delphi Murders trial: Day 6 live blog

Using google maps to calculate distances:

The distance from the CPS parking lot to the Freedom Bridge trailhead is approximately 850 feet. At 3mph (average walking speed for an adult), it would take approximately 3 minutes and 10 seconds to cover this distance.

The distance from the Freedom Bridge trailhead to the beginning of the MHB is approximately 3,600 feet. At 3mph, it would take approximately 13 minutes and 38 seconds to travel from the Freedom Bridge trailhead to the beginning of the MHB.

If we were validating whether some of this timeline was possible, we would see that it is entirely possible for a subject to reach the MHB from the old CPS building in right around 17 minutes.

Let's assume someone was seen (from the HH) driving towards the CPS building at 1327. Adding a couple of minutes (generous) to park and get out of the car, we have them arriving at the Freedom Bridge trailhead at approximately 1332. They would likely pass a group of girls that were walking towards the Freedom Bridge trailhead.

From Freedom Bridge, they would arrive at the beginning of the MHB at around 1346.

A witness walking from the Mears lot and arriving at the MHB around 1356 might be able to see this person on the MHB. Turning around to go back towards the parking lot, this witness would pass two girls that arrived shortly after 1349, walking towards the MHB.

The timeline is incredibly tight and solid.

All my opinions.

 

[Inthedetails]

She says “I did not come to an incorrect conclusion.”

snipped

Just pausing a moment to appreciate a strong and confident statement like that.

Okay, carry on.

jmo

 

[Warwick7]

The investigation of these brutal murders of 2 amazing young girls infuriates me. I don’t so much have a problem with the crime scene misses, but I REALLY want to know who ‘cleared’ RA and when. Does he have a friend who protected him? It’s a small town and RA knew a lot of people from CVS, billiards, the bar. I don’t think we will know during this trial — the testimony and cross have moved right along past this file. But if I was a family member of AW of LG, or on the jury, the questions and misses around the earliest part of the investigation would haunt me.

That would be extremely risky.
I just can't see RA being "cleared" as a favor. Right now, moo is that who did it thought it was correct.

 

[photographer4]

I’m not who you asked…. But you asked why he didn’t plead guilty. I share the poster’s opinion, his wife didn’t want him to, and it’s documented that she doesn’t believe his confessions. It’s merely my opinion that she would not want him to take a plea.

The psychologist testified that Allen told her he “found God” on March 21, 2023, and shared with her details of his activities on Feb. 13, 2017, the day of the murders, and made a confession to his wife Kathy during a phone call.

Walla shared that after the call Allen said his wife didn’t believe him.

Indiana State Police Detective Brian Harshman testified that he has reviewed 650-670 of Allen’s phone calls during his incarceration covering more than 150 hours.

Harshman said Allen has confessed more than 60 times, most often to his wife and mother, who expressed disbelief, concerns about his mental state or changed the subject.

https://fox59.com/news/detective-testifies-richard-allen-confessed-more-than-60-times-to-delphi-murders/

I think its good they have expressed concerns about his mental state really. Clearly there have been some issues with mental health / medications administered etc... MOOO.

 

[ClearAhead]

<snipped to reply>
I'm still scratching my head that they didn't bag those girls hands and collect evidence from under their nails.

When the ME was on the stand, in one of the photos he mentioned Libby had bags on her hands for that very reason.